Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

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Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I agree with regards to Lucas. He seems to care very little for the EU storywise. I got the impression from talking to Dave Filoni that the Clone wars only really respects the EU as much as it does because of Dave's affinity for the fans. George on the other hand doesn't even seem to want to maintain continuity with G-level cannon. In Empire strikes back there is a line "no ship that small has a cloaking device". What does george want to do in the clone wars? Give a little tiny ship a cloaking device! The best dave could do was give Anakin a line like "ships that small don't normally have a cloaking device".

    Small one man fighters having cloaking devices wreaks havoc on ANH. Wouldn't one X-wing just cloak and blow up the death star?

    All this aside I agree that unless the director/scriptwriter of EP7 cares about the EU, it will get mostly trampled on. As far as no tears being shed, look no further than the opinions listed in the thread to see that the notion is unequivacally false.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  2. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    But greg, you'll get nowhere here mate by banging on the well-worn drum "EU is glorified fan fiction". I've heard those words out of the mouths of many EU-haters and it says more about the person and the lack of respect for others than anything else.
    Last edited by Katana_Geldar, Nov 19, 2012
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  3. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    IRL 38 years will have passed between EP4 and EP7, so that would seem to be the most natural leap in time.

    To keep all the EU set EP7 at 45ABY. You could age the actors up a little bit for the first film and depending upon the chronology of the films let the actors note be aged up for the sequels (as in, if EP 8 comes out in 2017 but takes place immediatly after EP 7).
  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Given all the complaints that the actors, particularly Hamill, look older than they really are, it might not even need much aging makeup.
  5. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    The problem with flat out accepting everything is that there are major elements of the EU that aren't really compatible with Lucas's vision. The Galactic Federation of Free Alliances, the Sith's Return, the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion, and so forth. That's a ton of backstory to work in if you accept it all, and if that's not enough it's also the most controversial part of the Expanded Universe.

    38 years? Lets see... that's 34-35 years post Endor then if you just wen with the ages. I've been saying 34 ABY would be ideal if you were willing to eliminate some of the most controversial and least popular bits of the EU.
    Last edited by stellarmagic01, Nov 19, 2012
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  6. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    This is what Disney will want ( I'm sure ) :

    The Big 3 back so the time line would have to be 40-50 ABY it can't be anything different ( Lucas stated in 1983 that he would like to see Luke , Leia & Han in their 60's or 70's in 7,8 & 9 )

    Chewbacca back ( the EU can say he survied - pretty easy really )

    Skywalker Children ( Ben could be adopted in theory just that Mara Jade has no reference ) Jaina is in it Allana is not & no mention of her or Jacen & Anakin - the audience will just buy the fact Leia & Han have 1 child .

    Ignorance is Bliss - you only have to reference the EU a little bit also no mention of any wars or invasions in the last 40 years so you can start fresh .

    Easy - job done & everybody should be happy the EU will stay intact & the audience is blissfully ignorant .
    Kyris Cavisek likes this.
  7. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    This is largely true. While I would personally prefer keeping the entirety of the EU, the Yuuzhan Vong War is a problematic events. It is simply too big - it changes the very geography of the galaxy. If you imagine the Star Wars universe as a game board all the other stories are just shifting pieces around over time. You can clear the board and place down new ones at any time without real difficulty, but the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion was like taking a carving knife to the board itself, it would never look the same afterwards. Other post-NJO events are far less troublesome, but since they are so heavily dependent on the events of the NJO itself they would be more difficult to work around (this is largely due to writing decisions by Del Rey, the post-NJO EU is largely confined to the novels and has a very linear sequence of events).

    It is still possible, of course, to produce a post-Crucible scenario for the ST that blasts the galaxy apart sufficently to ignore these impacts and the major characters of the 25-45 ABY time period but it would take significantly more effort than the wink-wink approach sufficent to save the New Republic Era.
  8. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Exactly, and at the same time the we know that since every Episode of Star Wars begins with a brewing problem (Seperatist Crisis, Blockade of Naboo, Battle of Coruscant, Search for the Death Star Plans, Imperial Pursuit, and Han Solo trapped in carbonite for example) that there will be new EU novels meant to tell the tale of the slow build up to the crisis we see on the screen. What I hope, desperately is that Lucas and company have decided to 'split the difference' if you will.

    5 ABY - 25 ABY will remain roughly as is with the Yuuzhan Vong probing actions removed.
    25 ABY - Episode VII time frame will be overwritten as the continuing struggles of the New Republic and Jedi Order and a lead into the crisis we witness in Episode VII.

