Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

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Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    That is just a joke, isn't it? I'm never sure here [face_hypnotized]
  2. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 1
    Thanks for the prompt answer. So, no further X-Wing novels on the horizon... too bad, I would have enjoyed being proven wrong on this.
  3. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    @Darth_Xeres: I thought X-Wing: Mercy Kill was a standalone, and not intended to be the start of a new X-Wing series? As far as I know, there are no further X-Wing novels being planned at the moment. Have I missed something?

    Aaron Allston pitched additional ideas at Celebration VI. Del Rey liked several of them. Considering that Mercy Kill hit the NYT Bestseller List, I wouldn't be surprised to see more X-Wing books.
    Last edited by JediMara77, Nov 17, 2012
  4. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Let's say for a minute, they erase all that has been done in the past 30 years in post EP 6 EU. Personally, my favorite EU characters are Talon Karde, Lowie, Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn, and Gavin Darklighter. Let's say no Solo kids exist, no Skywalker decendants. New Jedi protagonist, human, male or female. The books start back up, nearly everything since the birth of the Solo twins being scrapped... I still know personally that Corran Horn is out there somewhere, being a Jedi, or Corsec officer, or Rogue Pilot. Kyle Katarn is still skulking around being a soldier/spy. Gavin Darklighter is either a pilot or sitting on a moisture vaporator farm on Tattoine. Chances are if they keep some of the same authors, and let's face it. Allston has been writing Star Wars for both Bantam and Del Rey. He will bring his beloved characters back into the EU fold with the beauty of being able to rewrite their histories or keep them the same.

    Needless to say, the EU will survive as will all the beloved characters, some may even be brought back. However the things that won't survive are events. Which do we love more? The characters? Or the events?
  5. Golden Jedi Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    All right, explain this then, Darth Xeres: If the Legacy Era and other major events in the EU are going to conflict so much with the ST, then why is it that another Legacy novel is coming out next year in July, 2013? Why create this new novel only to have the events in it scrapped by the ST two years later? More significantly, if you look at Wookieepedia, there are Legacy Era events that take place 40-45 years after the Battle of Yavin, and then 130 years or more ABY. The ST, according to at least one source from Lucasfilm, will take place 50 or more years ABY, during a time that the Legacy Era novels haven't touched.

    Also, if you look back to the time between 1983 and 1999, before the prequels came out, you can see that very few books (if any) were written that take place during the time of Episodes I, II, and III. Why is that? Because authors knew that this particular time period would be covered by the movies, so they tried to avoid conflict by not writing stories that took place during that time. Do you see what I'm getting at? There is a pattern of Star Wars authors setting up their stories so that they will not conflict too much with the movies. This is why I am not convinced that the EU is toast.

    I agree that it is not possible to avoid all conflicts with every single event in the EU because there are simply too many novels and comics out there. However, it is very possible and really not that hard to either avoid or resolve perceived conflicts involving MAJOR events in the EU. It just takes some imagination, something which is in no short supply when it comes to the Star Wars universe.
  6. Golden Jedi Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    I'm hungry for Perkins or IHOP all of a sudden.
  7. Golden Jedi Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    This. Marvel and DC have to be rebooted every few years to keep up with the times. Star Wars is timeless. Big difference.
  8. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    For Lucas and Arndt to have to acknowledge the EU in any form would be putting restrictions on what they could do. I for one don't want them to be restricted by pastiche. EU had it's time, it made Lucas some money but now let him get on with the real story without be confined within the walls of what has basically amounted to a bunch of professional fan fiction.

    Lucas used Coruscant because he just so happened to need a name for the capital planet since the original name Had Abbadon no longer fit so he figured what the hell.

    Secura and Vos were no more than extra's who had no effect on the story whatsoever.

