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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Why the Old Republic is awesome, and a potential creative gold mine

Discussion in 'Literature' started by jedi_samuel, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Golden Age of the Sith (published in 1996) told us that the Sith began with the First Great Schism, and then The Emperor's Pawns (published in 2001) told us that Xendor started the First Great Schism. Putting these two together tells us that Xendor founded what became the Sith. In 2005, The New Essential Chronology contradicted Golden Age of the Sith and said that it was the Second Great Schism that started the Sith and that Xendor's faction was called the "Legions of Lettow."
     
  2. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Thanks, I wasn't aware.


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  3. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    You're welcome.

    I liked the idea that Arden Lyn, when she woke up, got to see what she started finally succeed after 25,000 years.
     
  4. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I've always found the idea that the First Great Schism was a bit of a non-starter to be kind of stupid as well.
     
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  5. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    I thought all the Great Schism's were great, and contributed not only to just how powerful and seductive the Dark Side was, but also helped the idea that the Sith (Darksiders) could always be reborn among the ranks of the Jedi. Multiple schisms made far more sense than just one to me, and made for a better, more interesting history. The point they messed up at, and this often happens with series that aren't planned from the start with multiple writers, was the origins of the Sith Order itself.
     
  6. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Tbf to Ajunta Pall when he was invented he was supposed to belong to Xendor's schism. When TNEC bumped him to a completely different time period it threw his backstory out of whack as well.
     
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  7. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I still can't believe the entire backstory of the Sith was completely altered just to accommodate a single line about lightsabers. Especially since Dawn of the Jedi then went on to basically introduce lightsabers into that era anyways.
     
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  8. jedi_samuel

    jedi_samuel Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2014
    There we go.

    We at least have pre-2000 years before TPM. Looks like, for George Lucas, star wars didnt exist before then. :cool:
     
  9. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Well, no. The SITH didn't exist before then. The Jedi certainly did ("a thousand generations" and all that) and they undoubtedly had unique issues they faced throughout the generations.

    What we have instead is the potential for a RICHER Star Wars history than we had before. Post KotOR, Legends basically decided that the same Jedi vs. Sith war had been going on since the dawn of time. Now, we have a chance to explore new adversaries, new philosophies, as well as new Jedi (after all, we've only seen the end of the Jedi Order; it couldn't always have been so institutional, so corrupted and inflexible).


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  10. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    They had the Forcesaber for 20,000 years and couldn't figure out how to put an on-button on it without needing an extension cord.
     
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  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    The light side needs an extension cord.
     
  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    It will be interesting to see what new philosophies, adversaries, and things for the Jedi to do we see. Maybe the Rakata hung around longer than we thought.
     
  13. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Think of the possibilities. In The Clone Wars alone we've seen the Nightsisters, Orphne (nature goddess of the Kindalo), the Dagoyan Masters and the Frangawl Cult, and the Five Priestesses. We also have the Shaman of the Whills, still alluded to in the official site's entry on Qui-Gon Jinn.

    And the Jedi don't always have to be the heroes either. Remember that to the Dagoyan faith, the Jedi are violent kidnappers, and honestly, they're not wrong. We've moved beyond good and evil, red vs. blue, and into a more complex, rich exploration of what the Force can mean in the galaxy.


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  14. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    It has always been complex and grey from the beginning. The thing that has changed is more realise and acknowledge it now largely likely due to the PT Era.
     
  15. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006

    It'll always come down to light side versus dark side. Jedi versus some version of Sith. Even if they aren't called Sith. It's highly unlikely the adversaries of the Jedi, if Force-users, will be light siders. The Saga itself is about the cosmic conflict of light and dark, with dark skewing towards imbalance. And given the whole Mortis arc, there being zero indication that the light side trends that way at all. As with the old Dark Empire Sourcebook explanations of the light and dark sides of the Force. One trends towards a holistic view, and the other is entirely selfish. And we see this embodied in the Son and the Daughter.

    I really don't see how that Manichean struggle will manifest any differently in this scenario, without what were once Sith now being called something else. Dark Jedi, Sith, Nightsisters, Legions of Lettow, Rakata etc. All were dark siders.
     
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  16. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    the Jedi could be the bad guys
     
  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Jedi Princess's point was about Sith, not about dark side users in general, so Jedi Princess's point still stands.
     
  18. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    well, treating the subject more seriously, the Sith are nigh irredeemably evil people

    I don't think that the antagonists in Star Wars need to be the ultimate evil desiring of galactic conquest for the story to be effective, and I don't think the parameters of the universe require them to be that way

    look at Caedus. as terrible a villain as he is, he ultimately had a laudable goal, just terribly counterproductive ways of going about achieving that goal. but if you had that sort of a villain written effectively, then the conflict may be resolved in ways that aren't just some final showdown.

    hell, the film saga doesn't end in one final showdown that decides the galaxy, because Star Wars is ultimately about transcending the duality.
     
  19. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    The second draft of ANH says:

    "Until the tragic Holy Rebellion of “06″, the respected JEDI BENDU OF ASHLA were the most powerful warriors in the Universe. For a hundred thousand years, generations of Jedi Bendu knights learned the ways of the mysterious FORCE OF OTHERS, and acted as the guardians of peace and justice in the REPUBLIC. Now these legendary warriors are all but extinct. One by one they have been hunted down and destroyed by a ferocious rival sect of mercenary warriors: THE BLACK KNIGHTS OF THE SITH."

    I found it interesting that the Sith are described as mercenaries. Mercenary Force-users is something that I would enjoy seeing in the future.
     
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  20. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Exactly. It's sad, I think, that we assume Star Wars stories must endlessly be about conflict, since the ultimate victory in the story is about REJECTING all that.

    Remember when Yoda falls, leaving the Senate in shambles behind him. "Into exile I must go. Failed I have." It isn't simply that he's failed to destroy the Sith. If that were the case, he would simply regroup with Kenobi and try again. He's failed on a more fundamental level, by meeting the darkness on its terms. His grief caused him to forget the lessons he learned from the Five Priestesses and Qui-Gon Jinn, and so he has truly failed. He goes into exile, he abandons his rank as master and becomes a student once more, for he has not fully unlearned what he had once learned.

    Luke is the fulfillment of that promise. Luke throws away his lightsaber BEFORE calling himself a Jedi. He succeeds where Yoda once failed, and the Force sees to it that against all odds, his way of peace succeeds.

    And yeah, the fights and such are exciting and are why a large part of the audience tunes in. But the fights are always part of a larger philosophical or political debate, a way of visually depicting it. When Sith clash with Nightsisters in The Clone Wars, you see the differences in their spiritual paths clashing; both are "Darksiders," yet there is a gulf of understanding between them. There are all manner of ways this can play out going forward.


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  21. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I don't think Karen Traviss would want to write for Star Wars again.
     
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  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Was thinking more along the lines of Atris or the Jedi Covenant.

    But I feel like there's this No True Jedi fallacy manifest in SW where if a Jedi does something bad they magically transform into Sith. Or "Dark Jedi."
     
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  23. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Heh. I have a, somewhat silly, suspicion that they'll "remaster" KotOR at some point in the future and tweak enough for Darth Revan to slot into the same general role. Because [face_money_eyes][face_money_eyes][face_money_eyes]
     
  24. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Can't say I'd be entirely against that. Especially if it means I might get (even the possibility of) Lady Revan back.


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  25. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    I wouldn't be against it either way, to be honest. Though I'd be extraordinarily pleased if this time around Revan were a woman.