Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Well, there were ~20 years between ROTS and ANH. So I guess there will be at least 20 years between ROTJ and Ep7.
    SW has always been a story about legacies, but also one of generations, with the older generation making brief appearances alongside the new generation who becomes the main focus.
    I believe it is safe to assume that the same will happen next.
  2. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    ^ I think you WANT a fresh slate, thus based on your hopes are saying it will happen based on absolutely nothing. Kathleen Kennedy is in charge of Lucas Film, hand picked by GL. She has creative control, and while the director can put his stamp, that doesn't mean running rough shot over everything that is the Star Wars brand.

    History shows strong continuity attempts with only minor bumps...the future thus should be expected as the same.
  3. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Don't they frequenty appears on the new york times best seller's list? Darth Plageous was the best sw book ive read in a decade.
  4. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Again I agree, and we know that there is a team at Lucasfilm whose sole purpose is to ensure that the entire canon hangs together and makes sense regardless of medium. We also know that this is one of the reasons why Disney was interested in buying Lucasfilm in the first place.
  5. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6


    Yes, they do. Star Wars has appeared in the New York Times Best Seller list 38 times.
  6. Lord Nikon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Eternal Hero is confusing overall series story quality, with using facets and features of an existing EU...instead of accepting that the EU will probably play a role in the new films. No they won't lift whole books or arcs.
  7. Amphimachus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I agree with EviL_eLF as well. It seems that you're the one that's being too forceful in your assertion that the end is nigh for the EU, Eternal Hero. I personally want the EU to stay mostly intact, but I'm not about to claim that is is exactly what is going to happen, because we don't have enough information to say either way. I would guess that Lucasfilm will make a movie that will sell, and if that means stepping on some EU, then they'll do that, but I don't see any signs of them actively wanting to take a wrecking ball to things.
  8. Shira_French_Cheese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2010
    star 1
    *ST gets announced*

    "Despite virtually not knowing anything about these new movies, I'm fairly positive the EU is going to get nuked."

    "Yes, but — (puts forward reasonable evidence to the contrary)

    "You're clearly in denial, son "
    Last edited by Shira_French_Cheese, Nov 6, 2012
    Jedi_Glover, Lord Nikon and EviL_eLF like this.
  9. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    You do know that being a New York Times Bestseller doesn't make a book great or widely accepted? In fact there are ways publishers can manipulate sales to get on that list... lots of books get that thanks to the way the list is generated. It's when a book is there for five weeks or more that it's truly a hit. Call me when it hits a million copies. How big is most EU bestsellers? Not nearly that big.

    Now... what is likely not to be touched or mined for characters, locals, and other things? The books that have remain popular years later. Zahn and Stackpole's works are most likely to be referenced as they both still sell pretty well 10+ years later (20+ years in Heir to the Empire's case). I may need to buy new copies of those since mine are getting a bit tattered.

    What they might do is just take a look at the top ten or so most popular EU characters.
    1. Jacen Solo
    2. Jaina Solo
    3. Thrawn
    4. Natasi Daala
    5. Gilad Pellaeon
    6. Ben Skywalker
    7. Mara Jade Skywalker
    8. Corran Horn
    9. Darth Revan
    10. Xizor

    So lets pull out the ones most likely to appear.

    Episode VII? Well the Solo Twins, Ben Skywalker, Mara Jade Skywalker are almost instantly in then... Corran might be a background figure akin to Mace Windu in the Prequels, and everyone else? Well they're either so far out of the time frame to not be useable or have to little connection with the OT trio to be worthwhile.

    Well keeping Mara and Jacen would rewrite a lot of the Second Galactic Civil War, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by stellarmagic01, Nov 6, 2012
  10. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    The relationship between the SW franchise and its licensed media is very unique, and there is absolutely no real imperative for it to remain so. Even if the ST overrides a large swath of the EU canon, there is no reason why anyone ought to be freaking out about it because, if the ST were to do so, it would not wipe any of the EU stuff from existence; it would simply change the nature of the EU's relationship to the SW filmic canon. The EU would still exist in such a scenario, and Kathy Kennedy and the other folk at Lucasfilm and Disney would still have the option of mining it either directly or indirectly for future non-Sequel Trilogy SW projects should they so choose.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 6, 2012
  11. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Oh well, I answered the question of the thread with my opinion.

    And I said myself: they will surely cherrypick things from the larger SWU, they just won't use any of the existing sequels to RotJ as a basis for VII, which is what some people are obviously hoping for. "Slotting" it in would be career suicide. Because very few people have kept up with EU, and new people will mostly not care. You could fit the post "Jedi" EU fandom into the vest pocket of the total global community of people who are interested in SW and will be fans of the new trilogy.