    They were just thrown in for fun. Will there be EU stuff in the ST? Possibly, but I would not expect more than we've seen in the PT; a planet name, a reference, a walk thru cameo. But nothing that would need explaining. For instance I don't think they would or should include Mara because Luke and those characters are more than likely to be supporting characters, the Obi Wans and Uncle Owens and Aunt Berus, and having a major character to explain like Mara (especially since she'll be old, a force-user, and most of her adventures done) would take the focus off the new generation. Let it go.
    agentkrycek likes this.
  9. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 1
    JediMara77:

    Thanks for the info. Looks like there's hope for more X-Wing novels after all. :)

    Golden Jedi Knight:


    I can think of several possibilities.

    1) At the time Del Rey planned Crucible and Denning wrote it, they might have had no idea of the coming announcements, and so proceeded on the honest belief that the EU's canon status would remain as it was before. Sort of like a subdivision of a company planning, researching and paying for the creation and production of a new product, unaware that the company's executives are planning sweeping changes that will render the new product, if not worthless, then certainly less valuable than before.

    2) LFL might themselves still be uncertain of what will the exact canon status of the EU vis-à-vis the ST, so they're allowing Del Rey to continue publishing new post-Endor EU novels until they make up their minds.

    3) LFL know they'll scrap at least the post-Endor EU, but are allowing Del Rey to go on publishing novels because they figure that even reduced (because some readers will be wary of purchasing books that might be declared completely non-canon) sales of new post-Endor novels are better than no sales at all.

    4) I've also read speculation that Crucible might be meant to tie up the core post-Endor storyline, and that LFL might have instructed Del Rey not to plan long series set in the post-Endor EU without telling them exactly why, and to focus more on the pre-Endor EU.


    But then there would be the colossal backstory of the EU to address, most notably Han and Leia's three children as well as Luke's wife and child, and all their fates. That's five new major characters in the Big 3's lives, three of whom would be dead by the time the movies started. Not a good/friendly way to begin the ST for viewers who are completely unaware of the EU, IMO.


    I see what you're getting at, but I think there's a big difference between the time Episodes 1-3 and 7-9. With 1-3, I believe it was Lucas himself who early on mandated that stories not be set/refer to the Prequel era, because he planned to film Eps 1-3 eventually. So the EU slate for that era was mostly clear when Lucas did decide to film the PT. However, for the post-Endor era in which Episodes 7-9 will now be set, Lucas issued no such dictate back in the 80s-90s and quite possibly never intended to film/allow others to film Eps 7-9. This paved the way for Zahn to craft the Thrawn Trilogy that was the lynchpin for everything that followed in that era, establishing a continuity full of major events and characters that would IMO inevitably clash with the EU.


    Well, as far as I'm concerned the major events in the post-Endor EU up until the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong War do mostly follow a logical progression that could be integrated into the ST with a minimum of trouble. It is an era that adds to the EU – the New Republic is formed and its governance over the galaxy spreads, Luke founds and builds a new Jedi Order, Han and Leia have three children, Luke marries Mara Jade. I believe movie viewers would be accepting of all these developments without too much trouble.

    But from the start of the YVW, events begin to majorly subtract from the GFFA – the gigantic alien invasion damages/ruins/reshapes countless worlds across the galaxy (including Coruscant itself), Chewbacca and Anakin Solo die, the New Republic is destroyed as the galaxy's major/central political entity. I don't think viewers would enjoy simply being told of all these developments. And the major upheavals continue after the YVW – a crisis involving bug-like aliens, Han and Leia's son kills Luke's wife and is in turn slain by his twin sister, Abeloth and the Keshiri Sith show up and must be dealt with, the Galactic Alliance keeps being shaken… By 50 ABY, there's just too much baggage IMO for the EU to be integrated into the ST.
    Last edited by Darth_Xeres, Nov 18, 2012
  10. GeekFurious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    As with the prequels, Lucas will use what he wants to use and ignore the rest.
  11. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    edit: nevermind
    Last edited by LawJedi, Nov 18, 2012
  12. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3

    Del Ray doesn't publish SW novels because they're considered canonical, so this line of thinking is nonsense.


    While this might be true, I sincerely doubt that any uncertainty on Lucasfilm's part as to the canonical status of the EU had anything whatsoever to do with Del Ray's publishing schedule.


