Why was AOTC not loved by the public and media?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DBrennan3333, Nov 7, 2004.

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  1. Frank1212 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2001
    star 3
    The two main things that made AOTC "bad" in the public's eye:

    1) Poor acting and dialogue.
    2) Bad screenplay.

    I think the 1 and 2 are related. Without a good screenplay even the best actors/actresses will be hard pressed to bring out a good performance. I admit, a lot of the lines in AOTC were cheesy, particularly the love scenes. But in addition to the dialogue, the love story was built up poorly as well. We go from Padme shutting down Anakin by saying, "No, I should not have done that" to suddenly, "I've been dying a little bit each day since you left my life."
  2. NeoBaggins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5
    "We live in a real world, come back to it" YIKES!

    The public and media hated AOTC because it was too busy loving me. AOTC loves NeoBaggins!

    Come here, AOTC. Yeah, baby. Daddy like, ooh, daddy likeeyy. AOTC, you take yourself in that room and slip into something more comfortable. I got the 54inch for you. The big one- with surround sound. Yeah, you like that dont you. You naughty lil movie you. Now beg me to press play on the remote....
  3. Darth_Mimic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    "We go from Padme shutting down Anakin by saying, "No, I should not have done that" to suddenly, "I've been dying a little bit each day since you left my life."

    There's a huge thread on whether or not the love story was plausible (in the saga forum). Some of us see Padme's struggle between what she wants and who she must be as very believable.
  4. Frank1212 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2001
    star 3
    But there must be a reason why she loves Anakin. Just merely lust and steely gazes is not enough to warrant a good love story.
  5. Jumpman Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    She wants to take care of him. It's not so much love. Remember, Padme has been with Anakin during some of his most important moments in his life.

    Padme's a fixer, a person who thinks about helping others before herself. It's the same with Anakin. She wants to ultimately take care of him. Add to the fact that she was about to die in the execusion arena, she proclaims her love for him, which in part is true but it's mostly to take care of Anakin.

  6. G_Thing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Episode II turned out to be true to Lucas's classic style. It also has its place in Star Wars sage; i.e. the beginning of the Clone Wars. I've yet to be impressed with Hayden Christensen; it would be nice if Anakin could have some convincing personality. I think that alone left some critics shaking their heads. Another reason it didn't catch critics is it was very hard to understand who's on which side here with the droid army against the clones. Sidious and Dooku may be behind the whole thing, but that's sketchy. You really need to be a fan to catch how that works.

    All in all, AOTC lives up to original trilogy, because it has a decent story to tell. I've never felt like it was overly long or dull -- unlike Episode I. I consider it a very good Star Wars movie; just not a great one.
  7. gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 5
    mimic my apologies , I meant to get back to this sooner, but I was busy.

    I've answered this. I was talking about the character over the course of the film, not just the physical rebuilding. His (Threepio) character does change from what we see at the beginning of the film to what we see at the end.

    I don't really see any change.
    But I found it interesting that you think the unseen rebuild was mirroring Anakin, that's really scraping the bottom of the barrel, in fact it isn't even in the barrel!
    As a viewer I'd have to say the most obvious thing that 3po does in aotc is getting dismantled, but that goes against your rebuild idea.

    Since it's part of a multi film movement, it would be strange to say it stands alone from them

    But you did say it stands alone. :confused:

    The major elements are the same. As for maturity, Anakin at nine is easily Luke's equal at the 19

    Huh ? anakin at 9 is Luke's equal at 19 ?
    Well anakin doesn't mature much after 10 years then ! He's more immature at 19 than Luke at 18 .

    And Mos Espa isn't that much different from Mos Eisley

    Eh? Luke didn't grow up in mos-eisley.

    Their lifestyles were remarkeably similar.

    But they didn't develop in exactly the same way, which is what you said.

    I thought I did say it. Your agreement was never something I wanted. Actually, after reading some of your other posts in other threads, I would say that I'd rather have you disagree with me.

