Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?

Let's put an end to this "The new trilogy isn't liked because it's DARK" bullcrap.

(1) Being dark has zero influence on a movie's gross. The #1 movie of all time is about a boat that sinks killing 1,200 innocents, including the story's protagonist. Two R-rated movies were beloved, "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Passion," even though they made AOTC's story seem like a Sunday School fable.

(2) AOTC isn't "dark" anyway. Well, scratch that. The film school-quality DV images were so dark that people in the audience couldn't see others gagging, but the movie itself was corn-puff, PG-rated material. It wasn't "Dark." It was "Bad."

As long as you guys keep pretending AOTC was good, we stand no chance of getting a better product next time around. You people are like the fans of a sports team that just finished in last place going "Great work guys! Keep it up!"

I just want the series to end with a good movie. AOTC was so embarassingly awful that I find it hard to even respect the original. It makes me feel like those were just a mirage I had or something.

 

The movie had no legs at the box office and I'm sure that DVD sales after the first week (when all the loyalists bought it) were nil.

From Rottentomatoes.com:

BOX OFFICE SUMMARY
Box Office Total: $310,301,696
Box Office Opening: $80,027,814
No. of Weeks at #1: 2
No. of Weeks in Top 10: 7

VHS RENTALS REVENUE SUMMARY
VHS Rentals Total: $8,660,000
VHS Rentals Opening: $4,070,000
No. of Weeks in Top 10: 3

I don't know what your exact definition of legs at the box office is but $310,301,696 is a whole lotta dough in my book.

EDIT: Meh, kinda beaten.

 

That opening weekend figure is worthless because it doesn't include its Thursday release. It made $10 or $15 mil opening weekend which, with your one-dimensional figures, seem to have been earned with word of mouth.

Furthermore, the following weekend was a Memorial Day which is huge for EVERY movie. After that, AOTC fizzled out like Ashley Simpson singing opera.

And those video rental figures? Don't they prove my point?

 

^^^ Not necessarily, since VHS was/is on its' last legs...

 

As long as you guys keep pretending AOTC was good...

As long as you keep making statements like these, you will have the respect of absolutely zero people on these boards.

 

I didn't say the saga was hated because it was dark. I was suggesting some Star Wars fans may not like it because it's a very different story and *type* of storytelling.

Take a chill pill, man. Nothing as insignificant as a movie is worth this much passion. Especially if you claim to hate it so much. Right now, your behavior is just making you look pathetic.

 

As I said, if you liked it as an individual, that's your business, but it is an empirical fact that most people who saw the movie did not enjoy it. Calling me a 'troll' or slobbering over your DVD won't change that fact for a second.

What is with the obsession that some people have in equating the quality of a movie with how much money it makes at the box office. I mean yes it gives a quantitative indication of the hype and buzz as well the success of its marketing campaign but in no way should it tell you if people actually liked it or not. Like you said its a subjective matter and personal accounts of hearing people comment on it while you're taking a leak cannot be genaralized to statements such as

it is an empirical fact that most people who saw the movie did not enjoy it.

NOBODY EXCEPT STAR WARS FANS LIKED ATTACK OF THE CLONES. NOBODY. People, at best, found it a forgettable romp.

And when I say it sucks....understand that I clearly have the feelings of the American people to back me up.

I mean take the movie Das Boot you mentioned, are you going to equate its quality by the number of people who saw it at the movies when it was re-released or are you going to form your own mind about it regardless of statistics? in any event why should you care that your own opinion might be in the minority or majority?

they're the ones who love lame lines like 'Rise Lord Vader' even though Vader is strapped down....they've satisfied their petty obsessions and destroyed a trilogy.

Welcome to your own opinion. Population you.

The visuals you see and dialogue you hear in the trailer don't necessarily have to match. It's a good way to misdirect people into thinking they know everything about the plot and that their own beliefs are absolute.....

Look I'm not a fanboy and I do criticise SW but I also enjoy it for what it is, an entertaining story, nothing more and nothing less. I dont have to feel embarrassed by what other people think about SW nor try to reiterate and obsess over every technical, artisitc, scientific, chronological, statistical and philosophical flaw of a 6 part movie saga!

Like other posters have said, relax and keep things in perspective. So what if the 'general public and media' don't like AOTC? If you want to discuss/critique a movie fine, but stop using irrelevant comparisons between 'us' and 'them' by invalidly equating quality with quantity to support your views. At the end of the day there is nothing to prove to the 'general public & media' or anyone else for that matter, it's not a competition and there is no prize at the end.

