Why was Mace Wrong?

Alot of people in 3SA are saying Mace was wrong for attempting to kill Palpatineb and Anakin was truly upholding the Jedi Code. I don't understand how. If he had stood on trial, he most likely would have been found innocent since he had so much power in the senate and courts. Even Yoda and Obi-Wan go on a seek and destroy mission to try and take out the sith. So, why was Mace wrong and Anakin right?

 

Well, I suppose Mace was 'wrong' for allowing his personal feelings get in the way of logic or reason. He was absolutely right about Palpatine not standing a balanced trial, so in one respect he was probably right to 'end it now'. However I think he was more wrong in that he failed to read Anakin's emotions in time. He sensed 'confusion', but didn't extrapolate that to it's conclusion when he was about to execute Palpatine.

As for Anakin's intentions being closer to the Jedi Code, hardly. His reasons for wanting to keep Palpatine alive were entirely personal (if not exactly self-centered). Anakin's sense of reason and proportion had slipped just as much as Mace's.

The only guy in that room with a level head was doing his impersonation of a prune

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I don't think Mace was wrong at all. He's the 2nd highest Jedi master and knows when the Jedi code needs to be stretched. Anakin was less interested in following the code than he was in saving Padme and wasn't so righteous when he killed Dooku.

 

What prison can hold a Sith lord anyway?

 

Mace was wrong because he should grilled Anakin about finding out about Sidious. Surely someone that admits he was Sidious doesnt let someone leave without reason. If he didnt like or need anakin then he would have killed him. By grilling him and helping him he could have adverted Anakins involvement and then go ahead and kill Palpatine.

Of course that wouldnt of made the movie. So its a good failure on our part.

 

Personally I view Mace as being in the right in his attempt to kill the Chancellor after arrest was obviously no longer an option. His corruption had festered too deeply within the Senate and the Courts as made obvious by Nute Gunray's being found innocent inbetween Episodes 1 and 2.

 

Well I imagine that if they took Palpatine into custody the Jedi would have put the galaxy/Senate under some kind of martial law. Mace said as much in the Jedi briefing room. So it would be possible to keep him in custody and bring him to trial.

The hard part is proof. Mace has none. The dead Jedi could be pawned off by Palps as part of the assasination attempt.

On the other hand - what if Mace had killed him? The Jedi have no proof that he was a Sith. No proof that he created and managed the war. No proof of anything illegal at all. I imagine that the public and the Senate would have regarded it as a Jedi coup. So I think Palpatine basically had the Jedi in checkmate. There was no move they could take without destroying the Republic.

 

Alot of people in 3SA are saying Mace was wrong for attempting to kill Palpatineb

Well that is your first mistake, right there, going into the 3sa.


And it was not against the code, as clearly Palps was armed and dangerous. The situation required action. And you want proof, how about 3 Jedi that were sliced by a light saber.

 

Yeah, examination of their wounds would have revealed it was by Lightsaber, something the kind old Chancellor Palpatine pretended to be couldn't have done.

 

But just because he killed them with a saber, doesn't mean he committed a crime. There are 4 dead jedi, and they are in HIS office. That could be blamed on an attempted coup.

The public (and perhaps Senate?) don't know enough about Sabers and Sith to understand. The Jedi would need more proof to convict him.

He could claim that he had trained secretly as a Jedi, and then they tried to overthrow him. Or whatever, some crazy claim to get out of it. They need more proof!

 

I'm sure it's illegal to be a Force user and be an elected Senator or Chancellor...


Evidence? Palpatine's body would have been evidence. The Jedi knew Maul was a Sith after they killed him, and they would probably know the same after checking Palpatine's body


Obi-Wan Kenobi didnt stand trial for killing an innocent civilian

 

I understand why Mace wanted to kill the Emperor, but he went about things the wrong way IMO.

- Never informed Yoda or Obi-wan

- Only brought 3 Jedi with him on the most important mission

- Didn't trust Anakin enough to let him help. I think if Anakin had gone with him Palps wouldn't have been able to play his mind games and the Jedi would have either killed him or taken him into custody. Most likely would have been forced to kill him.

 

Mace was afraid to take Anakin because he sensed Anakin was very confused about Palpatine. Also, there was a scene cut from the film that showed Mace telling Yoda his plan to arrest Palpy.

 

I think Mace was a little freaked out when Anakin revealed Palpatine is Sidious - because he's starting to realize just how powerful he must be, to hide in plain sight.

But he also sensed "a plot to destroy the Jedi" - foresight into his own death, and Order 66?

Mace probably felt he had to move as quickly as possible so they could try to arrest Palpatine before he could escape.

To me, Mace's failure was not in eventually trying to kill Palps, but in hesitating. When he had Palps backing up against the wall, he should have finished him off.

Mace's unwillingness to kill an (apparently) unarmed opponent was his undoing.