    Now, now, no need for that.
    I was genuinely interested in your idea that it was postmodern, I even encouraged you to give your definition of postmodern, but as I debated it with you you kept revising it until you reached the point where your definition included every film ever made.
    Thus making your definition redundant.

    Macbeth justified it to himself by saying it would also benefit others. Like Anakin justifies his desire for power saying he would be able to stop people from dying if he was powerful enough.

    Look , that's an easy game, find 2 or 3 similarities between 2 characters, it could be done with anakin and any number of villains. But you said they develop in exactly the same way, they don't.
    I suggest you stop exagerrating things, just say "they have some similarities" .

    Feeling guilt after making what you perceive is a hard decision is natural; it doesn't mean that you think you aren't right

    Guilt means you feel you've done something wrong, that doesn't fit with your theory that he always feels he's doing the right thing.

    Even when Obi is in trouble he doesn't know what to do, his girlfriend has to tell him.
    Yes, he's often arrogant, but don't say that he always thinks he's right, again, that's exagerration.

    Lucas doesn't need to overtly say he is inspired by Huston or Shakespeare in order for a person to see the intertextual connection

    There's a problem with you using that Eco quote:
    His quote is clearly talking about the author's intent:

    ". I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows he cannot say to her, ?I love you madly? because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, ?As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.?

    But you say the author, Lucas , is irrelevant.

    However - I think it may be relevant in another way - Barbara Cartland was well known for writing one dimensional characters spouting dreadful dialogue - HEY - Anakin and Padme ! Maybe Lucas is saying "as Barbara Cartland would put it."

    It's intertextual. It doesn't mean that Anakin had to speak with a Scots brogue. It means that there are parallels in the story. I've mentioned that already.

    Never said there weren't parallels.

    ANH did all of those things, yes. Every Star Wars film does all of those things. It doesn't take away from the achievements of the other films to recognize
  8. Darth_Mimic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    "Sorry, but I think your idea are poorly thought out .
    You made very grand claims about aotc as "a stand alone .."etc. but ultimately your evidence for this is just pointing out similarities with other stories .
    and to that I have to say - so what ?"

    Well, at this point, I'm more likely to 'agree to disagree' with you. Between your posts in the Basher's Sanctuary (a good idea, that sanctuary) and your posts on the 'bringing Anakin's mother' I think that we just have too divergent opinions. I see AotC as postmodern because of the many reasons I've stated already. But while the film is more 'postmodern' than, say TPM, it requires the existence of the other films (and of Shakespeare) to be postmodern. You, on the other hand, haven't given a coherent definition of what you see postmodernism is, or why AotC doesn't fit your definition. I'll wait for that from you before continuing in this discussion.

    Or maybe I'm just tired, and I'll say more tomorrow.
  9. Lrog192 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Hey where did that DBrenna333 guy go? He was so much fun. I'm new here so I just want to say that I liked AOTC. sure it was cheesy in some parts, kinda lovey-dovey, but people dont have to condemn it!!!
  10. Darth_Mimic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    Ahem... This is going to be a bit long, and probably boring. I'd like to apologize in advance...

    The biggest problem with postmodernism comes with defining it. We'd like to be able to start with 'postmodernism follows after modernism' but unfortunately Shakespeare and Chaucer (and many others) use elements of postmodern writing in their works. And, when you take deconstruction to its extremes, every work appears to have elements of the postmodern.

    So, what do things like Midnight's Children and Ghostbusters have in common? Both are postmodern, but how? I think I have an answer, but I know that smarter people than I have been wrestling with this for decades (since about 1960) and still have no clear answer.

    I believe that postmodernism is a return to the mythic archetype, now conveyed in pop culture medium, where traditional imagery and icons are transformed from the sublime or dramatic to the ridiculous, self absorbed, or flawed.