    Although I believe that this scenario is the most likely out of those you've mentioned, I sincerely doubt that money had anything to do with said decision if it was made, because you're not going to have people working for LF who aren't aware of what the relationship between a given franchise and its tie-in media generally is. If the decision was made to end the unique way that SW handles its tie-in media, it was likely made because all involved in making said decision felt it was the best option going forward and didn't drastically disrupt the status quo of how things currently operate.

    I sincerely doubt that Del Ray has given LF this much control over their publishing schedule when it comes to SW.
  13. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Very good speculation here. Personally, I find it hard to believe that LFL would have kept the top professional people in Del Ray in the dark about the sales, though. I think there's been major guidlines all along, the "do-what-you-want-but-don't-kill-Luke" type stuff, that has served as a backdoor if and when the scene changes. We've been told Lucas from the start planned the ST to take place when Luke was over 60. Well, he's that old now. As is Mark Hmaill, incidentally. We know Lucas didn't plan Luke to be married. Well, Luke's wife is dead, she won't be hanging around. I don't think even LFL are entirely sure of whether or not that saves EU - not until all pieces are in place for the ST.

    It would be most unfriendly. I don't think for a second they'll do that. Either they'll reboot, or they'll set the ST so far in the future that no one needs to worry about the EU (more than some familiar family names and something about an Imperial Remnant maybe). Or they let Luke & Han and Leia leave for another dimension in Crucible. A bit like in Star Trek with the alternate universe.

    or they make a partial reboot - 'cos you certainly make good points there :p
  14. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    @Jango_Fett21

    Remember that the authors and LFL have contact with each other - that's made pretty clear in the round-robin interviews that have appeared in late-arc novels of the NJO and LotF series (they're, unfortunately, only in the PB versions of the books - but they are there).

    I don't think that Del Rey is like Marvel, DH or DC - DR probably doesn't have any input into (or even care) what the stories or plotlines are - their job is just to take the authors' manuscripts, get them printed and out to the bookstores. Provided that the MSs come in on time, they're happy. Their switch from epic 9 volume sagas to standalones and trilogies (also don't forget that a new trilogy "Sword of the Jedi" has been announced - and that there is a hyper-secret Paul S. Kemp duology lurking in the wings somewhere) could have had no other influence than that their licence was getting close to its renewal date. A situation than now suits LFL down to the ground.

    So if anyone was going to get a heads-up about anything, it would be the authors IMHO. Rather reminiscent of the Karen Traviss situation re. TCW.
  15. darthzac14 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 3
    I was thinking the same thing. If anything is thrown out we are definitely gonna lose authors just like with her. And considering all the money that people are still putting into these books I see no reason (monetarily, mind you) that Lucasfilm would call for anything to be rendered non-canon. Lucasfilm doesn't care if a movie makes sense or not it's all about that green paper. And about different planes of existence, Star Wars isn't Star Trek.
  16. Dynoblaze Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2010
    star 1
    DC's sales have fallen back to pre New 52 levels. And now it's mostly the people who were already buying their comics before the reboot left buying and they want the old DCU back
  17. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    Lucas and Disney don't give two [Disallowed Word] and a Popsicle if they lose authors. Authors are a dime a dozen and with the exception of a few very big names, work for basically peanuts. The publishing industry follows an outdated business model and print is a dying medium. It doesn't make as much money as people think. They make a little bit of money at first but then sales slow then stop and the books go out-of-print. There are close to fifty Star Wars books out-of-print.

    Yes Lucas has said that he really liked the story line in that one video game (I wanna say shadow of the empire but I don't really know EU) and would have made a movie with that story line, and he did use some things like the name for Coruscant, so he is open to using EU stuff. But he just used that stuff for flavoring. Coruscant was recognizable and popular and the name of a planet doesn't effect the story.