 

It seems to me Mace was the most right. In the novelisation, particularly, he appears paranoid to the others around him, but in the end he's dead right (so to speak). He saw the shatterpoints and came to the conclusions everyone else was afraid to. The only part where he was wrong was in failing to recognise Anakin's shatterpoint.

 

I don't think what he did was really wrong- the problem was that Anakin didn't see Sidious killing Jedi or defending himself against Mace. From Anakin's point of view, Mace was about to kill an unarmed, defenceless man.

I think Anakin knew full well that he was wrong to kill Dooku the way he did, but he expected Mace to live up to the Jedi code in a way that he couldn't do himself. He must have thought that Mace, and therefore the Jedi, were utterly corrupt.

 

But Anakin already knew Palpatine was a Sith Master and not an old defenseless man.

 

To me, Mace's failure was not in eventually trying to kill Palps, but in hesitating. When he had Palps backing up against the wall, he should have finished him off.


Exactly. Palpatine never would have stood trial anyhow. He may have lost his lightsaber, but every Jedi knows that simply being without a lightsaber does not make a Sith Lord (or even a Jedi) less dangerous. As long as Palpatine was alive, he was a threat; not just a potential threat either, he was cornered and desperate and would have done anything necessary to survive, even if his plans were exposed. Mace knew what needed to be done, but his hesitation gave Anakin enough time to act. That is his failure.

 

The Jedi should have just bombed the whole Senate, taking out Palps and the whole corrupt system.

 

>>>>But Anakin already knew Palpatine was a Sith Master and not an old defenseless man.

He was both- one doesn't preclude the other. Dooku was an old defenceless man when Anakin killed him, as well as being a Sith lord. And Anakin clearly knew that he shouldn't have killed him.

Palpatine was a Sith master, but he was also an unarmed, defenceless politician about to be killed without trial by a Jedi Master.

 

- Didn't trust Anakin enough to let him help. I think if Anakin had gone with him Palps wouldn't have been able to play his mind games and the Jedi would have either killed him or taken him into custody. Most likely would have been forced to kill him.

I also first thought that Mace's big mistake was to not let Anakin come with them to confront Palpatine. But then when I had thought about it for a while, I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't have made any difference. In the end, Mace would still have wanted to kill Palps and Anakin would have wanted him alive.

If Mace was wrong in something, it was to (try to) kill Palpatine in front of Anakin. Even though Palps revealed himself as a Sith lord, Mace must have, or should have, understood that there still was a connection between Palps and Anakin, and that Anakin wouldn't let Palps be killed just then and there. After all, Palps was a very important person in Anakin's life.

 

I see your POV Lexi, but I still wonder if it was a mistake not to take Anakin.

From what we know of the prophecy, Anakin is the Chosen One who will destroy the Sith. Makes me wonder if the conversation with Yoda & Obi-Wan aboard the transport had planted a doubt in his mind. If he had faith in the prophecy, he surely would have taken Anakin, come what may.

Mace had expressed doubt about Anakin being the Chosen One from day one, but in the 10+ years that followed, should have studied the prophecy and Anakin's role more in-depth.

As arrogant & confused as Anakin was, he should have been along.

 

Both Anakin and Mace are right, that's one reason that entire scene rules!

"Take me with you, you'll need my help to arrest the Chancellor". Probably true, Anakin.

"I sense much conflict in you, young Skywalker. Stay in the Council chambers." Also true.

So since he didn't take Anakin, Mace should have killed Palps before Anakin arrived.

If he took Anakin, would the Chancellor have let himself be arrested? The Senate would have cleared him immediately.

 

If he took Anakin, would the Chancellor have let himself be arrested? The Senate would have cleared him immediately.

This is actually a very important point--Anakin's presence notwithstanding, why didn't Palps just surrender to the Jedi? He would've been cleared, as Mace said (and you point out, Garth), the Jedi would've been discredited, and he would still have been able to take control.

Unless, of course, the "assassination attempt" was part of his plan all along. Which makes him seem all the more brilliant in retrospect, because he may well have allowed the Jedi to discover his true identity when they did, knowing it was too late for them to do anything about it. IOW, maybe he revealed himself to Anakin purposely, knowing that Ani would report to the council, who would then try to arrest Palps. That gave him the excuse to kill some Jedi AND manufacture the idea that there was a Jedi plot to take over the Republic. And, as has been mentioned, he may have known Ani would show up eventually, so he made it look as though Mace had attacked him and was threatening to kill a "defenseless" old man.

At first glance, that whole plotline might look like Palps is a great opportunist who made the most out what happened; to think that he might have had that many details planned out is dizzying.

[Guinness commercial] Brilliant! [/Guinness commercial]

WJE

 

I think he had it planned. I also think that he had a desire for a more personal taste of the end of the Jedi. Up until that time he had been the manipulator and organizer of everything, and I think he wanted to taste some blood himself.