    How does this apply to AotC? Well, the traditional hero archetype is no longer self assured, altruistic, or particularly moral. Anakin is greedy, selfish, and vengeful, and he operates under his own moral code which he continually redefines under different situations.

    As for AotC being a stand alone as postmodern when compared to the other SW films... Anakin is a traditional hero in TPM. He follows the accepted wisdom of the archetypal teacher figure (Qui Gonn), and embarks on a quest. Luke, in the OT, functions in the same way. His larger quest (shown in all three films) is to become a jedi. But each film also has its own quest embedded in the narrative (destroy Death Star, rescue friends, confront Vader).

    In debating this subject, I realize that I have made a few errors. I tend to see more mirroring in the text of the film than others (they're everywhere). I should never have referred to Shakespeare, as any story told has similarities to Shakespeare somewhere. Most of all, I was trying to prove that the film was postmodern by showing it employed some of the techniques of postmodernity. They are symptoms of the postmodern, but can also be found in other critical areas.

    I hope this clears things up.
  11. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Hey, enough has gone bad in my life that this will go right: This thread WILL get to 500 posts. I expect and demand help from all of you!
  12. CloneCommander07 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2004
    star 4
    The media view the whole PT as the death of the SW trilogy. They say things like, "The PT has a bad storyline and added CGI to make it better."

    The few "corny" lines don't help AOTC's ratings either.
  13. JohnWesleyDowney Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 5

    The media is full of morons.

  14. Ana_Labris Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2000
    star 4
    Aye, JohnWesleyDowney! I say people need some more backbone, loose all the useless need to please, and maybe read this thread and many others around the net to get a different presepective from the one force-fed to them by the media. I know of far too many people who have changed their opinions because someone 'smarter' told them they should, and it's IMHO, sad.
  15. aPPmaSTer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 3

    I didn't read all the posts on this subject cuz there are just too many, but it looks to me like you are a person of intelligence and I think it's time someone spoke with you than against you.
    First of all, this is my FIRST post on TheForce.net, and the main reason I joined was to share my opinion about AOTC.

    Ok, just so that nobody starts a brawl about it, this is MY OPINION on the movie, and it's obvious that not many of the people that replied to DBrennan share this opinion. But nonetheless, everyone has the right to share his/her point of view so here's mine:

    I've been a SW fan all my life, and everybody around me knew me as the "Star Wars freak." But when I saw AOTC all that changed. AOTC made me rethink and reanalyze every little second of the Star Wars saga from how bad it was. Here's why I think it was so bad:

    1) The acting of Anakin and Padme was horrible. This is a love story that had such high potential, it could've been the best space love story of all time. Yet it proved to be an awkward "play hard to get" theme that nobody appreciates.

    2) The dialogue throught the whole movie was extremely awkward and even contradicting at times. The person(s) who wrote the dialogue should be:
    a) fired
    b) crushed
    c) ground into tiny pieces
    d) blasted into oblivion

    3) The CG graphics throughout the movie are rather poor for the actual CREATORS of ILM. The CG Yoda looks really fake, the infamous "Padme biting the pear" scene was awful, the fight with Yoda and Dooku, plus many other scenes are just examples of the poor quality of the graphics of the movie. How come the other movies didn't have this problem? ANH was made almost 30 years ago, and evething you saw on the screen was believable. And how about TPM, it was largely CG, but it still seemed believable. I think Lucas got cocky with the graphics and overdid it a bit.

    4) The story. It wasn't convincing, for example, why would the Jedi commit mass suicide by going to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan and stop the separatists MINUTES before the clones arrive?? For beings of wisdom that didn't seem very wise...plus of course there are at least a dozen more examples of senseless events in the story.

    To sum it up, AOTC was the worst SW film in my opinion. It was the one I watched the least number of times out of all of them because every time I watch it I keep seeing its mistakes and nothing else and it drives me crazy! It does have a lot of positive things to be honest, but the negative ones just make you not see them anymore.

