Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

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Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Nobody has ever said the EU will be used for anything more...that doesn't mean you scrap continuity either.

    I don't get why you think that's a mutually exclusive thing. You can be original and still maintain most continuity.
    Lord Nikon likes this.
  2. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Okay, now lets all take a deep breath because well... I smell something burning. You guys are getting pretty aggressive. Calm... calm is good.

    Yes Disney paid 4.05 billion dollars for Lucasfilm. Most of it were for the Star Wars movies and Indiana Jones properties. What do you think they valued Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, and Leia Organa at when they made that offer? Did they even think of the EU beside saying... "Okay, we'll pay you a million bucks for those properties?"

    4.05 billion verses a million bucks? I mean that's the difference in value between the films and the EU. Will they include some EU? Of course. Will they overwrite things if they don't like it? Absolutely.

    Oh, and did anyone else go: "Aboleth, you must be joking... Why are the Jedi Order fighting a DnD monster?" That's how ridiculous the post-ROTJ EU has gotten at times. Of course they're going to ignore or overwrite some of it.
    Moorplant and The-Eternal-Hero like this.
  3. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Somewhere Dave Filoni and George Lucas are bathing in a large pile of money and thinking "gosh, if only we hadn't discarded that Clone Wars Multimedia Project and Genndy Tartokovsky."
  4. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Or, they could set it after 45 ABY, and simply not reference the EU and not kill it, but do a separate story.

    That's not denial, incidentally. It's the most positive way of viewing the future.
  5. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    And the first dailies come out and the Disney execs go: "Where the kriff is Chewie, I see Han, so where is he?"
  6. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    Disney does not have creative control...Kathleen Kennedy does. I guarantee there is protection of the brand in the purchase agreement. Disney would be bound by that agreement.

    GL is a shrewd businessman, so you know he has stipulations to protect the legacy of his life's work.
  7. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Yet nobody asks where Jar Jar is in the OT.

    Not every character will continue over. Chewie, admittedly, is the biggest 'Uh-oh' moment for me.
  8. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Even Wookies don't live forever, Sinre! And Chewie has a son, so would anyone really notice....
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 6, 2012
  9. Moorplant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Which could also be the idea that you create the massive tentpole movies that have defined the franchise and then work any tie in material around them, not the other way around.

    I'm not denying it could work. They might do "after 50 years of turbluence a new generation has risen......" and create it in such a way that it remains vague as to what went on and the films don't suffer for it.

    But here's the thing. TCW cartoon created a lot of bitterness among some EU (and some movie purist fans too!) partially because it basically meant that a lot of the previously published materials from that era were now obsolete and had to be retconned (again and again) to work, minor characters dying differently or eing downgraded in importance or Mandalorian cultural changes caused massive arguments. I just don't see, even if they set it 50-100 years out, how a possible 2 new trilogies and/or other solo films isn't going to cause the same explosions on a mega scale, even or especially if they use some concepts. E.g. If the Luke set up an Academy/Temple at Yavin does it still count if it's a totally different style of Jedi Order? etc etc. If it's the Galactic Alliance rather than the New Republic but the backstory about that is changed that will still get some extremely annoyed.

    I think LFL will make an effort to preserve some of it and maybe try a retcon to end all other retcons to try and keep everything in continuity the way some pre ESB stuff still is but I don't see how the effects can be minor if we're still in a time period using Luke/Han/Leia/Lando etc.
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  10. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    This isn't a case of finding a "gap". There is none. If they deal with the classic characters they will either have to adhere to EU continuity or invent their own. I think they'll invent their own.

    The benefits of getting Mark, Carrie, Harrison and the others back, giving them a strong movie, passing the torch to new heroes etc. is so strong, and obvious, and what everyone has wanted for so long, I will be utterly shocked if they do anything else. I'm up for something different - heck, I'd much prefer a TOTJ or KOTOR era trilogy myself - but that's not the obvious choice. This movie needs to re-position SW in the global marketplace. Right now the fanbase is divided: there are OT fans, PT fans, CW Mark I fans, CW Mk II fans, video game fans, EU book fans, comic fans etc. What they need is to pull all those disparate camps together and usher in a new audience. This was pretty much blatantly stated in the press release. As popular as SW is, it has lost its focus for the general public.For many it has negative connotations as something that has somehow lost its value. The idea is to re-frame it so that it can go on for generations. For good or ill, that's apparently the plan.

