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Discussion Why the odds are "3720 to 1" you'll actually like EP7

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by phatdude1138, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 2, 2005
    "Never tell me the odds!!" Ok, I said it (because we knew someone would), anyhow, on to the thread:

    No, I'm not trolling. I'm not yelling fire in a crowded theater. I'm not "starting trouble". I just posted this thread because I think people are starting to have too high of expectations for EP7.

    Back in 1977 society had no clue what Star Wars was. They had no preconceived notions. They didn't know what to expect. Obviously history shows Uncle George created a fictional universe, a timeless fairytale of characters and places that are yet still unmatched to this day. We're not even talking the impact he had on film-making, just the SW franchise he created.

    By almost everyone's standards the OT is considered the best SW. With the exception of the "Ewok Haters". In that subset they consider ESB infallible. In 1983 that was it. No more Star Wars films. Fans had a total of 16 years to fabricate in their own minds what "future" Star Wars films would be like. What new characters there would be. New places. New stories. Some of those fans even created licenses SW content: the EU. More and more people had in their own imaginations what a perfect Star Wars movie would be like. Then it happened. The "dark times":

    The PT was released, and droves and droves of fans were "let down". Let down because THEIR vision of Star Wars and their expectations of the past 16 years were not met. People will hide behind almost anything to defend their hate of the prequels: "Bad story. Bad Directing. Bad Actors. Too much CGI. Jar-Jar". When really it's just their expectations weren't met. This isn't anything new. Movies based off of popular books have been suffering this same fate for years. When you read a great book, your mind fills in all the details: the scenery, the characters, everything. A film maker can never achieve what's "in YOUR head"..

    So here we are again: So many people rejoicing that another SW film will be made and how the odds are it will be great because "it's got to be better than what GL did with the PT". Like Disney just needs to snap it's fingers and EP7 will go down in history as another great SW film.

    I think it's great to be hopeful, but don't be naive. Disney has a monumental task ahead of them. Sure they maybe the "best option" to tackle the task, but it's still a very difficult project to get right. Even if they do everything "right" there will still be a segment of people that will hate it.

    In the end it's peoples expectations that will kill this film. Some people want this to be as close to 100% Lucas made film as possible, some want it to be 100% new, almost on the verge of reboot. As they say: "you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."

    Just for clarification, I'm a "older dude". I saw the OT in the theater. When the PT was release I made a conscious effort not to "expect" anything. I wasn't going into it thinking "what makes an Academy award winning film" or "what would critics like". I basically went in opened minded, almost as if I was a kid again for those 2 hours. What happened is I left liking the PT, and yes, even liking Jar-Jar. I still watch them to this day (about once a month). My friends my age however, didn't fare too well. They went in with unrealistic expectations and left hating the PT.

    Go in to EP7 with unrealistic expectations, and you too will end up hating this film..
    Seagoat , lbr789, StoneRiver and 7 others like this.

    WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Knight star 4

    Dec 16, 2010
    Never tell me the odds.
  3. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

    Mar 16, 2003
    I love the OT and the PT... I think the odds are all but guaranteed I'll love the ST.
    Force Smuggler and JainaSoloYJK like this.
  4. Buddha Fett

    Buddha Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Dec 18, 1999
    What are the odds that another similar thread on this topic already exists? 1:1.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  5. KilroyMcFadden

    KilroyMcFadden Jedi Knight star 3

    Oct 31, 2012
    Three films full of "Bad story. Bad Directing. Bad Actors. Too much CGI. Jar-Jar" is why the PT didn't live up to my expectations. For SW7, (just like any movie,) l will go into the theater expecting a good story, good directing, good actors, CGI used properly, and no Jar-jar. Those are bare minimums. Hopefully, this time I will not be disappointed.
  6. awesomejedi

    awesomejedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Nov 7, 2012
    I love just about anything star wars.:D
  7. KED12345

    KED12345 Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 10, 2012
    We have a thread already for this, js. BUT that being said, your last paragraph hit a huge point home that I certainly agree with.
  8. Buddha Fett

    Buddha Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Dec 18, 1999
    Boo Hoo. If you want to whine about the prequels, try this forum:
    LawJedi and InterestingLurker like this.
  9. That Bad Huh

    That Bad Huh Jedi Youngling

    Nov 4, 2012
    While I'm inclined to believe that Ep7 will be great, I will grant you a sliver of doubt, because of the director situation.

