Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DBrennan3333, Nov 7, 2004.

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  1. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    About post modernism, for gezvader...

    "QUOTATION: The postmodern reply to the modern consists of recognizing that the past, since it cannot really be destroyed, because its destruction leads to silence, must be revisited: but with irony, not innocently. I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows he cannot say to her, ?I love you madly? because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, ?As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.?

    ATTRIBUTION: Umberto Eco (b. 1932), Italian semiologist, novelist. ?Postmodernism, Irony, the Enjoyable,? Reflections on the Name of the Rose (1983, trans. 1984)."

    That was taken from Bartleby.com (a great site).
  2. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    The newer films are of a better standard than the old ones, that's why the old ones neew to be brought up to that new level - Lucas keeps raising the bar with everything he does :D
  3. Qu_Klaani Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2004
    star 4
    There was a program on over the weekend about the top 100 most seen films in Britain, going off amount of tickets sold and not the actual amount of money made.

    Both Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace were seen by more people that Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, and of course Star Wars was much higher than any of its sequels/prequels, coming 4th.

    Im cant comment on the American media but in Britain it certainly seemed to me at the time that Attack of the clones got generally quite posiitive reviews.

    Heres the list of the top 100 if you're interested:

    http://www.channel4.com/film/newsfeatures/microsites/U/ultimate_film/index.html
  4. Jed_Chronos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2004

    Both Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace were seen by more people that Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, and of course Star Wars was much higher than any of its sequels/prequels, coming 4th.

    Are you implying quality is measured by how many people see a movie?

    Does that mean that Independence Day is better than Blade Runner, for example?

    Can you honestly say that just as many people would have seen Episodes I and II if they existed in a vacuum, independent of the OT?
  5. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
  6. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Well, since this thread puts forth the claim that the public didn't like AotC, the number of people who saw the film is certainly pertinent.
  7. Jed_Chronos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2004

    Well, since this thread puts forth the claim that the public didn't like AotC, the number of people who saw the film is certainly pertinent.

    It's not a claim...it's a fact. The PT isn't as widely loved and revered as the OT. If you weren't around when the OT was released, I can understand your skepticism...but believe me, I was. There is no comparison to the reaction of the public to those two trilogies.

    Box office receipts don't mean a thing...it's the reaction to the film after one leaves the theater that's important. Notice how the marketing for these films has downshifted since Episode I was panned? The need isn't there as it was when the OT was released.

    You like the PT, fine. I do too, in my own way. I'm just not deluded enough to believe the world, by and large, feels the same way about these films as the public did for the OT. In fact, nostalgia for the OT is the main pull of many people to the theaters in the first place...

    And Nameless...do you have anything of substance to add to any thread you participate in?
  8. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
  9. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    It's not a claim...it's a fact. The PT isn't as widely loved and revered as the OT. If you weren't around when the OT was released, I can understand your skepticism...but believe me, I was. There is no comparison to the reaction of the public to those two trilogies.

    Box office receipts don't mean a thing...it's the reaction to the film after one leaves the theater that's important. Notice how the marketing for these films has downshifted since Episode I was panned? The need isn't there as it was when the OT was released.

    You like the PT, fine. I do too, in my own way. I'm just not deluded enough to believe the world, by and large, feels the same way about these films as the public did for the OT. In fact, nostalgia for the OT is the main pull of many people to the theaters in the first place...


    Absolutely.

    Note Alec Guinness in EIII trailer. Even LFL knows to use the OT to sell the PT...
  10. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Well, I DO remember the OT when it first came out. I will agree that the OT has been better received than the PT, but I can't agree that AotC was not loved by the public and media.

    First, we have to remember that we are dealing with a different type of movie audience. For better or worse, they have seen more sci-fi special effect epics than we had when Star Wars first came out. In some ways, the filmgoers have a higher standard when it comes to action, dialogue, and the use of special effects.

    Of course, there's also a higher demand for cookie cutter predictable films. Movies that push boundaries or disrupt conventions are not always well received - look at Sky Captain.

    "Notice how the marketing for these films has downshifted since Episode I was panned? The need isn't there as it was when the OT was released."

    TPM was over-marketed. I can't dispute that. But that does not have anything to do with how well AotC is received. And the marketing for AotC has been spot on - look at the excellent merchandise or spin offs (Clone Wars comes to mind).

  11. MrC123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 4
    The original Star Wars was the first of its kind and that is the reason so many people hold it in such high regard. But if you look at Star Wars, most of it wasn't that original. Even the plot wasn't particularly original: save the people and damsel, defeat the bad guys, etc. It was dungens and dragons in space with the Force (magic) and Jedi (wizards) among other things. It was mostly the look of Star Wars that dazzeled so many people. Don't get me wrong, I love the OT more than almost any other movies.

