CT Why was Vader after the Falcon in ESB?

This is a reboot of a discussion that just came up in another OT thread but curiously one where I think it is fair to say that there can't be a definitive answer, unless George Lucas could be motivated to tell us what it is he really wanted to convey.

The ESB prologue clearly states that Vader is obsessed with finding Luke Skywalker and the moment he realizes through the Force that Luke is on Hoth he essentially "found" him.

BUT once there Vader's attention shifts exclusively to the Millennium Falcon. It becomes very clear during the course of the film that he wants to have its crew apprehended at almost all costs - and this is the moment we can all ask ourselves and debate regarding the "why".

Put simply:

• Does Vader mistake Leia's presence / Force "vibrations" as Luke's or
• Does Vader just require Han, Leia and Chewie to set up a trap that will bring Luke Skywalker to him?

The film itself provides no definite answers and the secondary George Lucas canon sources contradict each other regarding the issue:

The screenplay draft from October 1978 (which also made it into the popular ESB novelization) suggests that Vader thinks Luke is aboard the Falcon, too:

VADER

Asteroids don't concern me, Admiral. I want that ship, not
excuses. How long until you can have Skywalker and the others in
the Millennium Falcon before me?

In contrast Brian Daley's ESB radio drama clearly suggests that Vader knows that Luke is not aboard but wants to apprehend its crew to set up a trap for Luke:

VADER

I shall tempt [Luke Skywalker] with bait he cannot resist. Once I have the Millennium Falcon in hand, Luke Skywalker is as good as ours.

The way I see it, both interpretations can be argued for, but I find myself between a rock and a hard place, as I'm not sure which one to believe.

And it's noteworthy, IMHO, that although Vader's "quest" for the Falcon is one of the elements that drives the story, yet we can't really be certain "why" he is actually chasing it.

So please let me/us know what you thought Vader's motivation had been (and feel free to share your reasons).

 

I think he's just chasing the Falcon, because he knows that Luke's friends are in it.

He knows Luke isn't there, as he can clearly sense Luke on Hoth and Cloud City. He knows he can torture them to create visions for Luke, like the Tuskens did indirectly with Shmi.

I doubt he's sensing Leia, as he never showed any indication of sensing her in ANH, and only learns of his daughter in ROTJ via Luke's thoughts, not any actual interaction with Leia.

Note also how he only begins to suspect Luke when he starts to actively use the Force in ANH before his final torpedo run. Leia never uses the Force herself, she just picks up on Luke's call.

 

Vader is on record telling Imperial officers that control a weapon that can destroy a planet that their technological terror is insignificant next to the power of the Force. After confronting Luke he tells Luke he doesn't know the power of the dark side. Retrospectively, Anakin fell to the dark side through attachment. In the vein that Imperial plans are feints within feints, and as the Emperor sets an expensive trap in ROTJ too tempting to resist, Vader also has a mind for lures and traps with irresistable bait. The lever with most leverage for winning Luke's turn to the dark side is for Luke to overvalue friends by undervaluing martial and mental readiness, and therefore suffer some broader consequence for misplaced attachment. Vader can physically capture Luke on Dagobah but that does not necessarily push an internal lever. We know Leia resisted the mind probe and other threatening persuasions. External levers did not work, nor did she give up Yavin to save her family on Alderaan. So, maybe it isn't very Sun Tzu of Vader to strike where Luke might be stronger. It seems to be a calculated, discovered attack, and gives Luke a Hobson's choice the conventional viewer must inevitably agree with. 'Bear your feelings deep down. They do you credit but they could be used to serve the Emperor.'

 

I had always assumed it was option two, but now I'm having to rethink things. Even on Hoth, it's the falcon that it turns out he was moving towards, even when Luke was nearby (we know Luke's position relative to Vader when the falcon takes off as they both see it from different angles, and they can't be more than a couple miles away at most). Was he unable to search out Luke's precise location using the force?

