PT Why was Dooku shocked when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him?

It's been a long standing frustration of mine that Dooku seems so surprised when Palpatine/sidious tells Anakin to finish Dooku off. Dooku knew the duel was set up to see if Anakin was ready to be an apprentice. Surely he had to know that if Anakin bests him, he'd be killed. Isn't that the whole point of the rule of two?

Now here's where it gets muddy. How on earth does Dooku not know the rule of two? Not only has he been a Sith apprentice for over a decade, he was also a Jedi Knight taught by Yoda. As we see from the ending of TPM, even Yoda and Mace know of the rule of two, and they aren't Sith, meaning the rule of two would have to be knowledge readily available to any one who expresses interest.

Or am I wrong on that? Would the Jedi purposely keep knowledge of the Sith away from their Padawan's?

 

This is what Palpatine had told him would happen (in the RoTS novel at least):


"It will be," he said slowly, meditatively, as though he spoke only to himself, "an embarrassment to be captured by him."
The voice that answered him was so familiar that sometimes his very thoughts spoke in it, instead of in his own. "An embarrassment you can survive, Lord Tyranus. After all, he is the greatest Jedi alive, is he not? And have we not ensured that all the galaxy shares this opinion?"
"Quite so, my Master. Quite so." Again, Dooku sighed. Today he felt every hour of his eighty-three years. "It is... fatiguing, to play the villain for so long, Master. I find myself looking forward to an honorable captivity."
A captivity that would allow him to sit out the rest of the war in comfort; a captivity that would allow him to forswear his former allegiances—when he would conveniently appear to finally discover the true extent of the Separatists' crimes against civilization—and bind himself to the new government with his reputation for integrity and idealism fully intact.
The new government...
This had been their star of destiny for lo, these many years.
A government clean, pure, direct: none of the messy scramble for the favor of ignorant rabble and subhuman creatures that made up the Republic he so despised. The government he would serve would be Authority personified.
Human authority.
It was no accident that the primary powers of the Confederacy of Independent Systems were Neimoidian, Skakoan, Quarren and Aqualish, Muun and Gossam, Sy Myrthian and Koorivar and Geonosian. At war's end the aliens would be crushed, stripped of all they possessed, and their systems and their wealth would be given into the hands of the only beings who could be trusted with them.
Human beings.
Dooku would serve an Empire of Man.
And he would serve it as only he could. As he was born to. He would smash the Jedi Order to create it anew: not shackled by the corrupt, narcissistic, shabby little beings who called themselves politicians, but free to bring true authority and true peace to a galaxy that so badly needed both.
An Order that would not negotiate. Would not mediate. An Order that would enforce.
The survivors of the Jedi Order would become the Sith Army.
The Fist of the Empire.
And that Fist would become a power beyond any Jedi's darkest dreams. The Jedi were not the only users of the Force in the galaxy; from Hapes to Haruun Kal, from Kiffu to Dathomir, powerful Force-capable humans and near-humans had long refused to surrender their children to lifelong bound servitude in the Jedi Order. They would not so refuse the Sith Army.
They would not have the choice.


With his heroic capture of Count Dooku, Anakin Skywalker will become the ultimate hero: the greatest hero in the history of the Republic, perhaps of the Jedi Order itself. The loss of his beloved partner will add just exactly the correct spice of tragedy to give melancholy weight to his every word, when he gives his HoloNet interviews denouncing the Senate's corruption as impeding the war effort, when he delicately—oh, so delicately, not to mention reluctantly—insinuates that corruption in the Jedi Order prolonged the war as well.
When he announces the creation of a new order of Force-using warriors.
He will be the perfect commanding general for the Sith Army.
Dooku could only shake his head in awe. And to think that only days earlier, the Jedi had seemed so close to uncovering, even destroying, all he and his Master had worked for. But he should never have feared. His Master never lost. He would never lose. He was the definition of unbeatable.
How can one defeat an enemy one thinks is a friend?
And now, with a single brilliant stroke, his Master would turn the Jedi Order back upon itself like an Ethrani ourobouros devouring its own tail.
This was the day. The hour.
The death of Obi-Wan Kenobi would be the death of the Republic.
Today would see the birth of the Empire.