    But bashing PT for its differences is ridiculous. The PT mirrors the OT in so many ways, I can't believe so many people don't see it. For people saying Anakin was a whinner: Luke had to get it from somewhere. Luke whinned more in one minute of ANH than all of Anakin's whinning in AOTC. People complaining the plot didn't make sense in AOTC don't understand that the whole movie is a mystery to be answered in ROTS. The great thing about AOTC is how it ties so many things together: the Death Star, the Lars homestead, Anakins spiral into the darkside, etc.

    In addition, with the way movies, video games, etc. are today, people have been spoiled (in my opinion) as to how good movies look. Those saying AOTC looked like a video game might as well say that ROTJ looked like the Muppet Show. I mean, you could see the strings on most of the puppets! For those people who think that the PT is so bad, here's a test: watch the OT and PT in any order back to back. Personally, I think the PT goes toe to toe with the OT.

    People who want to dislike the PT will always find reasons, and they are entitled to their opinions. I grew up watching the OT and loved it. Now that I'm older, I've been watching the PT, and I love that too. They have their differences and similarities, but contrary to critic's popular beliefs, the PT is excellent. The same people hating on AOTC probably didn't like ROTJ either. This is just my opinion and I'm sure many people disagree with me, but such is a great discussion :)
  12. Qu_Klaani Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2004
    star 4
    "Are you implying quality is measured by how many people see a movie?"

    No but its popularity certainly is, the debate here is not wether or not the film is good, but wether or not is what popular.

    "Does that mean that Independence Day is better than Blade Runner, for example?"

    It mean it was more popular with the people.

  13. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    What about awards and Oscars? They're always a perfect judge of quality - look how many Titanic picked up ;)
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well the classic trilogy was all surface. Any kid in the street is going to pick up on what makes it great within a couple of viewings. The prequels are just so much more complex and meaningful, that a lot of people will take years to undertsand what makes them better than the classic trilogy.

  15. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    Wait untill the kids who have seen the new movies are grown up - Lucas' genius will be vindicated in the end - he knows what he's doing [face_mischief]
  16. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    I wouldn't go as far as to say that the original trilogy is superficial, as there are many theme and metaphors such as the Force as a philosophy and a moral guideline. Some would argue that the Prequels are superficial than the original.

  17. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Of course the classic trilogy is more superficial than the prequels.

    Who would dispute that?

    I guess the same people who are taking so long to see the substance of the prequels.
  18. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    OT (Simpler themes + better development = Substance and Meaning)

    PT (Complex themes + no development = Little substance and meaning)
  19. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I disagree for the many, many reasons I have stated before.
  20. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    How could one say there is no development in the prequels?

    It's useless trying to argue with people who decided the movies sucked before they came up with their arguments for it sucking.
  21. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    What's the criteria for "development?"
  22. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Even LFL knows to use the OT to sell the PT...

    This will ensure we don't need flashbacks in the episodes itself. [face_devil]
  23. BauconBatista Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2004
    star 4
    Guys...

    Earlier in this topic, somebody posted that Ewan McGregor finally understood WHY the first two prequels ended up as they did after reading the script for ROTS.

    Come ROTS, everything will make sense. Only at the end, will you understand [face_devil]

    (...and why is it that every other line from the OT can be used to speak favorably of the PT?)
  24. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    "Let's face it, Star Wars (OT) changed the way movies are seen. And so it makes sense that the reception a movie receives nowadays is different from what happenned when a movie was popular in the late seventies/early eighties."

    "Nah, the public was so ready for Episode I, and it just didn't deliver. People wanted an exciting and imaginative franchise, a la Lord of the Rings, and the prequels failed to deliver that on so many levels. People wanted Star Wars back...they weren't down on it originally just because they weren't the OT. People got upset because they were so inferior to the OT that the hype didn't match what they were seeing on the screen. Rationalize it any way you want...

    Both of you were right.

    NeoBaggins<----- Doesnt have to wait years to see the greatness in a film. If its in there, he will see it right then and there.
  25. Jed_Chronos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2004

    Come ROTS, everything will make sense. Only at the end, will you understand.

    It's not that Episodes I and II don't make sense...it's just that they're not good.

    Regardless of how good or bad Episode III is, the first two will never get any better.

    Episode III can't put emotion into Hayden Christensen's lackluster delivery, or convince us that Padme is really in love with creepy, obsessed Anakin. Episode III can't excise the festering boil that is Jar Jar Binks, or dub over that annoying chortle of the pod race announcer.

    How will it help?
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