    That would be my ideal solution to the problem anyway.
  9. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    There are a confluence of logic-paths, though, that point at a setting date of 50 ABY or thereabouts - particularly if any of the original cast return.
  10. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    You could still do 50 ABY... because it could well take 25 years of build up to the crisis in Episode VII. I mean the Separatist Crisis took ten years to build up, why couldn't the one in Episode VII take that long to build up... especially if someone is pulling the strings over a long period of time?

    The events of the NJO, Dark Nest, LoTF, and FoTJ would have such a profound affect on the characters that just slipping them into the backstory of Episode VII would be detrimental to the films. Lucas and most casual fans will want to do the restoration of the Republic, and you can't do that with the GFFA. People know about the Solo twins... that fact is rather mainstream, having only one Solo show up would be confusing. Having Ben show up with no mother and no reference to her would equally be confusing.

    All of the problems with using the EU tend to fall back on the NJO and it's repercussions... That's partly why I've labeled them specifically toast.
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Apart from the fact that it's half the post-Endor books; and what came before was (with a few good - mostly Stackpole, Allston and Zahn - exceptions) mainly either 'superweapon of the week' or 'I know, let's kidnap one or more of the Solo kids again', sometimes both at once (see Corellian Trilogy)!

    Regardless of the later books, at least the NJO was fresh and new - and to exclude it from the timeline would bring Anakin Solo into the picture again; he was written out on the basis of "too many Anakins", I believe on instruction from LFL, if not GL himself.
    Kyris Cavisek likes this.
  12. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I can understand the 'too many Anakins' problem, but then GL helped with the plot of Dark Empire that created Anakin so he made the problem himself... You can easily write one of the Solo kids into the background without killing them... that's one of the problems I've had with the NJO... so often times it felt like the editorial grim reaper was at work collecting characters or something. Couldn't they get a break?

    What the post 25 ABY EU should have been like, would be a collection of works like Survivor's Quest... a crisis in a far flung part of the galaxy that involved the main characters. We didn't need two full-scale wars like we got... If you want to write about a full-scale war, flesh out the Galactic Civil War some more without using a superweapon... *harrumph*
    Last edited by stellarmagic01, Nov 19, 2012
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    But did he actually input into naming him, or was that done in the novels?
  14. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I honestly don't know as I haven't read Dark Empire... but I wouldn't be surprised if Anakin is named in there. I mean naming the kid Anakin makes sense in universe, it's just that using him as a lead becomes confusing. In my mind the easiest way to get around that is to cast Anakin Solo in a support role. Let the twins be the Solo leads and Ben be the Skywalker lead.
  15. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I too like to pick and choose what happened in my AU, I go with the novel/comic version of the clone wars with Tano somewhere in the background... forgotten and unspoken, the who post ROTJ EU, mainly Thrawn, Rogue Squadron, I Jedi, Jedi Academy, YJK, JJK, NJO, DN, LotF, FotJ
  16. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    If we are assuming EU in tact, Ben, Jaina, and Jag headline the cast. Lowie. R2, 3P0 could support. Luke Leia Han and Chewie as cameo/bridge characters
  17. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Am I alone in thinking that having any of the Solo kids or Skywalker family dying off-screen is a bad idea? I mean... they're the family we've been following a major event like that should happen on screen right?
    Artoo-Dion likes this.
  18. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    True, however Mara Jade, though I love her character pre marriage, the minute she married Luke, we knew a child was inevitable (I don't care about the Vong virus or whatever. It was a hurdle not a road block. We all knew it). Mara isn't main cast. All it takes is Ben looking at a holo of her. Throw away line, "You miss her don't you?" "Mara... mom meant everything to me". You could get a statue of her, or even a holocron made for Ben. Lets all remember the vision she had for Ben's future. She wasn't in it.
  19. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Yes and she dies by Jacen who is killed by Jaina and... ugh. Such a kriffing mess. Lets make a list shall we of all the characters we lost whose deaths should have been in the films if they died shall we?

    Chewie, Mara Jade Skywalker, Anakin Solo, and Jacen Solo are all killed either in the NJO or following books. Them being dead would profoundly affect the story of any Episode VII and would also incur a large amount of baggage and fan angst. It makes Jaina Solo the lone survivor of three siblings, Luke Skywalker a widower, and so forth...

    Casual fans and the General Audience will want Chewie back... as he dies in the first book of the NJO from a moon being dropped on him it's rather hard to retcon that... I mean... the atmosphere ignited, the planet was destroyed, and nothing was left... you're not going to retcon that, you're either going to throw the event out of the canon and all events that are linked to it or... Chewie will remain dead.

