Why was Anakin so angry to not receive the rank of Jedi Master?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Dmasterman, Jan 16, 2011.

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  1. Dmasterman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2008
    star 1
    In ep 3, when Anakin is given a position on the Council, but shows agitation when they allow him to be on the council but deny him the rank of Master.

    Anakin made a point that there has never been a non-jedi master in the history of the Jedi council, thus it was outrageous.

    Well here were Anakin's options:

    A. You take the position.
    B. You wait till you become a master.

    Technically it isn't that bad of a deal. But to my view, he only wanted to be on the council to achieve a master rank, but what for? Was there something Jedi Masters had that he wanted? Maybe knowledge of other force abilities to save Padme? Or possibly more power?
  2. Chance the Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2005
    star 5
    He got so angry mainly because he thought he was more powerful than most of the members on the Council and he knew he was the Chosen One.

    I think he wanted the uttermost respect (Even though he has quite an reputation as the Chosen One.) the members of the council and other Jedi Masters had.


    Most likely, because Jedi Masters and Council Members could access a restricted area of the Jedi Archives.
  3. gobalicious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2010
    star 1
    Probably just because of his ego. I'm guilty of wanting awards just because the name sounds cool and I'll get some recognition among my peers.

    Assuming that wasn't Anakin's motivation (unlikely), perhaps masters could access a Jedi archive of secret knowledge that was deemed too close to the darkside.

    Either way, I can understand his anger (though not how he showed it). The council wants wants his abilities and ties to the chancellor at their fingertips, yet they don't trust him enough to bring him into the brotherhood of their highest rank.
  4. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Movie:

  5. Chance the Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2005
    star 5
    It's in the novel? I haven't read it in a long long time.:p I actually thought of the restricted area in the Jedi Archives part of my post from an episode of The Clone Wars.
  6. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    As PPs have said, he wanted access to a restricted section of the archives. Or as a friend of mine put it on another site, he wanted his Master's library card. He thought there was something in that section that would help him figure out how to save Padme's life.

    I also understand why he was so angry. As someone already mentioned, they were essentially using him to spy on the Chancellor (whom he trusted, as misplaced as the trust was) but they would not grant him the rank that Council members had always received. As he said, never in the history of the Order had someone been placed on the Council but not received the Master rank.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Council had two choices:

    1. They could tell Palpatine to screw himself, that he was not entitled to appoint his own personal representative to the Council, Chancellor or not. Anakin probably would have been pissed at that as well but the Council could have made the point that it was procedure and had nothing to do with him. If they really did not trust Anakin with the Master rank, this is what they should have done.

    2. They could have allowed Anakin to sit on the Council and given him the Master rank that went along with being a member of the Council. It's possible then that he might have been more receptive to their concerns about Palpatine. As it was, they insulted him (intentionally or not, I see why he felt insulted) and then asked him to spy on someone he considered a friend.
  7. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Just my opinion, but ... Anakin wanted respect, recognition and validation. Instead, by electing him to the Council but denying him the rank of "Master", the Jedi not only squelched a life-long dream but made it seem as if they had gone out of their way to snub him. They would have been better off doing one or the other: i.e., electing him to the Council and making him a Master or simply denying him both and leaving him where he was. With this half-and-half approach, the Jedi only reinforced Anakin's underlying suspicions, subtly egged on by Palpatine, that they didn't trust him, combined with amplifying a more recent belief of Anakin's that the war had corrupted their principles and caused them to start treating their own Code like dog meat.
  8. jedislayer5000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2010
    star 1
    im not sure why anakin thinks that its never been done before that a jedi knight was put on the council while not a master, ki adi mundi was a jedi knight when he was put on the council..
  9. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    He wanted the dental plan.
  10. CloneUncleOwen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2009
    star 4
    I was thinking more along the lines of key to the executive wash room.
    They have this little jawa who sits at the end of the sink. When you're
    done washing, he hands you a towel. You leave a credit in his bowl.
  11. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    But was Mundi made a master when he was put on the Council?

    The novelization goes into further detail on this. They put Anakin on the Council but told him that he could not speak in their sessions nor have any voting rights. He was to be a chair-warmer and allow them to use him to spy on the Chancellor. I don't know how the Council treated Mundi but I suspect it was quite different.