    Why? We've already started to see it. With a project this big, most directors don't want to touch it with a 30 ft pole. There're too many expectations, too many what ifs, too many traps. That means that it's somewhat plausible that the person we do end up with will be someone either absolutely sure of themselves of someone happy to just be given the opportunity.

    In the case of the latter, the pitfalls are obvious...he may not know what he's doing. But the former could actually be worse: people with that much overwhelming confidence tend to be either really, really good, or really, really bad. For proof, watch the auditions at American Idol.

    Now, truthfully, I think they'll find someone competent to do it. But I am a *little* (as in, very slightly) concerned that the above scenario will come true, in which case you'll be right, and I won't like it.

    It's not impossible for me to hate a Star Wars movie. I couldn't stand the Clone Wars feature.
  10. Frobozz0249

    Frobozz0249 Jedi Youngling

    Nov 2, 2012
    Too much CGI: Check
    Too much Jar-Jar: I suppose, wasn't a huge deal to me
    Bad Actors: some were bad, some were brilliant
    Bad Directing: Bad in parts, great in others
    Bad Story: can't disagree more. I thought the story was incredible. It was the delivery that failed (in places).

    With George essentially writing the ST story but others handing the delivery, we get the best of all worlds. My expectations couldn't be higher, which could be a probelm...
    Episode Swag likes this.

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jun 8, 2002
    Because I'm a Star Wars fan, until do us part.
    Buddha Fett likes this.
  12. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    I go into films expecting to like them. If I didn't, then I wouldn't waste my money for a movie ticket to a film that I was anticipating would suck. I was disappointed with TPM and AOTC (though I did very much enjoy ROTS), but it wasn't an "oh my god, the sky is falling, where did my childhood go?" reaction. My expectations for Episode VII, regardless of the performance of the prequels (which were done by Lucas who has now been delegated to a more minor role), is that the films will be good. I don't expect the films to be the most amazing things I've ever seen (though that would be welcome). I know it is possible to make a good Star Wars film, since it has been done before. That's all I expect is another such film.

    And yes this is all subject to my opinion and I'm well aware that there are those that enjoyed the prequels.
    fishtailsam likes this.
  13. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 2, 2005
    Yep, that's the important part. The more threads I see based on "wish lists" I see people being disappointed.

    I call it the "infinity-X" equation. X equals all the things you want, infinity-X is everything that is NOT your expectation. That's a "LOT" of stuff that isn't what you would want.
  14. Sethian Eber

    Sethian Eber Jedi Youngling

    Nov 4, 2012

    I was in my very early 20s when TPM came out. I had seen the OT theatrically as a toddler and during the 'dark ages' of SW after ROTJ I mostly didn't care for them until around the time of the 'renaissance' (few years before it perhaps). I think I was 11 or 12 at the time and I loved them. This was right around the time the Zahn novels came out, OT was being over-played on Sci-Fi channel (I think.. now syfy) and HBO, there were a lot of video games and comics, GL announced the PT, then a few years later there were toys everywhere (and in great demand due to reseller hoarding). That stuff just made me like it even more and also introduced it to many new fans.

    After GL announced the prequels, I waited for 8 years and my expectations could not have possible been met. They were high as I'm sure many fanboy's were at the time. I did not like the prequels until recently (and I really like them now, especially ROTJ which I despised in 2005). My unmet expectations and the flaws of the PT (and there are also flaws in the OT which my child mind saw past) made me hate them. The viral 'fan' social hatred didn't help. What did was seeing kids love them so much. Upon re-visiting them I enjoyed them.

    Sorry for my boring story. In (probably May of) 2015, I will have no expectations upon entering theaters. I'll try avoiding character and plot details, TV specials, and even trailers if I can help it. I will enter expecting to see a Star Wars film and hope to be entertained. I don't care how much CGI is in it. Just give me some good guys versus bad guys, some lightsabers, droids, and space battles. If the dialogue is questionable and there is a cheesy love story or the film ends in a cliffhanger, I don't care so long as it is Star Wars.
  15. lord_eidolon

    lord_eidolon Jedi Master star 3

    Feb 2, 2004
    I loved TPM, so it's pretty certain I'll love this one.
    THX_1138biggs likes this.
  16. hyperionprime

    hyperionprime Jedi Knight

    Apr 3, 2011
    every star wars story is welcome.i love star wars i will take every stuff they give me and appreciate it.they shoud be no question about hate star wars or prequel,i'm a transformers fan too and i thanks michael bay and paramount to give me those movie even if they're not perfect,they still have bad ass robot fighting.i all need with star wars is lightsaber,starships,jedi,force powers etc...i would watch a 2 hours lightsaber fight without any the prequel or not it's star wars and we should be thankful
    l that a saga like this is still alive and more powerful than ever,even lord of the rings or avatar has more lovely fan than star warsany other film are easily lost in mind,never star wars will
  17. ThatWanFromStewjon

    ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Knight star 4

    Oct 8, 2012
    I was avoiding this thread because it seemed to be another ridiculously negative thread and I finally gave in with the intention of tying to find out why you would be so negative.