 

DBrennan3333,

I think you missed the point or didn't get the film. AOTC is, in my mind, and many others, one of the best Star Wars films.

It made a fortune (yes, it did receive MIXED reactions from critics) and has a ton of fantastic stuff in it: the start of the clone wars, a rather complex plot, huge battles, padme in a tight fitting ripped "battle suit", christopher lee...

Are you nuts, or just a little stupid? This film rocked, you are, of course entitled to your opinion...

Go watch the mario brothers movie or something... that should give you something more substantial to moan about...

Peace!

 

Here is DBrennan3333's bio as of 2:32am 11/08/04. I edited for language:

The grandness of my existance is far greater than the 2,000 character limit they allow. One could not possibly encapsulate the courage, the adventures, the romance, of my life in a mere 2,000 words.....

I'm just screwing around. Aside from the obvious interest, I like to read, write, and draw, as well as watch movies and study systems. I just wrote THE GREATEST SCI-FI STORY EVER TOLD and am open to any options about how to get money out of the fu***r.

I seriously doubt you just wrote the GREATEST SCI-FI STORY EVER TOLD. You can barely write your own mini-biography. Wow, talk about ego. You know, George Lucas is smart enough to make money out of his creation, why can't YOU figure out how to make money off of your "masterpiece"? You make not like his movie, but at least he's bright enough to know how to build a career. That's why he's a billionaire and owns the most successful independent film production company on planet Earth. Unlike the hot air in your bio, George's success is real.

BTW, AOTC came out two and a half years ago.
Brennan, I suggest you move on. You're just
now getting around to complaining? This site has a Basher's Sanctuary in the COMMUNITY forum for people who enjoy beating dead horses. I think you'll be very happy there. And God Bless You.

And AOTC sold 649 million dollars worth of tickets at the box office world-wide. Somebody liked it.

 

Dear DBrennan3333,

i've read hundreds of posts like yours. Those, like yours are hopelessly ill-informed and full of vague estimates and generalisations. I've read all your posts and so far your most convincing argument seems to be 'AotC is crap because i didnt like it'. and when you come across people who dared to like the film you brand them as phonies and Lucas slaves. Its weak mate, weak and unconvincing. The vague things you refer to- AotC 'flopped', the American audience hated it, and (my favourite) 'some people laughed at it in the toliet after' are nothing more than attempts to avoid an argument rather than to construct one, because the fact is youve got nothing. like a kid who thinks the winner of the argument is the one who shouts the loudest. You also ignore the success of AotC outside of America (i was in Japan when it was released, and it was huge there for example). how you could continue an argument when you have absolutly nothing to substantiate it is beyond me.

that being said, feel free to continue, your posts are pretty entertaining.

Peace.

 

man, this is YOUR opinion, stop talking like that, I loved aotc, but I thought his old fashionned(star wars) style won't have too much success for non fans, but i'm really astounished because almost everytime i heard people talkin bout aotc, they loved it more than i expected... moreover, the image is not dark but very coloured.... your arguments are simply bad, and even more as you don't accept to discuss

 

Okay, AOTC was awesome!

Now we've got one more Star Wars movie. How good does it make you feel to know that it's going to be a spiritual sibling to AOTC?

Again, the new Star Wars movie will make 50% of its money opening weekend after which time all sane people who entered the theater will advise their friends that they're better off spending their money elsewhere.

Again, some movie will completely humiliate Star Wars as 'Spiderman' did last time by making 33% more money and being beloved by the people. Star Wars will come with a bang and be forgotten with a whimper.

AOTC was the first time that a Star Wars movie wasn't the #1 movie the year it was released. Get used to it because we're in for more of the same with ROTS.

Lucas is surrounded by yes-men and enablers like you people and he's become blind to reality. (Not to mention old. Creativity plummets after age 30.)

 

Sorry, what!?

"Creativity plummets after 30"???

That's the funniest **** I've ever heard!!! LOL!!!

how old was Tolkien when he wrote (or finished) Lord of the Rings? In his 60's or 70's I think (correct me if I'm wrong).

TOLKIEN WAS NOT 30 WHEN HE WROTE THAT HUGELY SUCCESSFUL TOME.

And Lucas is MIGHTY creative... as are millions of people over 30... How many Sci-fi writers wrote their best stuff after 30? How many directors, artists, musicians get better with age???

What the heck makes you believe "creativity plummets after 30"???

You are digging your grave here. Stop while you're "ahead".

Sorry if I sound a little angry, I'm actually enjoying this quite a bit, really.

Have your opinions (everyone is entitled), but don't try and pass them off as unsubstantiated "facts"... I don't know where you get your delusions, lazer brain...

