Why the PT will never be as good as the OT

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Sebulba-Dug, Jun 2, 2002.

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  1. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    Huh. I could have swore that's what I remember reading. The funny thing is, in ANH there are a few instances where Obi-Wan has his lightsaber pointing directly at the camera, and it looks like a long thin rod with beads on it.
  2. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Well it basically was just a long thin rod. They just painted over it. For evidence of what i'm talking about, watch ANH. After Vader kills Ben and all the stormtroopers are shooting you can see Vader in the background just holding a silver rod-they forgot to rotoscope his lightsaber on it!
  3. DarthCyruellen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    My thread was locked because it was about the PT, not just AOTC. So why the HELL does my thread get locked, but this one doesn't?

    Give me a EDIT explanation.
  4. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    DarthCyruellen, PM a mod about it or go to the JC Communications forum to express your concerns. I also suggest you edit out the "F" word in your post.
  5. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    Because I'm special. And you might want to edit your post. I think I hear a banning coming your way.

    Anyways, the more I think about it, the more I realize my feelings towards the OT being better are mostly because of the characters and the attachment I have to them. They were better developed and like I said before, we stay with the same characters throughout the trilogy, where the PT is constantly introducing new ones, and the characters change so much between TPM and AOTC. Any thoughts?
  6. jedi-jeff Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 3
    the more I realize my feelings towards the OT being better are mostly because of the characters and the attachment I have to them.


    I also prefer the OT over the prequels for the same reason.
  7. DarthCyruellen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    Sigh, just forget it, it's not worth it.
  8. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I have just as much attachment to the PT characters as the OT characters.
  9. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    I too have just as much attachment to the prequel characters as I do to the original trilogy characters-- no more, but no less.
  10. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    What characters, besides Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin can you really have an attachment to? I can see maybe Palpatine, but he's not really a character you're supposed to like.

    EDIT: Oh yeah...and Sebulba. ;)
  11. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Padme, Palpatine, C-3P0, R2D2, and even a little bit of Jar Jar.

    In the OT I had attachments to Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, the droids, and Vader.
  12. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin, Padme, r2d2, c-3po, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace.

    Edit: Foxbat... you beat me to it.
  13. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    PT: Jabba and the "Banking Clan" alien look like refugees from a second-rate video game.

    OT: two words -- Gamorrean Guards.


    you know, i didn't mind the gamorreans. But Jabba is an interesting thing.

    Nothing beats the Return of the Jedi puppet. It looked REAL. it didn't move, as in walk "around" but did have some motion on its dais. But it looked like a big ol' slug gone to pot.

    In the Special Edition of Star Wars, that Jabba looked pathetic. The "step" on the tail looked bad, and that Jabba looked nothing like the jabba in Jedi. But you might have thought, "Oh, he gets richer and fatter by Jedi." His decadence and power grow, and maybe Lucas gets away with the CGI Jabba in the Special Edition.

    But then, Phantom Menace, the Jabba in that looked a lot more like the Jabba in Jedi.

    So Lucas has hurt the Special Edition Jabba, I think. People keep telling us we are going to have to take these things as a whole. Well, taken as a whole, Jabba is VERY inconsistent. The voice doesn't match up, either.

    I grew up with the original trilogy, so I am biased. I don't think the CGI is bad , in and of itself. But it does make some of the effects of the original trilogy look dated, and it NEVER did before Lucas did the Special Editions. Think about it. Before Lucas put CGI into Star Wars, it held its own against films made years, decades later.

    He dated his own work.

    He does some inconsistent things even in that. Why didn't he fix the lightsabers in Star Wars to make them look like the sabers in every film that followed. At least Vader's red saber?

    Why hasn't he reshot the Emperor in Empire Strikes Back, using the guy playing Palpatine? No sense to that?

    Those are some logical fixes.

  14. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Sciwalker, I think (at least I hope) Lucas will make those changes when the DVD's come out. I don't think he'll mess with the lightsabers, but I do think he will probably upgrade all the CG in the SE.
  15. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    I think the cg in all the SW movies should be updated, say every 5-10 years to keep them modern. Nothing drastic, just "touch ups" on existing shots. And then maybe a rerelease in theaters every 20 years, you know, to keep SW on top.
  16. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    []bYeah those matte paintings and stop motion puppets really made you think it was all real[/b]

    Very funny. There are things that can be done to compare. Direct things.

    The stop motion Luke and Han riding tauntauns looked just as fake as Anakin riding that cow thing in the pasture.