    Adhering to a mountain of stop-gap material that is overwhelmingly dark and depressing and that was made with no master-plan would be ridiculously self destructive, and no way to ensure the continuance of this beloved story. Pandering to small groups of fans within the larger fanbase is also a bad idea. Tying the hands of their writers and director with bizarre restrictions is doubly perverse. They will want to proudly announce their director with the confidence that he or she will bring something new and exciting to the screen.

    How can they proceed with a publishing program based on the new films if they have to write around 20 years of accumulated backstory, and if EVII doesn't reflect that backstory? It will have to be dealt with. Maybe a clever solution can be found on the publishing end (as it will not come from the movie-making one) or they can just keep it in print as they have so many publications that are no longer in step with the ongoing story (Lando Trilogy, Marvel comics etc.). But it's going to happen.
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 6, 2012
  11. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    In my mind, the films can reference whatever plot-point they fancy - Sith heralds, Imperial terrorists - whatever, and we can go from there. 45 ABY is that open. We don't know what happens to Vestara, to Ship, to Abeloth, to the Lost Tribe, to Lecersen, to Daala, to Mortis. All we know, from the FotJ loose ends is what happens to Stavin Thaal. Woot. The Alliance can get rebranded the Republic by Dorvan if it comes to it.
  12. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    You think they will...that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. That doesn't mean everyone else is in denial if they believe otherwise though. There is legitimate reason to believe they will strive for as much continuity as possible, whether you want to acknowledge it or not
  13. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Jar-Jar isn't Chewbacca, and you know that. How do you address the "uh-oh moment"? (yes, I really just typed that sentence with a straight face)
  14. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    This is precisely why none of it will be used. I have no idea who these people are. Very few do. It might be the greatest story ever told, but what does it have to do with GL's treatments for VII-IX? Can you imagine approaching the screenwriter with that? Good Lord!

    "Okay, there are some restrictions, true, but here are your options: you can deal with Sith heralds, Imperial terrorists, what happens to Vestara, to Ship, to Abeloth, to the Lost Tribe, to Lecersen, to Daala, to Mortis. Unfortunately, we already know what happens to Stavin Thaal, in case you thought you might base the most anticipated movie of all time on that: sorry!"

    They would probably run screaming never to return. And not 'cause Stavin Thaal's storyline is tied up.

    Oh well. I'll try to have fun watching the pieces fall.
    the_sinister_hologram likes this.
  15. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    *smiles to LawJedi*

    Then I shall have to gracefully concede the point, and give up on the continuity, certainly.

    But I don't see Disney potentially isolating a portion of their fanbase, not unnecessarily.

    If it happens, I'm not going to rabidly swear off Star Wars and throw a temper tantrum. I may very well express disappointment, and Disney may lose my financial interest in the long run, but if it happens, it has happened.
    Last edited by Sinrebirth, Nov 6, 2012
  16. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    This is my point. By 2015 the majority will have accepted it. No matter how much we love the different books, they aren't as powerful as seeing it up there, on the big screen, where SW belongs. We're probably about to get the official continuation of the Saga, I just don't believe many tears will be shed for the loss of the old EU. It was fun while it lasted, it will probably remain in publication as e-books forever, but we're gonna get the Real Thing!!
  17. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    *smiles back* Well, it sounds like you're a rational party. Exactly the kind of rational party that Lucasfilm will have in mind when they make their decision. [face_batting]

    I'm just looking forward to speculating on these movies without someone walking into the thread saying "well, actually..."
  18. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    "Well actually" ...
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 6, 2012
    LawJedi likes this.
  19. Moorplant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2004
    You know, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised if they did try and create continuity however possible considering a lot of the multiple retcons they've already done to some of the earlier material. But from my personal POV that would take place trying to make the changes the movies make fit the EU somehow, not giving a screenwriter and director a list of possible gaps in the storyline to put their movies in or a list of EU plots still open for them to tie up.They do make a money from the books so they might well decide to try and make it work, but I can also see them taking the opportunity to "reboot" that part of EU and getting some of their authors to write material that ties in more directly with where VII-IX are going.