    I love Star Wars, and I love what AOTC could have been, but I hate AOTC, and not one person that I know, besides you people in the forum, thinks that it was a good movie. I'm sorry if any of you were offended, belive me that was not my intent. I just want to see this huge injustice to the Star Wars name avenged. I hope Lucas fixes AOTC (if that's even possible) and takes our words into consideration for ROTS.

    That's all for now, peace out!
  16. BenduHopkins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    AOTC is a popcorn munching hair raising thrill ride, with quirky, corny and profound characters. We have been overfed good special effects by lesser films. Perhaps the world has "grown up" since the original trilogy, and speedy buck rogers scifi cartoony movies are no longer to the taste, with the majority preferring either decidedly kiddie (Harry Potter), or decidedly adult (LOTR) sci-fi/fantasy movies. George is neither child nor man, and his movies benefit from it. In 50 years time, we'll see how the prequels have remained of interest.

    One thing George has sense of is form. Form and connections. And scale. The 6 movies as a whole will certainly be a rich experience for anyone viewing them from beginning to end. In George's style, it takes one movie to tell a pulp serial tale, but it takes 6 to tell a supremely effecting dramatic epic.
  17. Hudnall Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2004
    star 5
    Gomer: I am the public and media, and I love AOTC.

    I am the public and media, and I loathe AOTC.


    As to heroes: There are NO heroes in this movie.

    AOTC isn't even a real movie, just pieced together cutscenes from a video game with a 7-year old's romance novel thrown in, and John William's previous music scores shuffled into the background.
  18. obi1jedinite Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 2
  19. Uric-Qel-Droma Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
  20. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    I work in the media.

    I can garuntee you one thing.... they spend too much time on the web. And they think those of us who here are the true indicators.

    We're not.

    Take a look at BO. ALL of the movies passed $300 mil mark. If a movie makes $150 mil it's a hit.

    You don't make that kind of money by being hated by the people. Sky Captian TRIED to do Lucas...even more than LUCAS tried to do Lucas.

    And I had "Fans" who saw it at the Sandeago Comicon, and claimed it was the next Star Wars.



    Mark my words. Time will work for PT.

  21. Darth_Mimic Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    It surprised me that this thread has come back up. I thought that when it was decided that the film had an overall positive rating on rottentomatoes.com, combined with a box office take of over 300 million, that it was actually loved by the public and media.
  22. DarthPaul77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    It surprised me that this thread has come back up. I thought that when it was decided that the film had an overall positive rating on rottentomatoes.com, combined with a box office take of over 300 million, that it was actually loved by the public and media


    I was JUST going to write that.

    As of today AOTC is FRESH on the tomato-meter with 64%. TPM is still FRESH as well with 62%.

    By todays standards, considering the TON of films that have well below FRESH ratings, these scores are actually pretty good !

    Also consider how many reviews there are for each of these movies on RT. More than most other movies I read about.

    Bring on ROTS !!!!!! I love the PT !!!
  23. Sgt_Cade Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 1
    "You guys are sitting here defending this movie that audiences and critics both rejected."

    Yeah, and we all know critics are ALWAYS right...
  24. WLDB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    "You guys are sitting here defending this movie that audiences and critics both rejected."

    Audiences rejected it? What about the several hundred million dollars it made at the box office? I must have went to see it 5 times or so. As for the critics, I dont pay attention to any of them except Ebert. Even then, he is capable of making mistakes.

    When I first saw AOTC I at the time thought it was the best SW film yet made. Then it quickly took its rank as #2 in my books. (behind ESB)
  25. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Ebert was MORE upset about Lucas making a film in digital than using traditional methods. He lambasted mainly because he feels that Digital medium is NOT the wave of the future.

    When he saw it at a digital Theater, he admitted it looked a lot better.

    Strangely enough, Lucas included the naysayers comlaints on the DVD doccumentrary on digital filming.
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