    No improvement. I can think of a story reason for Luke and Han to ride the tauntauns. I can only think of an FX reason for Anakin riding the cow in the pasture.

    There's no improvement, but the decision to use an FX is more defensible in the original trilogy, in this case.

    As for matte paintings. my comparison will not be between the original trilogy and this one. Just between the original trilogy and the Special Editions.

    When they land on Yavin, the temple matte painting was much better than the CGI painting they replaced it with. I can't understand why they replaced it at all, except the need to tinker.

    Also, there is NO reason they couldn't have made the matte painting in the '70s look like the CGi painting in the '90s. No reason at all.

    The matte painting worked as well, if not better.
  17. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    Personally I hate chewbacca, but that's just me.

    I can't understand how anyone could say this and call him or herself a Star Wars fan. If that's a flame, so be it.

    I just can't understand.
  18. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I can't understand how anyone could say this and call him or herself a Star Wars fan. If that's a flame, so be it.

    I agree, and I also can't understand how someone who hates the PT can call themselves a SW fan. Unfortunately too many people on this forum do exactly that...
  19. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    If people hate the prequel trilogy but still want to be fans, then why don't they just visit the original trilogy forum? I couldn't imagine spending so much time discussing movies I didn't like.
  20. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    Once again, it HAS to be this way. The OT is simple, its good vs. evil. Well the PT is all about how that evil comes to power. You didn't think that it just happened, did you? No, Palpatine slowly rose to power. And Anakin's fall was slow, too. He didn't just wake up one day and say, what the hell, I'll be bad today. To repeat a point from above, it has to be more complicated than the OT in order to set up the simple OT good vs. evil set up.


    I haven't made a judgment on which is better. My favorites, it's a slightly different thing. If this truly becomes one story told in six points, which we'll know when Episode III is all said and done, then I don't think anyone will have any cause to say one story is better than the other.

    But those who prefer the current films are making a mistake when they say the story line is just a "simple" good versus evil storyline.

    It is at its height in Return of the Jedi, but there is a danger of Luke falling to the dark side of the Force. He is in real peril at several points of this happening. It starts in Empire, really.

  21. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    If people hate the prequel trilogy but still want to be fans, then why don't they just visit the original trilogy forum?

    I have been losing sleep over this very question...not literally but I wonder about it quite often...
  22. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    I don't dislike the PT, actually I love it. I'm not sure if I stated this on this thread or not, but I was watching ROTJ one night and noticed that the OT has a different feel to it than the PT does...one that I preferred more. I then tried to figure out why I felt this way, and the original post are the things that I thought of. This wasn't meant to be a PT bashing thread...maybe the title doesn't reflect that...but I was merely trying to translate my feelings into words.
  23. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I wasn't implying you are a basher Sebulba. I understand some people will not like the PT as much as the OT. But to hate the PT is a different issue. There are a select few people on this forum (I think we all know who they are) that prefer to non stop bash this movie and TPM. That's all they do, they can't say a damn thing positive about the PT. Those are the people whose motives I must question.
  24. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    And, maybe it'll be addressed in Episode III, but why does it suddenly go to Anakin our Savior to KILL HIM as Darh Vader, and that's not metaphorically either or certain point of view. Luke is ordered to kill Darth Vader no matter who he use to be, by Yoda and Obi Wan, not save him from the darkside. Infact, when Luke gives the idea, Obi Wan tells him it can't be done.

    I think you need to be more careful.

    Yoda tells Luke he must "confront" Vader.

    He doesn't tell Luke to kill him.

    Yoda says that only a fully trained Jedi can "conquer" Vader and his Emperor.

    He never says Luke is a fully trained Jedi. he just says, "Already know you that which you require."

    Everytime I read this and see this in Jedi, I think, that Yoda's plan is not about beating Vader, but giving Luke enough to survive a confrontation and bring him back to the good side. Sometimes I think that Yoda hasn't even clued Ben in on it. Because Ben says that Vader is irredeemable.

    But even then, the last line isn't necessarly about a battle.

    "you cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again."

    Facing isn't necessarily fighting.
  25. Sebulba-Dug Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 1
    Everytime I read this and see this in Jedi, I think, that Yoda's plan is not about beating Vader, but giving Luke enough to survive a confrontation and bring him back to the good side. Sometimes I think that Yoda hasn't even clued Ben in on it. Because Ben says that Vader is irredeemable.

    I think the exact same thing. ;)
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