    But do you really think Lucas is gonna be like "Oh I better make sure Luke is married to this Mara girl who I didn't create and not contradict any of their past adventures...oh and I better make sure that this Jedi created by hack writer A and this bounty hunter created by hack writer B are in it because, you know, I said that they were cannon and as everyone knows I never contradict myself or go back on my word. Oh and the New Republic must be fighting the remnants of the Empire and the new Jedi order must be established and have X number of Jedi because thats what a bunch of writers-for-hire said what happened and Disney is gonna make all of it's 4 billion plus more by pleasing those EU fans and not by coming up with something original for the old fans as well as the [Disallowed Word] of new fans they hope to acquire.

    Lucas needs to be free to go in any direction he wants and not be restricted by EU. He may or may not take a piece or two from EU but he will basically burn all of it and I will be poppin bottles of champagne when he does. I can't wait for new Star Wars material from the man who created it. He owes those authors and fans of EU nothing.

    PK Edit: Language
    Last edited by PrincessKenobi, Nov 18, 2012
  18. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Sadly the idea that Del Rey isn't the driving force behind the NJO, Legacy, and so forth is wrong. The Vong Invasion was created by Del Rey's editorial team, they even asked to kill Luke off in Vector Prime, so no... I really don't think Del Rey was given any direction at all by LFL.

    What happens is that books are pitched to Del Rey (for stand alones) or assigned by the Del Rey editorial staff (in the case of the NJO and 9-book series). The only point at which LFL get involved is when they want to kill a movie character. Del Rey's editorial staff are the ones that proposed the Vong Invasion and subsequent story arcs, it wasn't LFL that did those things but Del Rey. Karen Traviss proposed Mara Jade's death, the Del Rey editorial staff proposed killing Luke but were told no and killed Chewie instead, they also were the ones that decided to kill Anakin Solo. If there was ever a point in which I wanted more interference on the part of George Lucas and LFL it was Del Rey's attempt to make the Star Wars universe theirs.

    Bantam, by contrast, was much less dictatorial in their creation of story arcs...

    It takes on average 2 years for a manuscript to go from acceptance to publication... and I don't know how fast the writers write so I'd guess at least six months between pitch and submission. If I was Del Rey I'd be cursing right now as the books they're publishing until their license is over are all written with the idea that there would be no Episode VII. Their post-ROTJ arcs are the ones most likely to be rendered non-canon in any event.

    Now you might be right in that the authors were warned... as I've pointed out earlier Zahn has never written anything for the Vong War and post NJO time frames. If there was an author that new there was Episode VII waiting in the wings it'd probably be him, but guess what... if they were warned, when? If they were warned a year ago, the books that take that into account won't be published until 1 or 2 years from today. Any warning may also helped to have pushed the Del Rey editors to accept more stand alones and rebellion era stories.

    Zahn always said he was told the books were going to be a bridge between 6-7... a 6.5 if you will, but look at the stories he wrote. He opens and closes the Bantam era of the post-RoTJ EU and ties up a lot of loose threads in the Hand of Thrawn Duology. His subsequent works during the Del Rey era have either all been tying up loose ends with Survivor's Quest, Rebellion Era, or tying into the Prequels.

    I do not expect the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances to appear in the opening crawl or any reference to things like the Second Galactic Civil War or the Yuuzhan Vong invasion in the movies. If it's to be the story of the next generation those new Heroes need to come into the story without a ball and chain of baggage behind them. What's likely to appear are things that are popular and loved by the audiences. Chewie will be there for sure.
    Last edited by stellarmagic01, Nov 18, 2012
  19. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    Chewie will be there for sure.

    I'll second that and drink a bottle of bleach if he's not.
  20. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    That doesn't appear to be the case from the round-robin interview. GL (directly or through LFL) specified No Sith - which is how come we ended up Vonged. They were also going to make Anakin Solo the hero of the arc, but were told to get rid of him; so they had to promote Jacen instead and kill Anakin off as being one Anakin too many. Both of these were due to the prequels coming along.

    Except that we have the Killik Nest sequence appearing fifteen chapters in (while both the Jedi and Jag's forces are occupied with heavy combat situations - and that sequence occupies an entire chapter, whereas it is quite usual to have two or three changes of locale per chapter. We also have the very first mention of Mortis five chapters from the end.