    I still think even if this movie tore up 20% of the post ROTJ directly, and left 70-80% vague or open to retcon, that 20% is still going to cause some fans to claim LFL betrayed their loyalty etc etc, how dare director X trample on these authors who've been there longer... Character Y was so much better than the new characters. Again I point to some of the more heated discussions over the Clone Wars; if Even Piell can cause such upset I can't possibly imagine how original story new Sequel Trilogies are only going to require minor adjustments, even if LFL creates whole new levels of canon hierarchy, contracts timelines and everything else.

    OTOH as much as I would personally like Chewie in the movie if everyone else is going to be there, I also wouldn't be entirely surprised if they decided to keep him dead in a nod to Vector Prime.
    Last edited by Moorplant, Nov 6, 2012
  20. Poor Greedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 2
    Due to the unconventional way he approached liberating Vader and his disregard for the Elder Jedi's wishes, I would think Luke would re-establish what HE thought the Jedi or could or should be. Being allowed to marry and bear children is a great way to break the mold of tradition with a sound logic in expanding the Jedi Order organically. Anakin and Padme ignored it, so why not their son? It wouldn't be hard for audiences to imagine Luke having children. It would require some backstory on how he met Mara Jade in the first place. Do they touch on how she hated Luke at first? Or her connection to the dark lord? That being said the stage is set for one hell of a speculation whirlwind. :D
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Not very well informed, then - are you? Just how many of the books have you actually read?

    Mortis might well feature - that is one of GL's own ideas, and has beeen heavily pushed just recently into the EU from his TCW project. I have it on very good authority that Revan and Bane (hope you've heard of them) were due to guest (possibly ghost) in the Mortis trilogy up until a very late stage in pre-production.

    After 45 ABY there is virtually a blank starscape until roughly 130 ABY; therefore plenty of room for the ST, a Sequel ST and several standalone films if Disney want to produce that many.
  22. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Keeping Chewie dead would really upset most fans, myself included. You need him there. Imagine assembling the original cast and actually telling faithful old Peter Mayhew that he's not in the movie because some writer knocked Chewbacca off in some book 15 years ago. That doesn't seem possible. Imagine a trailer for the sequel to RotJ without Chewie. "Sorry folks, he died in the Vong War; you know! That story everyone loves so much!"

    Yeah, these are sticky problems. Sorry if I sound didactic, I'm just trying to be realistic and sort all this out. This movie represents the opportunity of a lifetime for the people making it. It will take precedence over many other things now under their care. The expectations will be far beyond that of the PT. It doesn't seem reasonable to hamstring this project with a raft of restrictions based on a temporary version of "what happened next".

    I could see the original EU being brought to a close. I could see it being moved into its own alternative universe where it was before. I can even see massive crazy contortionist retcons to make it all match the new movies. What I cannot see is anyone producing this film trying to fit their story with what has been published. It just doesn't make sense.
    LawJedi likes this.
  23. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sorry, that doesn't sound like a blank slate to me. It sounds extraordinarily convoluted and packed.

    As for Mortis - my three favorite episodes of TCW and one of my favorite things Lucas has ever made - I just personally get the feeling he's moving on, having made his points and fought his battles. It's way too esoteric to import into a movie like this, and its use in LotF caused a sh**-storm of angry controversy that went on for months, its not like it was well received. I'm willing to bet 25c and a Hershey bar that Mortis will have zero to do with EVII.

    As I've stated many times, as far as EU, I'm primarily a SW comics fan. I've read alot of the books, but the post "Jedi" stuff besides Zahn has always left me cold. I have a nephew who is really into it and he has kept me informed. I tried LotF and gave up after the first book. I am going to try and read the Vong saga next summer, give it a second try, since "Legacy" and "Invasion" warmed me up to the Vong a bit.

    I'm a Lucas fan first, then a SW fan. But I've been in this since '77, I've read hundreds of the comics, a pile of the novels, and I love TCW. I'm up on the big stuff. But there's a reason the post "Jedi" books have been problematic recently, why they aren't as popular as they once were, why Del Rey changed their publishing strategy, and why so many people hated LotF: it just isn't very good, interesting, or satisfying.
  24. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    So what is the reason?
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Except that Mortis was not mentioned at all in LotF - only in the fifth chapter from the end of the final book in FotJ, "Apocalypse"; and that's only come out this year.
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