 

"It made $10 or $15 mil opening weekend which, with your one-dimensional figures, seem to have been earned with word of mouth."

lol. the film made over $650 MILLION world wide (yes, that includes all those little places outside America). was all that through word of mouth? or repeat viewings perhaps?

at any rate, your view that sales equals quality is the refuge of the weak my friend. or do you think that Titantic is the best that cinema has to offer? or that Britney Spears is the height of musical artistry?

"Again, some movie will completely humiliate Star Wars as 'Spiderman' did last time by...being beloved by the people"

i love comments like this. you cant back them up, but you keep making them anyway. this one argument you have (if you have another please let me know) wont wash because simply, it cant be proved. its about as convincing as you trying to explain how AotC failed because some people were laughing about it in the toliet (lol! still cant get over that one!). but like i said before, your attempts are futile, and you dont have a leg to stand on, but youre adding a bit of spirit and flavour to the board at least.

 

DBrennan - It's all your OPINION. You have to understand that in art, everything is relative. Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it rubbish. Just because a movie made less money than its predecessor doesn't make it rubbish. You don't like it and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't try and justify your opinion as fact. It's a fact that AotC made less money than the others, yes; it's a fact that a lot of people didn't like it; but that does NOT mean it's a fact that it's a bad movie. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban made less money than the other two films, yet to me, it's a lot, lot better. The Shawshank Redemption was a huge flop at the box office and wasn't always recieved well critically, but it's now considered one of the greatest films of all time. AotC made less money than TPM, but I enjoy AotC more than TPM, on the whole. I don't care how much AotC grossed; I don't care what the critics and often unqualified tabloid "film critic" journlists think; I only care about what I enjoy, and I enjoyed that movie. To me, it's a great movie, and I love watching it.

 

Regarding my claim that Spiderman, which came out within a few weeks of AOTC (and absolutely trounced it at the B.O.) was more beloved by the people: No, of course it cannot be PROVEN. It's what we call casual empiricism. You cannot PROVE that people are collectively moved by this, that, or the other, but the evidence is so overwhelming that it's best to just accept it as fact and move on.

Regarding the claim that AOTC is analogous to 'Shawshank Redemption'....Christ, these two movies are more diametrically opposed than Karl Marx and Adam Smith.

Shawshank without a huge marketing campaign or large ceremony, bombed at the B.O. Over time, however, on the video market, where word-of-mouth ultimately reigns king, 'Shawshank' earned immortality. Another example of this is the movie 'Office Space.'

Conversely, AOTC opened HUGE, $100 mil within its first few days, and then, once the Star Wars fanatics had seen it and the holiday weekend passed, AOTC fizzled into oblivion.

Even with its massive marketing budget, even with the cover of 'Time' magazine, even with the previously-good reputation of the Star Wars movies....AOTC was simply was too big a piece of crap. In theory, it should have been liked, but reality proved it to be a pretentious and drab movie. People put their money into "Spiderman," "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," and "Signs." They simply did not like AOTC.

 

Then good for them. But I liked it. And alot of other people like it. And alot of people didn't like it. You didn't like it. We get it. So if you could drop it and stop stroking your pretentious ego, we could all have a good day now.

 

Chaotic Serenity:

You're missing my point when you tell me to forget about AOTC. Of course I usually just forive and forget when I see a bad movie. I don't like Lord of the Rings, so I just don't watch them or talk about them.

But when you people PRETEND to like AOTC (and, no, I don't believe that you people honestly enjoyed it, other than for the novelty of it being Star Wars) you're further encouraging Lucas&Co. further down the dark path.

Listen....the original movies were great and even TPM was true in its spirit. AOTC sucked. The sooner we stop denying that there is a problem, the Lucas&Co. will fix the problem. If not, the Star Wars movies will end with a disaster when ROTS is released (and I'm not talking about Anakin turning into Vader.)

Now that I think about it....did you people even like the original movies?

 

you took one of my points out of context, and chose to totally ignore the rest. that doesnt help your case really.

"Regarding my claim that Spiderman, which came out within a few weeks of AOTC (and absolutely trounced it at the B.O.)"

hmm, interesting choice of verb there. earlier on, you said it 'beat' (again, lets remember what you said was only applicable to America, but more on that in a second) AotC by 33% at the box office. Is that "trouncing" to you? you have an interesting grasp of the English language if it is.

lets look at it from this perspective- how many films have you seen that you thought were bad? a lot? I know I have. isnt it possible that a lot of those people who saw Spiderman didnt like it? that is wasnt "beloved" to them? that they only saw it because nothing else was on? because their friend dragged them to it? of course i'm not saying that everyone was like that, but a certain percentage of the audience didnt like it, just like a certain percentage of the audience didnt like AotC. Simply giving your money to the cinema is not the same thing as saying "I like this movie", yet you seem to think that it is. and theres other factors involved like the amount of screens it was released in (spiderman was released in more).

heres my other question again- do you think that box office take equals quality?

