Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DBrennan3333, Nov 7, 2004.

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  1. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Well, at the end of AotC, Anakin had killed in anger (Tuskens), duelled in anger (Dooku), and married which was against the Council's mandate of 'no personal attachments'. He was being selfish, and did not seem to see that his actions were more self serving than a Jedi's actions should be.

    As for Obi Wan at the end of TPM... Obi Wan didn't have to turn around and take part in the Clone Wars right after he killed Maul. Anakin's agressive personality was fed by the galactic conflict and personal manipulations of Palpatine. Obi Wan, on the other hand, had enough time to see that killing in anger was wrong.
  2. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    I understand your point of view Mimic. Thanks for sharing.

    However, for some, it didn't appear Anakin rose to great hero status and then become a villain within the context of Attack of the Clones, as Luke Skywalker gave into his agression and failed in the cave on Dagobah.
  3. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Admittedly, he was more of a hero in TPM than in Aotc. In Clones, he was always at least partly self serving.
  4. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    I would agree with that Mimic. Anakin was, for the most part, self serving, which is why I never got the sense he was this great Jedi within the context of Episode II as described in the original trilogy. Anakin really didn't demonstrate uncommon valor.
  5. Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    By the way, Boba Fett got his NAME when his action figure was manufactured for ROTJ (it was in the trivia of Star Wars: Behind The Magic, so that's official info).

    Errr......wrong info then.
    Boba was first introduced in the Holiday Special in November 1978.
    [image=http://membres.lycos.fr/bobafettlevrai/hpbimg/bobaholly.jpg]
    The year after that his action figure was released:
    Vintage Boba Fett figure (from Rebelscum.com's photo archives)

    I don't exactly know the whole context of Boba here but it's probably about bashing how AOTC ruined the legacy but IMO that's not really the case. The way I see it kids will like Boba even more through the fact they see him as a kid meaning they can identify with him.
    Anyway, why wasn't AOTC loved by the public and media?
    Here are my guesses:

    The media (especially every major Hollywood biased media source) hates GL
    Low promotion (SW is a spectacular but AOTC really wasn't around anywhere) it only seemed to have a lukewarm promotion
    Lack of double standart which Spiderman and LOTR had ("It's new, it's cool!")
  6. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    Darth Mimic "When i go back for my PhD, I want to write a thesis on Star Wars. "


    I'm intrigued. What's the basis for your thesis?
  7. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Gothic elements in pop culture - Star Wars and Buffy as two examples. Plus, the OT is a great piece of feminist filmmaking.

    As for Lucas... I think part of the reason he wasn't well received by some media outlets is because he isn't part of the Hollywood scene. The cult of celebrity that exists in Hollywood filmmaking has been known to kill the careers of lesser filmmakers.

    Also, Lucas is more democrat than Republican. While I do not think this impacts the quality of the film, I was struck by how antagonistic some news groups in the U.S. are to left leaning issues and individuals (Noam Chomsky discusses this, as well). So, despite the fact that Lucas has created a charitable organization for children's education, or the groundbreaking work he has done for film, Lucas is villified in the media.

    Go figure.
  8. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    Gothic elements in pop culture - Star Wars and Buffy as two examples. Plus, the OT is a great piece of feminist filmmaking.

    Interesting. I never thought of Star Wars as Gothic elements. Do you have a Thesis Statement? I'd love to know what it is, if you have one. I don't quite follow you on how the original trilogy is feminist filmaking. Please explain. I'm always interested in such interpretations.
  9. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Nathanelm?I have read the last 4 pages and you make excellent arguments. You are very skilled at making reasoned arguments. I completely agree with your points.

    And within AOTC Anakin is not a hero. He is also certainly not virtuous. So there certainly is no tragedy in him falling to the dark side. Even to a casual observer of the film it seems pretty obvious that he is the one Jedi in AOTC most likely to turn evil.
  10. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Well, if we just look at AotC, we know that Anakin is petulant, willful, and angry. These are, of course, all of the characteristics Luke had in ESB. The similarities don't end there, but are striking.
  11. BenduHopkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Star Wars movies go through phases for the public.