    I think a lot of EU fans are in for bitter disappointment in the near future. Why put yourself through it? I've already accepted the obvious: Episode VII + "original story" = the blindingly obvious: the post RotJ is about to experience a "grave disturbance". It served its purpose, we're getting the real thing, why obsess over something that isn't going to happen?

    As I posted earlier, this is going to be the SE type controversy for years to come...
  12. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not wishing the EU away. I've avidly followed the comics since 1992, I love the Thrawn Trilogy, I think the KOTOR universe is a brilliant expansion of the mythos, I was really pleased with "Darth Plagueis", I love the Bane Trilogy: but there is almost zero chance that the director stepping into this is going to want to adapt the massive, convoluted post "Jedi" EU in any way. I highly doubt Lucas's story treatments are about Jacen and Jaina. These folks will want to create their own characters and situations. Of all the EU, this is the era that stands the most chance of getting overwritten. And the last series was ridiculously bad and seems to have been disliked by even the hardest hardcore EU fans. Before EVII was even announced there was speculation of a "reboot" or reordering of that Era.

    I guess we'll find out soon enough. But even if they lift some names, they won't be adhering to the texts. Any more than ESB was a sequel to "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", or TCW series was a sequel to "Shatterpoint" or Karen Traviss.
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 6, 2012
  13. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    I'm not putting myself through anything when there is no indication to expect anything other than the status-quo in terms of effort to protect the brand in entirety.
    Lord Nikon likes this.
  14. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    ^ The thing is, the brand doesn't need to be 'protected in entirety', as there is no imperative for the canonical status of the EU licensed media to remain intact, nor was there imperative for it to be considered to be canonical in the first place. As I noted, even if the ST does override a large swath of the EU canon, that material will still exist as part of the SW brand; all that will change is that the SW canon's relationship to the licensed EU media will become exactly like the relationship between the canon of other franchises and their licensed media. This won't stop people from picking and choosing which pieces of the EU licensed media they wish to continue to consider canonical, nor will it prevent anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney from potentially mining the EU licensed media either directly or indirectly for future SW filmic projects.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 6, 2012
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  15. Lord Nikon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Seriously. Stop using the "director" in place of the screenwriter(s). It's not that hard to be aware that a director doesn't write the movie or adapt jack squat.

    Is it truly that hard to say "screenwriter" and attribute the proper job to the proper person and not be disrespectful of that job?

    Did Lawrence Kasdan or Richard Marquand WRITE EMPIRE of JEDI? Nopers.

    So stop saying "director" like they have a heavy influence on the script.
  16. Amphimachus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Well we can both agree on this anyway. I am optimistic, but I will concede that no matter if they want to keep the EU intact or not, things are going to be shaken up. I can see the potential for lots of offhand comments or actions to require a lot of retconning afterwards. After all, the Prequels had a spot reserved for them and they still messed with a lot of the basic assumptions about the Jedi in the Old Republic that had slipped into the Bantam books. With the pure amount of content in the post Jedi EU, things are sure to get shaken up a bit.
    The-Eternal-Hero and EviL_eLF like this.
  17. Krueger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    I think they will definitely pick and choose from the EU, but I just don’t see any adaptations or them not doing something out of respect for “canon” established in the EU. I think the relationship between the films and the EU that we’ve seen before is what we’re going to get. Like Quinlan Vos and Ayla Secura (sure I’ve misspelt that). I can see them picking characters they like the look of. I wouldn’t be surprised if we do see Grand Admiral Thrawn one day. It won’t be in an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy, though, but rather just his character because he’s so popular and, quite frankly, he looks cool. But yeah, that’s the relationship I see.
  18. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Oh man, the hair splitting is beyond ridiculous.

    Kersh and Marquand made major contributions to their scripts, Marquand made big contributions to the story of RotJ, such as the Jabba's Palace sequence, having all those characters in disguise was his idea. Once on set, the director and actors change the script and add things, this happens on almost every movie. Many directors write their own scripts (Lucas, Spike Lee, Orson Welles, Woody Allen, Bergman, Fellini and many many more) or heavily rewrite them until they are what they want (David Lean, Ridley Scott, Coppola etc.) and go on adapting throughout the creative process of making a film.