 

I see, that certainly sheds more light on it. So, essentially, he wasn't planning on remaining an apprentice, but becoming a general of a force using army. He thought he could hang up his mantle, and Sidious would let him walk, as opposed to Anakin being a second apprentice with him. Anakin would take his place and he'd continue elsewhere.

 

I always read it that Dooku retained the heart of a Jedi and he knew trust. Yes, I do think the Jedi in their arrogance would keep knowledge of the Sith from Apprentices. I also have no sense that he was a Sith that long as I don't take what books say regarding my boys at this point.

 

"Lucas's boys" surely?

We know that "Tyranus" contacted Jango, from AoTC - and that this would have been 10 years before AoTC.

 

Yeah. The nature of the Sith is explained as this.


"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the Dark Side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies."

--George Lucas, Bill Moyers Time Magazine Interview; 1999.


The Sith are the natural enemy of the Jedi. As George Lucas describes it, the Sith were once in control of the galaxy 1000 years in the past. Unfortunately, the Sith's hunger for conquest got the better of them-so many Sith lords were vying for ultimate control that it led to infighting among their ranks. Such internecine struggles were exploited by the Jedi Knights of the era, and they were able to turn the tide and defeat the Sith.

As Ki-Adi-Mundi states in Episode I, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium; however, not all were wiped out. A surviving Sith Lord sought to rebuild the order, to retake the galaxy, and to take revenge. This Sith Lord realized the dangers of having too many in the order, so he kept his existence a secret. It would be a long time coming, but he carefully plotted revenge. There would be only two Sith Lords at a time, a master and an apprentice, working in secret, planting the seeds for their eventual rise.

--Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 60

"After Darth Sidious' first apprentice is killed, he has to come up with a new apprentice, and rather than coming up with some baby that he trains from birth, which is what he should have done--well, he shouldn't have gotten himself in a position of getting his apprentice killed anyways--he's decided to make his move, so he needs somebody that was already trained. The point is to set up that he turned this one Jedi, so that he could turn another Jedi. It has to be set up that way."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

 

IL: I meant what I said. I wasn't claiming ownership of characters I was saying I relate to Lee and Cushintg whom play the characters. Lee and Cushing are among 'my boys'.

 

Both should be among one's collective "boys" if they appreciate the art of acting! Fantastic people, and fantastic thespians.

 

One aside: while Dooku may have been surprised that Palpatine would order him killed, I prefer the movie scene, rather than the book, where Dooku (at Christopher Lee's insistence) goes to his doom in dignified silence, rather than what could be considered begging for his life.

 

I think Dooku was surprised because Palpatine by advising Anakin to finish Dooku could blow the Emperor to be's cover. Dooku probably also was privy to another plan that now was being changed, since the Chancellor saw in that moment a chance to help Anakin fall further from the Light.

 

It was always the plan.

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

"Palpatine rather hoped that Anakin was going to leave Obi-Wan during the kidnapping, but Anakin is an honorable man and Obi-Wan is his greatest friend, so Anakin insists that he bring him along."

--Ian McDiarmid, Star Wars Insider #82.

 

Dooku was shocked by Palpatine's betrayal because he had thought himself a true partner to Darth Sidious. However, as useful as Dooku was, Palpatine just viewed him as a pawn, albeit a very useful pawn. As for why Dooku doesn't use his last breath to expose Sidious, the answer is a bit complicated.

First, Dooku is unique amongst the Sith in that he has a sense of honour and fair play(sort of, anyways. He did offer the Jedi a chance to surrender).

In addition, you have to remember that Dooku joined the Sith and started a galactic war because he wanted to see the Jedi destroyed and the Republic remade. He knows that Palpatine is the best chance for this to happen. If he exposes Sidious, he might survive, but their best chance of destroying the Jedi is gone forever.

