Speculation Why the NJO and Legacy Era are toast.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by stellarmagic01, Nov 5, 2012.

?

Do you think the NJO and Legacy are going to Survive Episode VII?

Yes 59 vote(s) 27.6%
No 154 vote(s) 72.0%
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  1. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Uh...yeah...as I said, it was in that series; and it was bitterly complained abt on the Literature Board all summer. I was so curious I bought a copy of the book but the bad writing defeated me. I don't think a Mortis reference in EVII would be a good idea. It would confuse casual viewers and anger the many who hate everything to do with TCW. I believe it was used as a way to wrap together the poorly planned storyline for LotF. I don't think GL is now basing every SW story on it.
  2. Frank Zubek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    The smart thing to do would be to set up a new canon based loosely on the outline for the new film(s) that has been turned in
    Paramount does this with the Trek franchise. While there are many many books in the Trek franchise, none of them are 'officially' recognized as 'canon'

    And that's fine by me. After all, one to two years between films is a long time to wait ( in addition to a good deal of cash that could be made from a monthly schedule of books between films)

    And I would think maybe the 'best of' the past dozen or two years of books already published could be kept in print to appease the majority of the readers who have supported the paper format of the franchise all these years
  3. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    And Trek also has two different "timelines" running concurrently, one based on the original series, the other on the Abrams-verse. Why can't SW do the same?
  4. Lord Nikon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    How arrogant of you to dismiss 20 years of blood, sweat and tears by publishers and author's as NOT THE REAL THINGS.

    Just wow dude. Wow.

    What do we look like form up there on your high horse where only movies count as "real".

    Must be fake money that Paul. S. Kemp, Denning, Traviss ect. all made from their book deals.

    But I'd flat out adore to see you stand in a room with (martial arts expert) Matt Stover and tell him his SW books aren't "real".
  5. Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2000
    star 4
    I love books, but no, SW books aren't "real." Sure, there's plenty of bad writing in the EU, but I think the main reason there are so many people who detest it is that it's not "real." It's a copy. An imitation. Authors who think "that movie was cool, I think I'll write about it." Heck, I like TCW, but even that doesn't feel "real." With Star Wars, if it's not a movie, it's just not as good.
  6. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    [IMG]
  7. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Ever read an interview with these guys? They'd be the first to agree that they were just providing some SW entertainment. They have their own series and projects and mostly write this stuff for fun, money, and to have some small part in SW, which they are fans of. I've never heard any EU author besides Karen Traviss ever complain. Zahn has posted twice on FB that it would be only "right and proper" for EVII to ignore his books.

    The EU tells its own stories but this one was a temporary solution for what was believed to be a permanent problem. Turns out to be not so permanent! So yeah, we will now get the real sequel to RotJ, from the original author, and it very well might displace the virtual sequel that was played out in the EU.

    Boo-hoo.

    Bring on Episode VII!!!
  8. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Because Star Wars doesn't work that way. We readily accept time warps, parallel realities and alternate dimensions in Star Trek because they have always been there and go right back to episodes like The City of the Edge of Forever and Mirror, Mirror. The closest we get to time travel in Star Wars is flow walking, which works very differently and doesn't actually allow you to alter or interact with the time period that you are seeing because if you try to change something, the Force just changes it back.
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Nov 6, 2012
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  9. Moorplant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Well at the end of the day we're here arguing over which sets of fiction is the "realest" so..;)

    I might tell him that I enjoy a lot of his books (Shatterpoint is a favourite) but that for me the movies will always supersede any books as canon, but that I consider ROTS to be a great novelisation. With TCW in full swing I'm sure he's aware of the risks of playing in someone else's sandbox

    Even now a lot of the EU is a step down or two in canon where it has been superseded by the movies, GL pronouncements or TCW or whatever and those authors have dealt or not. The reason post ROTJ has become as huge as it has is that there was no other canon for it to crash into. Now there's going to be. All the authors are aware that the stories and characters they create are the property of LFL and they can do what they want with them, just like authors of other tie in works for franchises.
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  10. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    It doesn't have to be explained. It could just be its own continuity. The Marvel comics and many of the books don't fit comfortably in the "continuity". Call it "Alternate Continuity". To my mind, this should have been done a long time ago instead of trying to stitch it all together. We wouldn't be having this conversaton if it had been done.
  11. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I don't much know how the list is generated, so I tried to find more objective facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books#List_of_best-selling_book_series puts Stars wars books at 160 million copies as of 2005. They outsell chicken soup for the soul. Let's ballpark total sales by 2015 to be 200 million books. I'm going to keep these estimates rough and call the average price of a book 15 bucks. (If someone wants to provide a better number I'll use it, I'm just not sure how to weight the ratio of hardback to softback and account for constantly inflated book prices without sales distribution data.) This puts the gross of the books at 3 billion dollars. The total worldwide gross of all 7 movies is only 4.5 billion http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=starwars.htm.