    0) Anticipation
    1) Hype and Hooplah
    2) "They say its not as good as the old ones" (though most people can't differentiate between or remember the old ones very well.)
    3) An early glowing review saying its better than the last one getting everyone's hopes up for a movie better than the sum of their hazy memory of all the films combined.
    4) Opening day
    5) Split critics reviews/split audience reviews
    6) Vocal detractors/Silent supporters
    7) Silence
    8) DVD release and repeate 5 thru 7
    9) Broader silent appeal and rewatching on TV and DVD
    10) non-differentiation between OT and PT, "is this one of the old ones or one of the new ones?"
  12. Padmes_love_slave24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2003
    star 2
    I think the heroes in AOTC are much more difficult to relate to than the the OT heroes. I think their is one important comparison that people ignore in comparing the heroes of the OT and the PT. You must take in the account the situation are heroes are in. Let's start with the OT, in the time of the OT it is a time of REBELLION, they are the underdogs, that is why they are so easy to route for. They have almost lost everything, Leia is fighting for her life, Han is the classic rebel, and Luke is a farm boy who is thrust into a role by Obi Wan of being a simple farm boy to training to become a Jedi. The OT heroes seem to make all their decisions on the fly. The PT heroes are blinded by their arrogance, in the Phantom Menace their has had been peace for a long period of time, they are not use to having to go to war, they are use to the comfort of peace. Towards the end of Episode 2 they seem to be finally waking up and realizing that they are going to have fight for their lives, even at the end Yoda has to remind Obi Wan how their situation is starting to become desperate. I love both sets of heroes for different reasons.
  13. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    I'd never thought of the characterization that way... Good points. But I don't think that, on one level, we are meant to sympathize with Anakin.
  14. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    Padmes_love_slave2,

    Interesting and agreeable points. The characters of the prequels are not really struggling against anything, as they are pretty much situated in a peaceful state. Therefore, in this peaceful situation, the characters aren't embarking on any type of a hero's journey and are, for the most part, giving into their own arrogance and self-involvement. I guess that's what this next generation of heroes consist of.




  15. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    Is George trying to tell us something? [face_thinking]
  16. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    ^ Perhaps he's telling a story without true heroes and positive role models.
  17. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
  18. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    [image=http://www.liketelevision.com/web1/classictv/jcarson/jckarnak211.jpg] Hard to read as to why.
  19. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Beaten to it... Hmmm...
  20. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    Well, we may not know why, but only that it is a story with heroes without virtue.
  21. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    Did Obi Wan say that Anakin was the hero of the Clone Wars in the beginning or ...;)

  22. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    Anakin is the talk of the town this week.

    I was wondering- what has Anakin done thus far that can be labled as "HEROIC"?
  23. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    Anakin is not a classical 'hero' in the same manner as Luke Skywalker. This is a very deliberate storytelling decision on the part of George Lucas. Anakin is the 'protagonist', but is not heroic. I like the contrast that Lucas has created here; Anakin is tortured and moody, while Luke is a more straightforward, archetypal 'hero'. I happen to enjoy this particular approach, as it lends itself to exploring a level of psychological complexity that was previously (excuse the pun) quite 'alien' to the "Star Wars" universe.
  24. Sith_Sensei__Prime Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    Nice pun, though. :)

    I don't know. Having the prequels without a heroic figure is like have a Christmas without a Santa Claus.

    I do understand how Anakin could be viewed as moody and tortured. In fact, it has been surmised that Anakin was jusitified in turning toward the dark side due to his circumstances and situation.

    And I would say it's agreeable that Anakin wasn't the great and powerful Jedi as described in the Original Trilogy within the context of Episode II.
  25. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Why is he supposed to be?

    Without spoiling too much, there is another Episode ya know?
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