    Which do you think any smart screenwriter would do? The NJO is like the 90s era of comics, we will never see it influence anything on the big screen as it's too dark, too depressing, and too bloody.
  20. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I don't understand why Luke being a widower is such a terrible thing. His wife died, through tragic circumstances, I will admit. She was a breeder. They didn't kill off the Big 3, left one child for each family. Anakin will not get mentioned at all. Chewie will be brought back. Jacen may be mentioned as a dead twin to Jaina. No one needs to know how they died. I think you just dislike NJO on, which parts of which I don't like either. But it does have it's high points. The biggest problem with it isn't tone, its the cast is too large causing the books to be unfocused and jumping everywhere with little to nothing getting accomplished due to having to follow too many story arcs. NJO's one good thing going for it was mini series, Dark Times is my fave.
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Untrue, from the book. Earth took a hit from a rock of half that diameter - a half-and-half sea/land strike (sea strikes are much more destructive) in Yucatan; and from the modern academics, it is now doubted that it killed the Dinos...or if it did, it took 300,000 years!
  22. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    If I'm honest I thought the Vong were an innovative idea... the whole force void thing, biotechnology, and so forth. The problem I had with them is that I didn't want to see the New Republic, that bastion that everyone was paying for in blood sweat and tears up to 25 ABY cast down and destroyed. I didn't want to watch the galaxy convulse from a war more brutal, lethal, and disastrous then the Clone Wars or Galactic Civil War. It turned an interesting idea into a unflinchingly painful experience if you invested emotionally in the characters before the Vong War. Everything that anyone had worked to build up was destroyed... the Jedi Order was all but extinguished, Chewie died, and so forth.

    After that I was hoping for a breath of fresh air, but apparently Del Rey didn't get it... Star Wars is about heroes overcoming immense challenges... we don't watch or read to see them fail. Dark Nest made me write off Star Wars as a whole until the announcement of the new trilogy... I wasn't coming back ever again.

    Yes I don't like the NJO, but I could tolerate it... Dark Nest made me walk away, and I've despised what followed as I know so many others did. Jacen was as far on the light side as possible at the end of the NJO that I could never envision him going dark... Then to kill Mara Jade by poison? I mean I actually started to loathe Del Rey at that point... Those stories simply aren't popular, why do you think Mercy Kill and Zahn's Rebellion era books are doing so well? We don't want that Legacy stuff... the comic was cool and all but that was the only bit I could accept with a straight face.

    Many of us that didn't like what happen have thought of asking for a partial reboot... and wouldn't Episode VII be the perfect time for it?
    TreborSabreon likes this.
  23. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    That's what happened in the book... It's Star Wars, I'm not bringing actual science into a science fantasy tale. XP
  24. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Granted the Vong War got taken a little out of control, it's scale a little too big. But that was to keep the OT die hards in the nitty gritty while Jar Jar meesa'd away. Jacen discovered the Unified Force, a gray Jedi move, not a far light side move. DN was stupid. Anything Denning does, I don't like. LOVE Allston's additions in LotF and FotJ. He keeps adding to the galaxy and keeps going back to them. He basically built the back ground for Syal and Myri Antilles, Doran Tainer, Valin and Jysella Horn, and Seha Dorvald. All characters that are wonderful in my book. Let's not forget his works in progress (character wise), Kolir Hu'lya, Tiu Zax, and Yantahar Bwau'tu. All have some potential. The problem is Allston continues to have to go back and write Han, Leia, Jaina, Luke, Ben, and Jag. The only two of which he is outstanding at writing are Ben and Jag. Adding characters like Ashik, Jag's chiss bodyguard. HOW COOL IS THAT?
    Allston's works are the reason I return to the EU.
  25. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Allston is good, but there's no reason you can't incorporate those things into a new EU after a reboot. I'd love to see Jag Fel show up... because there's another mess that needs fixed bad. Am I the only one that was like 'What the hell? Why are the chiss using Imperial stuff. They're not the Empire of the Hand' in the NJO? Plus, it seems some authors never got the memo on Chiss naming conventions. lol.

    Here is what you do if you want to introduce Jag Fel into a rebooted EU. Have him attached to a diplomatic mission from the Chiss to the New Republic as a part of say... the Empire of the Hand's diplomatic team. Just a pilot... there's an attack on the mission by someone and Jaina Solo is part of a Jedi team that rushes to rescue. Jaina and Jag meet and all sorts of things can come about from that... I have no qualms keeping the relationships and characters from the post NJO EU... They'd just need to be reintegrated somehow.
    Last edited by stellarmagic01, Nov 19, 2012
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