    I think that you maybe discount the Internet too much when refering to 'the audience'. Anyone who googles a character is highly likely to be submerged in a mass of up-to-date EU information from both Wookiepedia and Wikipedia. Just this last 6 weeks, one of our UK broadcast TV companies has re-run both of the movie trilogies on successive Saturday afternoons (in numerical order) - and we usually get one trilogy or another at Xmas etc. as part of our Holiday TV diet.
  21. sashlon1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    I wouldn't be surprised (or bothered) if we see the EU cherry picked. For example, certain characters with very strong canvases (e.g. Thrawn, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, Corran Horn) may appear, but in different circumstances and situations.

    I do feel that as much as many fans (including me) adore certain parts of the EU, many of its facets (Palpy clones, Vong, Caedus) probably would not serve the best interests of making a successful sequel trilogy. Del Rey in particular have clear taken the EU down a particular tangent that I seriously doubt Lucas would ever have considered.
  22. Deciple_of_Malak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2005
    star 4
    It would be a grave mistake to simply disregard EU. There is potential in it, and Disney could use it to their profit instead of just ignoring years of great material.
  23. Darth_Xeres Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2010
    star 1
    JangoFett21:


    I'm afraid I fail to see your point here. Mine was that Del Rey might not have known of the coming announcements right up until they heard of them at the same time we did, and thus they honestly believed that all their upcoming post-Endor novels were and would remain canon. While Del Rey's staff might not care overmuch about the EU's canon status, a number of their readers certainly do. And with the EU's canon status now called into question, a number of readers will likely wait before buying new post-Endor novels (or any new SW novels), or not buy them at all. This situation will result in decreased sales – and Del Rey will certainly care about that.


    Errr – I must be really dense this evening, because once again I don't see just what you're getting at. I was just pointing out that LF might not have alerted Del Rey to the coming changes and let them go on publishing post-Endor novels following Del Rey's planned storyline because LF figured that even decreased sales of post-Endor novels (and EU novels in general) were better than shutting down that line of revenue entirely up until 2015 and Episode 7. Also, abruptly cancelling all post-Endor publications would in itself have been a pretty big hint that something major was in the works. True, if this hypothesis is right, the announcements would have come as a nasty shock to Del Rey – but LF/Disney might have decided that maintaining secrecy about the announcements was more important than courtesy to a current publisher of SW material.

    I know and have stated before in this thread that whatever LF ultimately decides (or has already decided) is the best option going forward concerning the EU and its canon status will be whatever best serves the needs of the ST and LF's future plans for the franchise – along with my belief that said best option will be either scrapping the current post-Endor EU, or declaring it an alternate universe so as to give the ST a blank slate continuity-wise. The amount of money the EU has earned before or will earn up until Episode 7 almost certainly will have/had no influence upon LF's decision, nor should it.

    Kataja: Thanks for all the compliments. :)
  24. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Thats because the quality has been inconsistant (at best). When the change first happened there was a big sales spike (thought they still have 6 of the top 10 best selling titles - as of August).

    They might lose some authors, but they'll also gain some. Adding new blood to a property like this is often a good thing.

    Why would a re-start in the canon affect the money they are making? I keep seeing this point but there is nothing to back it up.

    All the info we have points to the EU being ignored when it comes to Episode VII, so I'm not sure why some people refuse to accept that. What will happen to the EU after is up for debate but there isn't much of an argument to made for the EU to be included in the film, at leas tin a significant way.
    Last edited by fenton, Nov 18, 2012
  25. gregvader123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2012
    star 2
    Great material? It's glorified fan-fiction. Why do you want that garbage influencing the writing of Episode VII? You know, EPISODE VII, an actual Star Wars movie, the thing that EU owes it existence to. Why would you want things like Darth Redundant and Bounty Hunter Boring taking up valuable screen time in Episode VII? Let Lucas come up with Star Wars and discard all the pastiche.
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