 

C. Both.

Vader wanted Luke, and assumed he was on the Falcon, as he had been using the ship regularly in the past. When Vader discovered that he was indeed not on the ship, he changed his plan and instead would use Han, Chewie, and Leia to lure Luke into Vader's graps.

 

The premise of the flm (judging by the prologue) is that Vader wants to find and - naturally - capture Luke. It would be a bit odd that once Vader actually arrived on Hoth he drastically altered his plan, i.e. to apprehend instead Luke's friends - while Luke was departing unmolested by any Imperial pursuers.

Then he should have stayed in touch with Boba Fett from the very beginning (which he did acording to the Holiday Special), just double the bounty for Han Solo and have Fett deliver Han, Chewie etc. to Vader to make Luke come to him.
No need for thousands of probe droids...

Vader had "connected" to Luke during the Battle of Yavin and had consciously become aware of Luke's (for a lack of better word) "Force frequency". As twins, shouldn't Leia be on the the same or similar frequency?
I wouldn't exclude the possibility that after Yavin Vader knew how to tune into that frequency (which eluded him previously with Leia) but mistook Leia for Luke in ESB, because she was closer to Vader (aboard the Falcon) than Luke.

Dinos4Ever

That's still A and Vader merely changed his plan once he realized his error. B means that Vader wanted to set up this trap for Luke from the very beginning (i.e. Hoth).

 

That's an amusing idea regarding the twins sharing the same force frequency/signature. If Vader is inadvertently sensing Leia on Hoth, however, I feel like he should realize his mistake when he finally meets her face to face on Bespin. Maybe he does, but there's no indication in the movie that he finds her particularly important or interesting - he never even directly interacts with her that we see.

 

Vader wanted the falcon because he thought it was a fine ship and wanted to do the Kessel Run in less than 12 par secs!

Vader: now this is podracing!

 

Unpaid parking tickets.

 

It's clear from the film that he wanted the Falcon and its occupants as bait to draw Luke to him.

 

In the film it was for bait. Vader was hunting for Luke and the best chance he had was chased down the Falcon and get the information. GL never stated what the real purpose but has hinted many times that Vader was seeking Luke, so it is reasonable that Vader was following the best lead he had, and that was capturing the Falcon.

 

This.

 

Torib wrote

If Vader is inadvertently sensing Leia on Hoth, however, I feel like he should realize his mistake when he finally meets her face to face on Bespin.

Then he certainly realized his mistake but there was no good reason to admit to it.

Maybe he does, but there's no indication in the movie that he finds her particularly important or interesting - he never even directly interacts with her that we see.

Maybe he does find her particularly important or interesting, but it wouldn't help his plans to reveal that. Everybody knows he's after Skywalker and just sacrificing Han but allow Leia and Chewie safe passage helps to calm everybody down.

IMPERIAL OFFICER Skywalker has just landed, my
lord.

VADER Good. See to it that he finds
his way here. Calrissian, take
the princess and the Wookiee to
my ship.

Since Luke has just walked into the trap, he doesn't need Leia and Chewie anymore as bait, I think that much is crystal clear.

But there are several good reasons - from Vader's point of view - to alter the deal with Lando

• He can still use Leia and Chewie as hostages to make Luke do what we wants him to do (yet never plays this card following the duel with Luke...!)
• Leia has vital information on the Alliance the Empire could find useful

This doesn't exclude a third good reason, i.e. the Force is with Leia, but we don't know for certain, as he already has two other reasons why to keep her prisoner.

General reminder:

While it's obvious that Vader uses Han, Leia and Chewie as bait after they arrived in Cloud City, the actual poll question # 2 is

Did Vader intend to use the Falcon and its crew as bait after he had arrived on Hoth?

First it's all about Luke Skywalker

VADER That is the system. And I'm sure
Skywalker is with them.

but soon thereafter it's all about the Millennium Falcon (deleted scene, image on top):

SNOWTROOPER
Seventeen ships destroyed, we don't know how many got away.

VADER
Anything on the Millennium Falcon?

SNOWTROOPER
It won't get through the blockade.

VADER
I want that ship.