    Cryogenic nailed it.
  12. FalorWindrider Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2010
    star 4
    Yes, the Jedi Council were not spymasters. They didn't realize the importance of keeping Anakin at least somewhat content. Also, during the sessions that we do see, the Jedi Council treats him with mild condescension (or overt in Mace's case), kind of like they're saying "go in the corner and play, little boy. Us grown ups have important stuff to do). Also, every time he is turned down, there seems to be a backhanded insult right around the corner. When Anakin relays the information about Grievous being on Utapau, and says the Chancellor wants him to go, they counter by saying someone with more experience is needed. While this is true, it was the wrong way of phrasing it because it made Anakin feel unimportant, which is VERY dangerous if he's being used as a spy. Instead, they should have said "We need you here on Coruscant. You're too valuable to the Council to have you go to the Outer Rim." That strokes Anakin's ego, makes him feel wanted, but also accomplishes their goals.
  13. ILuvJarJar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2008
    star 6
    His ego was his downfall in the end.

    He was the chosen one, and thought that he was more powerful than any of the masters on the council.

    In his mind he thought, why would the chosen one be on the council and still a knight when he was better than all of the masters?

    His ego was also a part of his fall to the dark side.

    Yes, he wanted to save Padme, but he wanted power, the power to save and create life.
  14. DarthIktomi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2009
    star 4
    Only Jedi Masters can get Sith holocrons.

    Sith holocrons contain information on how to defy death.

    Anakin was worried about Padmé dying.

    Now, who can put two and two together?
  15. FalorWindrider Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2010
    star 4
    Honestly, if they were worried about that, they could have easily moved the Holocrons. But they didn't even give Anakin a vote on the council, he was purely a spectator. That does not create trust and Anakin justifiably felt shunted aside. Again, the Jedi are just extremely genre blind.
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Because Anakin was an ungrateful, arrogant, whiny, foolish, easily manipulated and overall horrible person.

    None of the other reasons matter.
  17. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I'd say this is a bit too much of a reductionist approach. Anakin is arrogant, he does whine, and he makes some foolish choices, but he also has legitimate grievances against the Jedi Order. The fact of the matter is that by putting him on the Council, not making him a Master, and asking him to spy on the Chancellor, they are in effect demonstrating that they don't see his opinion as equal but are perfectly happy to break their code and jeopardize Anakin's friendship with Palpatine to their own ends. He's been fighting in a war for them for 3 years and has just recently rescued the Republic's leader and killed the head of the opposition. What they're doing amounts to little more than a back-handed compliment and he has the right to be upset. He probably shouldn't have become so aggressive in the Council chambers, however, as that hardly helped his case, I imagine.
  18. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Well said.

    Calling Anakin names is an overly simplistic and juvenile approach that reduces the story and the characters to something too boring to be worthy of discussion. Honestly, if Star Wars were reduced to "The Jedi were perfect. Anakin sucked. End of story," there would be no point in even having a discussion board here. And I certainly wouldn't be a Star Wars fan, because I outgrew simplistic stories with "all good" and "all bad" characters when I was about 9 (incidently, about the same time ESB first appeared in theaters).

    And saying that "none of the other reasons matter" is strictly your opinion and not based on anything Lucas put in the story. And if your opinion is "I don't like Anakin so who gives a crap why he was upset?" then why bother discussing it? Why the drive-by posting?
  19. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5

    What is there to complain about? He was placed on the Jedi High Council, that is a great honor, regardless of circumstances. He's the youngest to ever be appointed to the Council. Despite what he said, he isn't the first to be on the Council without being made a Master. They just gave him a great opportunity, and he whined about it. They were giving him a chance to sit among the wisest Jedi in the Order and learn from them. That's an amazing opportunity. That's like a young athlete being able to sit and chat with Hall of Famers, a kid fresh out of college working among the best in his chosen field, etc. A humble person, like a Jedi, would have happy with "just" that. I would have been giddy.

    Instead he exploded in a selfish, arrogant and jealous rage because he didn't get what he wanted......does that sound like a Jedi Master to you?

    This example is just indicative of his entire life in the Jedi Order. They freed him from slavery. Obi-Wan trained him against the Council's wishes (I know they later relented, but I think that was just to smooth things over). The Jedi took him in. They fed him, clothed him, trained him, cared for him, nurtured him, encouraged him, etc. They made numerous exceptions for him. What did they get in return? Betrayal. And for what? Because Anakin wasn't getting things his way and the possibility of losing his wife, which Anakin ended up causing himself.

    Add spoiled and traitorous to that list of adjectives.
  20. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Chill out, obviously you're a fan, but there is no reason to get this upset.

    Obviously it's my opinion, I said it, nobody else.

    I answered the question, I gave you the reasons why he was so angry.

    Logical reasons are irrelevant to someone with those traits.