"People put their money into.."My Big Fat Greek Wedding,""

total domestic $241,438,208.

"and "Signs."""

total domestic $227,966,634 (and opening on 1000 more screens than AotC) those figures rather make a mess of your 'theory' dont you think?

If signs and wedding were ABSOLUTLY TROUNCED (and i use that verb with confidance)at the box office by AotC, then according to your theory that means that AotC is more beloved than both of those films in the eyes of the public, right? it means that it is a better film than those two films (as well as all the other films it beat out that year) right? so shouldnt you be praising AotC rather than attacking it?

"They simply did not like AOTC."

I asked this question last time. you ignored it, so i'll ask it again. if thats the case, how can you explain AotC's 650 million global intake? and PLEASE dont say 'it was the SW fanatics'.

EDIT- lets take your theory to its logical conclusion. AotC was the third biggest seller in 2002. YES, THE THIRD. which surely means that it is in fact beloved by the American public right? more so than all the other films in the top 30 that year (most of which, I might add, opened in MORE screens than AotC). anything more to add, or shall we consider this discussion closed?

 

I wasn't comparing Shawshank to AotC in terms of the movies, but I was pointing out that box office and critical acclaim means nothing about how good a movie is - the only important measure in your mind. Although the thread title has been changed, you said in this thread, "The only way you can actually ENJOY the movie is if you're so fixated on Star Wars that anytime you see the characters you get giddy and transfixed, like a guy who loves his sports team even when they clearly suck." You're not talking about whether the movie was loved by the public or media or not - you stated this as a fact. No "in my opinion". You stated that. I believe you're wrong. I like the movie. There are things I don't like in it. There are things I don't like in all the SW movies. But overall, I love them all, with their faults. Making such broad, general statements like this, you completely undermine your argument.

 

People put their money into "Spiderman"

Spiderman made must of it's money in it's first two weeks. Once Attack of the Clones came out it was on top and Spiderman was not. If not for opening two weeks ahead of Attack of the Clones the chances of Spiderman making that amount it did may not have been the same.

"My Big Fat Greek Wedding"

This was out for almust a whole year. It was big but not that big. It was more for the old group of people.

"Signs"

Come on this movie came out like three months after Attack of the Clones. So how on earth can you even say it was more well liked when Attack of the Clones and Signs never went up against each other. And no not every one likes Signs.

Oh and Spiderman was on the top of the box office for two weeks. Attack of the Clones for three.

Oh and what is liked by mass amounts of people does not always = good. I don't care how many CD's Usher sells. That does not mean he is the best singer. I don't care how many CD's Linkin Park sells and how many people like them. That does not make them a good metal band or what every they are.

Being well liked dose not = good. Being loved by the mass public does not = good.

 

We know that AOTC made the least amount of inflation-adjusted dollars of any of the Star Wars movies.

We know after its inevitable HUGE opening week, AOTC fizzled from view.

Hell, I give up.

If you guys are happy with these movies appealing only to little niches of your latest fetish instead of to something honest and grand, fine. The movie was BAD.

The whole reason I wrote this is because I just rented the DVD and I literally just turned it off after an hour. The acting was a dramatic embarassment, the images were flat and lifeless, the characterization was phony as hell. I just threw in 'October Sky' and had a great two hours with that.

Yeah, that's my opinon. But, like I said....there's a reason that AOTC was BY FAR the lowest-earning of the five movies. And wasn't because it was "dark." It wasn't dark. It wasn't because Americans are dumb or shallow. It wasn't because of bad luck.

It's because the movie was simply bad. I think if you guys would stop giving Lucas false compliments then maybe ROTS could be different. But you guys are a big enough market that he no longer has to worry about appealing to mankind....he just gratifies the fetishists.

It wasn't even the little things that made AOTC bad, it was the entire spirit of the movie: phony, self-important, dumb.

 

Dude it was no top for three weeks that is not going away. It was the 3rd highest grossing movie of 2002.

And you know you seem to speand more time bashing the fans who like it then the movie. You amy want to be careful about that.

 

"Hell, I give up."

no, come on keep it up. you can start by making an attempt to answer any of the things i brought up in my last post, all of which discredited your theory.

 

I'm enjoying this. Please keep the bashing coming!