 

I will attempt to go by sequence of event from the script:

VADER (studying the image on the console screen) That's it. The Rebels are there. OZZEL My lord, there are so many uncharted settlements. It could be smugglers, it could be... VADER That is the system. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers, prepare you men.​

Vader is not talking in monologue. If he harbors contemplations about that Rebel pilot that was strong in the Force, and what it may or not trigger of memories of his own past, he is still talking to two Imperial officers. These Imperial officers would be as invested as he is in finding that particular Rebel pilot who, whether or not any other Imperial officer believes in the Force, or ancient religions, performed a military feat, and spoke their language, and merits singling out for a military response, aside from but involved with, his association with the more generalized Rebellion. Piett knows who Luke Skywalker is. Ozzel knows who Luke Skywalker is. He is Imperial public enemy #1. If Vader's motivations can be decomposed into those of an officer, those of a former Jedi, and those of a 'former', 'possible' father, he has no reason to publicize the last two. He pleads the fifth when in his role as an Imperial 'officer' (or Sith officer) or figurehead.

VADER (angrily) The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel came out of light-speed too close to the system.​

If Vader was keeping the second and third motivation subordinate to the primary, to catch the Rebels, this snafu here upsets any carefully laid plans he had about Luke himself. He could have but does not say, 'Luke Skywalker has been alerted to our presence'.

INT. REBEL BASE - MAIN HANGAR More stormtroopers run into the hangar, closely followed by Vader. Hearing the loud roar of the Millennium Falcon's engines, Vader looks toward the main hangar doors just in time to see the Falcon lift up and disappear outside the cave.​

'Just in time' rhymes with 'alerted' and 'too close'. So far it is Ozzell who has thwarted any particular actions Vader might have been taking, in his Imperial role, to capture the military combatant who destroyed DS1 who is named Luke Skywalker at unawares.

VADER (interrupting) Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want that ship and not excuses.​

So here Vader gives 'that ship' a parity with his prior mention to Piett and Ozzell of 'Luke Skywalker is with them'. Piett does not need to wonder too much at the value Vader places on 'that ship', and whether it has the highest Rebel brass and experience. For what he has been given on screen,
'that ship' is tantamount to securing that military combatant, Luke Skywalker.

VADER No, Captain, they're alive. I want every ship available to sweep the asteroid field until they are found.​

Huh. What do we think we know about what Vader knows about who, exactly, is on 'that ship'? The tectonic movement now occurs that pushes Vader's Jedi heritage and father-potential components of motivation up over those of being in Imperial service:

VADER What is thy bidding, my master?​

EMPEROR There is a great disturbance in​

the Force.​

VADER I have felt it.​

EMPEROR We have a new enemy - Luke​

Skywalker.​

VADER Yes, my master.​

EMPEROR He could destroy us.​

VADER He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no​

longer help him.​

EMPEROR The Force is strong with him. The​

son of Skywalker must not become a​

Jedi.​

VADER If he could be turned, he would​

become a powerful ally.​

EMPEROR Yes. Yes. He would be a great​

asset. Can it be done?​

VADER He will join us or die, my​

master.​

The clockwork gears here are I would guess pretty straightforward, and Vader's subterranean motivations have been called out on the rug by his far more clairvoyant master. He can still act on his previously subterranean motivations. In so doing he is knowingly playing a table poker game on the much larger life sized chess board of the Emperor. Whether or not he ever revealed motivations to Imperial officers about Luke Skywalker aside from his being a person of interest, public enemy #1, a dangerous military combatant, a hero and source of morale to the Rebellion, Vader is now given carte blanche to "turn" a potential Jedi. This is a different operation than the capture of a military combatant. This operation requires different hardware, different software, different levers. And now, reconnect to the easily perceived strategy he takes at Bespin. The setting, the stakes at Bespin are different from when we first heard Vader utter "Skywalker".

Edit add: the distinction between team Imperial and team Sith is placed in sharp focus in the deleted scene where the Emperor commands Jerjerrod to destroy the Endor moon. Now who is worse, Skywalker who killed many Imperial troops, or the Emperor. Whose side is the Emperor on, anyway?