    The value (monetary) of star wars lies in the merchandising. How much revenue has EU toys/comics/expensive replicas generated for the company?
  12. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    North of 200 million last year. I don't remember EXACTLY where I read that, but I remember reading that a couple of days ago.
  13. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Nov 6, 2012
  14. Jedifirefly5 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2

    I totally disagree with everything. Luke doesn't know about the acetic jedi life. Anakin is the poster boy for why denying jedi families is a bad idea. Let's forget that the Sith plotted their return for 1000 years and amassed uncounted wealth and power for decades before Anakin was even born. Yes, it's having a preggo chippie that ruined the galaxy. Palpatine was incidental? C'mon.
  15. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
  16. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    As I've already said TWICE, there is absolutely no imperative for the canonical status of the EU to remain viable, nor should there be any edict in place that would in any way 'handcuff' filmic canon. Changing the canonical status of the EU would in no wise wipe its current content from existence or prevent the addition of new content to it, nor would it prevent Lucasfilm and Disney mining it for direct or indirect inspiration for future, non-ST Star Wars projects.
  17. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    It's *fiction* - and anybody could write any story about anything. The EU authors just got the paychecks and the contracts and there you go. Demanding the movies conform to the books means I'm not allowed to speculate myself about what happens with these characters offscreen...unless I go and read a book and have it told to me. Some of us love the films, hate what we've read of the books and (as with myself) discount what writers have done because I hate what they've done with characters and storylines. I don't want the Rule of Lucas to be "You've gotta read the books to enjoy the films."
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  18. cronedoggy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Thanks for the link. Very interesting. The movie revenue is wrong, but pretty close, see http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=starwars.htm. I'm very willing to admit my book estimates could we way off. I made a bunch of assumptions to ballpark a figure.

    Even considering the link you posted, the books made more money than any one movie, more than the top 2 movies, or episodes 4, 5, 6 and the clone wars combined. My point is only to illustrate that the books fans aren't a tiny fraction of the SW fanbase, but rather a sizable portion of it.
  19. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    There's not much wrong with the present system of ranked cannon, IMO, and there has never been any question of the EU 'handcuffing' screen canon (TCW is a prime example of this happening).

    However, it's much easier to keep one timeline organised than two (particularly when one doesn't have the - forced - device of Stardates meaning different things in different places to fudge the issue). Luke being in two places at the same time? Unthinkable!

    Given the small number of authors actually writing SW books at the moment, and the need for ST tie-ins, I very much doubt that there would be much, if any, addition to the current EU continuity if it was relegated to some sort of alternate timeline.
  20. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Where did you get the idea that anyone was "Demanding the movies conform to the books"? It just ain't so! As for being "not allowed to speculate myself about what happens with these characters offscreen...unless I go and read a book and have it told to me", please try looking in the Lit section - it's full of speculation - among other interesting things!

    And, despite loving the films, some of us aren't prepared to wait for 10+ years (in this case 30+) to know what happpens to our favourite characters - and by the time Timothy Zahn started the 'Book EU', GL had said that there would be no more films....
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 7, 2012
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  21. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Many people, myself included, share this view. However, given we're in the movie forums expect disdain for anything Lucas didn't personally work on. Check out the Literature forum if you want to talk of the EU without it being trash talked every second post. :)
  22. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    You completely missed the point of what I'm saying. So long as the EU remains canon, you're going to have people arguing over things being overridden and screwed with by the ST. By disposing of the EU's canonical status, you avoid all of that hassle and preserve the EU as it exists currently while still allowing authors to add to it and keeping it as a goldmine for potential future SW films that are unconnected to the ST.

    Also, I don't know where you got this notion that I said anything about alternate timelines.
  23. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    As the TCW precedent shows, the ST will take priority over anything in the EU - so there can be, and will be, no arguments about that (people complaining about the disruption is another matter - but people are complaining about certain aspects of SW all the time, including complaining about parts of the EU!).

    It then becomes the province of people like Leland Y. Chee, Pablo Hidalgo and Jason Fry to attempt to iron out any differences while causing the least possible disruption - but always putting the films first. That process is called 'retrospective continuity' (colloquially, a 'retcon'). I'm told that the TCW retcon ended up invalidating just six installments of one comic - a very reasonable solution.

    As all books to date have been published, bought, and are on fans' bookshelves (and, in my case, with some stacked on the floor!) the EU will, of course, remain in being - I hardly think that Disney and/or LFL are going to send people door-to-door to search for, confiscate and dispose of copies!

    The concern is that publishers and authors will be very reluctant to add to a body of work that is no longer considered to be canon. They will write for the new canon instead.

    Actually, the goldmine for future, non-ST, SW films already exists - it's called the Holocron and it is maintained and operated by the aforementioned Leland Y. Chee.

    That is one of the solutions that has been mentioned. IMO, that would be preferable to downgrading the EU to have no more status than fanfiction. It's all very well to talk about "disposing of the EU's canonical status", but you do not say where, and how, the current EU will fit in to the "New Order" you seem to be advocating.
  24. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    Look, when one poster says "Boba Fett was killed in ROTJ, so he won't be in the ST" and another poster responds "No, he didn't die, he escaped. That's been established." - you have a problem. There's a chunk of fans who want the movies to adhere to the books even though nary a soul in my local theater will know a Thrawn from a Yuuzhan Vong (or whatever). I simply say that I want to watch a film and not have to know the whole backstory that precipitated it. Especially when said backstory is conveyed by knockoff (imho) books.

    The simpler solution is to have the films avoid anything covered in the books and come up with some fresh ideas.
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    We didn't actually see Boba die in RotJ (and I understand that one of the upgraded re-releases either showed, or was planned to show, him escaping!). Never, ever, count someone as being dead unless you have seen the body and confirmed the identity with a DNA sample - the (fictional) graveyards are full of people who make that false assumption about their mortal enemies! Wookiepedia is a good source of data about who is actually dead and who is not - look at Darth Maul, for instance. Hasn't he been seen in TCW (a GL production, and therefore fully canon, years after being sliced in half in TPM?

    I don't think that the ST (or any future film/trilogy) has to cover anything from the books. All that is needed is proper planning and reservation of chunks of the timeline to avoid clashes - that was done before in respect of the PT, mainly successfully. The EU can fill in the gaps, or even use the same time period but use characters that, for one reason or another, do not appear in the films- simple!
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