    Oh, and I don't think I ever said "I don't like Anakin so who gives a crap why he was upset?".
    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy likes this.
  21. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    What is there to complain about? Perhaps the fact that they are using him without regard to the legality of their actions and completely ignoring the fact that they can't have it both ways. If they want Anakin to be on the Council, then they must given him the full rank and privileges associated with that status. To do otherwise is simply an abuse of power. He's not a pawn for them to use in their game against Palpatine, plain and simple. If they need to spy on the Chancellor, then they should have someone volunteer for the job considering its illegality. Their decision has effectively backed Anakin into a corner. To give you a real-world example, imagine a student council that has recently accepted a classmate that the principal appointed. Yet they tell this student that he isn't to be a "real" member with voting privileges and they want him to spy on the principal. Would that not come across as insulting and duplicitous?

    And how do we know that Anakin isn't the first on the Council without being a Master? Obi-Wan certainly doesn't correct him.

    Yes, the Jedi took him in and trained him. But they also exploited him and cut his ties to his loved ones. He served them throughout a period of war, so it's not as though he has done nothing in return. And to say that Padme's death was mere possibility ignores the fact that his mother also died under the exact same circumstances. His reaction and fear in regards to his dream are not unreasonable.
  22. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Actually you didn't. You called Anakin names, but you didn't give reasons that he was upset. Saying "He was upset because he's a spoiled brat" is not giving reasons that he was upset, it's calling him a spoiled brat. Which you are entitled to believe, but again, it doesn't contribute much to the discussion. What are people supposed to respond with, exactly? "Yes he certainly is!" or "No he's not!" Either way--again, not much of a discussion.

    In other words, someone (real or fictional) that you personally dislike because of X, Y or Z traits, could not have a genuine reason for being upset over a situation that we are describing here?

    By saying "Anakin is arrogant/whiny/etc. so none of the reasons he was upset matter," that is essentially what you are saying.

    And PiettsHat, again, well said.

    Anakin's mother fed him, clothed him, housed him, and loved him, and the Jedi Order told him that he could have no further contact with her. That is flat-out inhumane (and don't tell me Anakin had a choice, he was nine years old and a slave). If the philosophy of "detachment" was so wonderful, I'm pretty sure Luke would have kept it when he formed the New Jedi Order.
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    He's only on the Council because of Palpatine's suggestion, he didn't earn it. You don't automatically get promoted to Master just because you're on the Council, it's just traditional for anyone appointed to the Council to already be a Master. Ki-Adi-Mundi was on the Council as a Knight at one point and was later promoted.

    If Anakin had a problem with being appointed to the Council and not being promoted (gasps), he should have declined the appointment. It's been done many times before. He also could have declined to spy on the Chancellor. They can't force him to do anything, both he and all Jedi know this.

    Is it actually confirmed he couldn't vote or speak on anything? I mean, he did speak, they just didn't agree with him. It didn't really last long enough for us to know, because he decided to kill them all instead of waiting his turn and seeing how things go.

    I think your example isn't quite apt.....maybe more like a young kid (a talented one) who has worked a few years for a Fortune 500 company being named to the board, only given the least status. Who wouldn't take t
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    It's in the novelization.

    And then later when Anakin offered to go to Kashyyk, we get this:

    Now I'm curious--why is the Jedi Council absolved of any responsibility here? Why was Anakin just supposed to bow down and kiss their asses after they asked him to commit treason? Because they were Jedi?

    Anakin could have declined the appointment, but they could have also refused to grant him the appointment in the first place if they had such a problem with him being a Council member. So why didn't they? Because they needed to use him. I can't blame him for not taking too well to being used by the people who were supposed to love him and be his family.
  25. FalorWindrider Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2010
    star 4
    Anakin was extremely whiny and arrogant, but the Jedi wanted to use him as a spy. Part of that process is satisfying his ego enough to keep him content, so that he would not betray them. They give him a seat with no voting powers (which is unprecedented; part of being on the Council was decision making), treat him with either condescension or thinly-veiled hostility, and when he does make any comments, they are casually tossed aside with backhanded insults or outright hostility.

    Are the Jedi walking around with signs reading "Too dumb to live" stamped on their back? They failed to realize that, the moment they made Anakin spy on Palpatine, he was more than a Jedi Knight. He was a resource, and they were his handlers. Treating him like crap and making him feel unwanted was the fastest way to make him defect. Not to mention, he was already brimming with resentment at everything having to do with the Jedi.

    The honor of being on the Council means nothing if the Council itself treated him like dirt. Ordinarily, this would mean he would throw a fit and the Jedi would get mad. But now he is in direct contact with their mark and they continue to treat him like dirt. What idiots.
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