So, being a man of honour and refusing to beg for his life or sacrifice everything he spent the last ten years trying to bring about, Dooku keeps his mouth shut at the end and goes to his death knowing that Sidious will bring down the Jedi and raise an Empire of Man.

One thing that Season 6 of the Clone Wars has seemingly removed is Dooku's idea of reforming the Jedi Order into an army of Sith. Season 6 makes it clear that Dooku knows about Order 66 and that it will wipe out the Jedi Order. Dooku wants to exterminate the Jedi Order, not reform it.

 

dooku was never completely evil like the emperor. he was more like vader in that he thought he was doing the right thing.

 

u should read the rots novel. it explains a lot.

 

Factoring in the Clone Wars, it's possible that Dooku may have anticipated that Anakin would be used in a fashion similar to Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress. So, his role as the Sith apprentice would remain intact, but they would have another powerful ally on their side. Whatever Dooku knew about Palpatine's plans for Anakin, he was certainly in shock over losing his hands and then, ultimately, his life. I believe the script or somewhere or another originally called for him to protest the situation to Palpatine, asking for amnesty, but this was obviously (and rightfully) cut from the final product.

Dooku was definitely the biggest missed opportunity of the PT, IMO. Had they introduced him on the Council in TPM, perhaps being the only supporter (other than Qui-Gon) in having Anakin trained as a Jedi, only to re-emerge in AOTC as the new Sith apprentice, and ultimately in ROTS with his death, it would have made for a more complete arc for him and make him a more prominent character in the PT.

 

It's certainly there in the novelization:

Dooku, cringing, shrinking with dread, still finds some hope in his heart that he is wrong, that Palpatine has not betrayed him, that this has all been proceeding according to plan—
Until he hears "Good, Anakin! Good! I knew you could do it!" and registers this is Palpatine's voice and feels within the darkest depths of all he is the approach of the words that are to come next.
"Kill him," Palpatine says. "Kill him now."
In Skywalker's eyes he sees only flames.
"Chancellor, please!" he gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for his life, as so many of his victims have.
"Please, you promised me immunity! We had a deal! Help me!"
And his begging gains him a share of mercy equal to that which he has dispensed.
"A deal only if you released me," Palpatine replies, cold as intergalactic space. "Not if you used me as bait to kill my friends."
And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious's plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry.
They were the bait.
"Anakin," Palpatine says quietly. "Finish him."
Years of Jedi training make Anakin hesitate; he looks down upon Dooku and sees not a Lord of the Sith but a beaten, broken, cringing old man.
"I shouldn't—"
But when Palpatine barks, "Do it! Now!" Anakin realizes that this isn't actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing more than what he's been waiting for his whole life.
Permission.
And Dooku—
As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time, Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice. That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has been only a tool.
His whole life—all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he's done, everything he owns, everything he's been, all his dreams and grand vision for the future Empire and the Army of Sith—have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of him, add up only to this.
He has existed only for this.
This.
To be the victim of Anakin Skywalker's first cold-blooded murder.
First but not, he knows, the last.
Then the blades crossed at his throat uncross like scissors.
Snip.
And all of him becomes nothing at all.

 

The movie version went like this.

PALPATINE: "Kill him. Kill him now."

DOOKU: "You promised me immunity!"

PALPATINE: "I lied."

Palpatine thinks the same way. That was Lucas's point in the PT, which is that evil doesn't see itself as evil in the way good does.

 

Dooku never spoke those lines in the film; they were possibly from the shooting script, but ultimately cut from the final film.

 

doesn't matter. in terms of pure viciousness and evil sidious is the worst hands down. vader and dooku have conflict. sidious does not.

 

I meant that was how Lucas wrote it.

 

Darth Sidious: "Kill him. Kill him now!"
Darth Tyranus: "Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!?"

 

Christopher Lee asked Lucas to remove his lines from the scene because he didn't feel it was in-character for Dooku to beg.

 

Christopher Lee is amazing. A real class act.

 

The ROTS novel made Dooku a far more interesting character and outlines the situation perfectly. We never understand Dooku's motives if we only watch the film of Revenge of the Sith.

 

We do it by watching AotC.