    There's a lot denial here. Whoever directs this movie will have a big influence over the story, will have input on the characters, and will want as much creative freedom as they can have. Wouldn't you? It's the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm sure they will try to be as respectful as possible, especially to the 6 existing films, but I cannot possibly imagine a capable director just taking some script adapted from EU and mechanically shooting it. This does not and will not happen. The stuff in the post "Jedi" EU is obscure to most. It will probably not factor in very much, if at all, or as anything more than inspiration for new ideas.
  19. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Completely agree, the relationship between the Films and EU will remain the same. Original film with original story that will cause some minor EU retcon as usually happens, but nothing major will be affected.
  20. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    There is absolutely no reason why there cannot be major alterations made to the existing EU material vis a vis the Sequel Trilogy, and the possibility of such alterations being made is nothing to be freaked-out about. Regardless of what the Sequel Trilogy does to the EU, the EU will still continue to exist as a cohesive narrative universe, with the only thing changed being that certain aspects of it - depending on exactly what may have been overridden in terms of specific details and whatnot - will no longer be considered to be part of the SW canon, which is fine because, as I already noted, there was never any imperative for the contents of the EU licensed SW media to be considered to be part of overall canonical tapestry of the SW brand an universe in the first place, nor is there any imperative for the EU licensed material to continue to be considered to be part of the overall canonical tapestry of the SW brand and universe.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 6, 2012
  21. Ron Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    I'm convinced it's all going to be toast, but it's going to take a while to sink in. I know it's going to be impossible to squeeze Ep.7-9 into existing canon, but MAYBE there's a time period that has remained untouched.
    LawJedi and The-Eternal-Hero like this.
  22. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    There is, the post FOTJ timeframe, circa 50 ABY. They'll have a lot more freedom there than try to shoehorn something into the TAB-FOTJ period.
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Nov 6, 2012
  23. Lord Nikon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Dude, when someone asks you who wrote EMPIRE or JEDI who do you (and everyone else) say? GL. End of story. That the directors had input was down to their relationship with GL. Don't quibble with me over your OWN wording of your argument. How ridiculous.

    Your list of directors who also write are a who's who of directors KNOWN to write their films....I could give you a list of 50 directors currently working ion Hollywood who don't have that input...a few of which I know (friends in the industry) who could tell you how it REALLY works in Hollywood. Coppola and Scott (and the other directors) have the clout to write or rewrite stuff....because producers and studio's need to keep them in favour otherwise the movie goes for a sh*t.

    I'll give you a few recent examples k? Just for your own education. ;)

    DREDD - Pete Travis directed a script written mostly by Alex Garland. The studio intervened and allowed Travis to do some re-writing because they didn't like what Galrand was shooting for...and Garland was pissed. The movie nearly got tanked because of that rivarly which was caused by the Studio and producers.....not the writer and director.

    DRAGONBALL - James Wong directed it, had to start shooting without a script, had his effects budget cut into a quarter when they arrived on location, and had to deal with a script he loathed whch was not remotely close to the treatment he agreed to shoot. The movie tanked and in the end it wasn't his fault, but it was unavoidable.

    You see in Hollywood you are either a big player (like the directors you mentioned) or you aren't. If you aren't a big player you cannot (as a director) see much input in the script beats of the film. A producer can swoop in =at the 11th hour and demand reshoots. Happens ALL the time.

    Do you walk around saying that Mike Newell wrote GOBLET OF FIRE, or that Alfonso Cuaron wrote PRISNONER OF AZKABAN? Are you kidding me, Steve Kloves would have a hairy fit on you if you said that. A director adds a tone and style and even to an extent a pacing and cinematographic aspect....but the content is up to writers and producers and only big shots in Hollywood can call the shots the way you've mentioned. Everyone else has to play by the rules. Why on earth do you think there are so many books and articles about movies that were supposed to be SO different but interference messed with the directors vision.

    Do yourself a favour and look up the original TERMINATOR SALVATION treatment that the director agreed upon and then what was shot...probably the biggest and worst studio/producer interference in the last ten years of cinema. And that was a guy who had 3 major recent successes under his belt as a director (McG)...but even he was not immune to studio meddling.

    If you think for one second that a director who hasn't also written his/her film has much say in what goes into the writing, you're just WAY off base. But hey, believe what you like sir. I'm just trying to help educate you on who does what on a film set.
  24. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Ha ha ha. Thanks for "educating me"; now you have to explain the other 99% of film history. Some of the best moments in the history of film ("You lookin' at me?" "I love you" - "I know" "This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship") were completely improvised on the set.

    But go on dreaming your beautiful dream, while you still can.
  25. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    So Kyle Katarn or Jan Ors are not on so popular? They mostly appeared in video games, granted, but they're also considered part of the EU.
    In fact wasn't Katarn one of the Jedi who helped Luke create the new Jedi Order?
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