 

Good observation. It could explain why Lucas / Kasdan felt the original extra lines of this scene to be somewhat redundant:

Asteroids don't concern me, Admiral. I want that ship, not
excuses. How long until you can have Skywalker and the others in
the Millennium Falcon before me?

Certainly Vader must have been aware that his officers wouldn't have pushed their own limits, had he permanently exposed mood swings ("First, it's all about that Skywalker guy, now it's all about that Falcon ship - what's next?").

 

Except Luke's also been using his X-Wing. So Vader is aware that is Luke's other means of transportation. We know that Luke is outside the hangar, so he cannot sense him that well. But he knows that the Falcon's occupants are important in getting him to come to him.

 

Exactly...why didn't Vader go straight for the remaining X-Wings? Probability was high that Commander Skywalker (did Vader knew?) would be among the last to leave the planet. Yet three (!) out of the five Star Destroyers (or four, assuming the ""Tyrant"" was still incapaitated) were joining in the pursuit of the Falcon.

So instead of going straight for Luke Skywalker, Vader decided to take a detour by trying to capture his friends, first, and then hope he could use them as bait later on to make Luke attempt their rescue. It does sound like a convoluted and unnecessarily complicated strategy.

On the other hand, erroneously assuming that Luke was in the Falcon, would explain why Vader diverted most of his resources to the capture of the Falcon and practically ended the blockade, so that Luke, Wedge (not sure it really is Wedge in the film, the helmet doesn't match) and several other X-Wings could escort the last transport ship (and incapacitate the Star Destroyer anticipating them, according to Daley's radio drama) to safety.

 

Because....

 

I wager Vader didn't know there were any ships outside still.

Except there's nothing that supports that in the final film. Taking that line out leaves the impression that Vader is clueless as to where Luke is. Note that he doesn't even comment on Luke not being present on Cloud City.

 

Dinos4Ever

Your post is a bit cryptic. You prefer the original screenplay/novelization suggestion?

When I saw the film in 1980 my instant and unreflected first impression (unchanged by multiple viewings) had been that Vader mistook Leia's Force "aura" for Luke's, that notion was emphasized when Luke was telepathically able to communicate with her later in the film (which I merely interpreted as a yet unrevealed capability of her).

So despite our mental gymnastics trying to rationalize Vader's behavior, I'd like to learn if I was the only one who had this (first) impression.

darth-sinister wrote

I wager Vader didn't know there were any ships outside still.

Fair enough. The X-Wings might have just been rolled out prior to take-off.

Except there's nothing that supports that in the final film. Taking that line out leaves the impression that Vader is clueless as to where Luke is. Note that he doesn't even comment on Luke not being present on Cloud City.

I could imagine he was quite surprised to find out that Luke Skywalker was not aboard the Falcon. But he had several hours to recover from the shock before dinner and to come up with Plan B. And I'm certain that the first thing he asked were the whereabouts of Luke Skywalker (which, of course, didn't happen in the ESB radio drama because Daley propagated the other theory).

P.S. Just re-checked the first ESB draft by Leigh Brackett. Luke evades Vader on Hoth who acknowledges this with a good-bye and returns to his castle. The Falcon is merely pursued just as any other Rebel ship. Lando tips off Vader who arrives in Cloud City and then announces his plan to use Leia as the bait to attract Luke.

 

I was using your post to point out that it was the intention of the director that Vader was to assume Luke was on board the Millennium Falcon.

 

The following would suggest that Vader did *not bring up the topic of Luke's whereabouts. And Leia did not (yet?) have all the tools to understand how Vader's sinister, sadistic actions had a genuinely practical effect in the domain of The Force.

LEIA ​

Why are they doing this?​

HAN ​

They never even asked me any questions.​

 

I agree with this.

 

His inner Anakin "The greatest Pilot in the Galaxy" spoke and said "WHOA you need that ship. It's really fast"