    I was, happily, surprised to see that this thread is not at all that and that you make some valid points about history repeating itself and the project getting over hyped again.

    But, dude, bad choice of thread title - doesn't at all match the topic or the message you are conveying.0
  18. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 4, 2012
  19. Plebeian

    Plebeian Jedi Padawan star 1

    Oct 31, 2012
    I don't what the odds are, but I'll expect of the film what I expect from every film.
    I doubt it'll disappoint in that regard.
  20. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 2, 2005
    I appreciate you giving it a chance.

    You too make a good point about "history repeating itself". I think all of us want these new films to be good, but we wanted the prequels to be good. I thought they were good, but others didn't feel the same.

    I guess a better title for the thread would have been "Don't have unrealistic expectations". But I guess I find some people don't listen, are just going to go head first in support, and end up disappointing like they did in the PT era.

    I'm basically being SUPER cautious when it comes to these films. Right now there isn't enough data/facts for me (or I think ANYONE) to "know" that these films "will be" great. All we know is it will most likely be an "original story", possibly star some or all of the old cast and Arndt will write it. To say it will be great because it has a Star Wars label is naive. I think once we get solid info on a cast and on a director, then we can be more positive, or possibly more negative.

    Another old saying is: prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. That's my plan for now until more info comes out.
  21. JediKnightOB1

    JediKnightOB1 Jedi Master star 5

    Jan 26, 2003
    George Lucas could have directed "Two girls, one cup" and people would have paid to see it. I don't expect that in the latest batch of Star Wars saga. I am just glad that LucasFilm/Disney are going ahead with it.
  22. ThatWanFromStewjon

    ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Knight star 4

    Oct 8, 2012
    Other titles - don't shoot my prize racehorse while it's still in the horse box

    Don't panic

    Everybody chill

  23. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 2, 2005
    I still think the prequels get a bad rap because of peoples expectations. Since most people won't publicly say that was the reason, they go back to the standard bad "this" and bad "that".

    I believe it will be the same with EPVII. Some people will legitimately like it. Some will not like it, but inevitably talk themselves into liking it, or say they like it just to spite the PT. Then there are the folks who will forget how "pro EPVII" they were and say "Disney screwed it up".

    We know one thing for sure: this film will make money (not to be confused with being a legitimate Star Wars film)
    This will be a NEW era of Star Wars, not the Star Wars we grew up with. Some think that is good. Some think it is bad (I'm more of the latter)

    I definitely can't wait to come back in 2015 and see what excuses people have for "not liking it". It was easy for everyone to "blame Lucas" or blame "Bad Directing. Bad Actors. Too much CGI. Jar-Jar".But what will be their reasons for saying EPVII is bad this time? The funny part is I'm being totally critical right now (which I think everyone should be), but I'll probably do like I did with the PT and just go in with NO expectations and with an open mind. It worked as I loved the PT, and yes, I liked Jar-Jar. So long story short, I'll probably end up liking it more than the people that are currently swooning over all the speculation.
  24. DarthLowBudget

    DarthLowBudget Jedi Master star 5

    Jan 17, 2004
    The prequels get a bad rap because they are bad. Few films could have stood up to the expectations heaped upon TPM, true, but the film really was a failure in terms of plotting and dramatic structure.
  25. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 2, 2005
    So is it safe to say that the "bar" is set so low with the TPM or the PT that Disney could make almost anything and EPVII would be considered a success? To me that's just as bad.

    My hope is that any new film will try and hold true to the "SW SAGA", basically follow the same format. I think if the writers and directors hold to the structure (including the nuances) they should be ok. But its a doubled edged sword: If they hold true, they may alienate the masses, while keeping fans happy. If they make a "commercial cookie cutter block buster", they will alienate fans. It's a tough assignment. That's why I'm thinking they will go blockbuster with it, but I see a lot of people/fans being just as disappointed as PT haters.