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Why were all Mandalorians Human?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by episodenone, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jun 13, 2001
    Was this mentioned anywhere?

    While I know so much about the Mandalorians has been changed -- I didn't realize that they abandoned the Mandalorian way of absorbing whomever, whenever from ALL the other lit.

    Let's not spout our frustration about this -- that's a moot point -- I am just wondering if that part of Mandalore still exists - maybe on concord Dawn or something?

    I almost got a "racist" feeling from Bo Katan -- totally against what I though she would do if she was a True Mandalorian which would be accept Maul based on his abilities. Instead she was way over-Xenophobic if you ask me.

    Maul had every right to be the new leader in Mandalorian tradition -- except that Bo seemed to be disgusted by him either as a Sith [possibly] or an Outsider [likely] but had he been Human - I think she sticks with him.

    So... does that old society of anyone can be a Mandalorian still hold any water?
  2. Mars457

    Mars457 Jedi Knight star 2

    Feb 3, 2013
    Bo rebelled because she knew Maul didn't and wouldn't have Mandalore's best interests in his mind. Which is true, because Maul was just going to use it to wage proxy warfare on everyone else.through "crime families".
  3. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Aug 31, 2000
    They aren't but showing only human(white humans) Mandlalorians doesn't help to prove that point.
  4. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    As canon currently stand:
    The New Mandalorians live isolated from the traditional warrior clans, in an insular society they constructed for themselves in the desert wastes of Mandalore left behind by the Mandalorian Excision. The clans still live in the unspoiled regions of Mandalore, in and around the traditional capital of Keldabe, and places like Bralsin and Enceri. As ever, the clans have no problem with accepting members of any species, race, or gender. Have a look at some of those links if you're interested in further information.

    The New Mandalorians, however, are very human-centric, and were intentionally designed by the Clone Wars team to be the very "Nordic" blonde-haired, mostly blue-eyed, fair-skinned group of people the show portrays. No in-universe reason for this has been given, leaving several unfortunate implications when it comes to the New Mandalorians and their quite blatant lack of diversity.

    Bo-Katan refused Maul's rule not out of any sense of racism, but because he was a Sith. It wasn't because he was a Zabrak that he was an outsider, it was because he was a Sith Lord. It's only the ancient Mandalorians, the Mandalorian Crusaders, that believed in a code that dictated following the strongest regardless of anything else, and it's only the Death Watch that continues to try and live by that in the modern age. The True Mandalorians didn't follow the Crusader ways, nor do the unaffiliated members of the modern-day warrior clans.
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  5. Narutakikun

    Narutakikun Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 8, 2012
    Better question: Why do TCW's Mandalorians mostly look like a bunch of Swedes - fair skin, light eyes, lots of blondes and redheads - while the Fetts look like Maoris*?

    (*I'm not asking why Tem Morrison and Daniel Logan look like Maoris, BTW. I know the answer to that one).
  6. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Oct 3, 2003
    Jango was born on Concord Dawn, not Mandalore.

    Many wear the armour, but few are truely of Mandalore itself.
  7. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 15, 2011
    Oh look, its this topic again.
    rumblewagon and CT-867-5309 like this.
  8. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 11, 2011

    "It's cos I'm Zabrak, innit?"

    The Mandalorians in the show do appear to be a bit racist. The Death Watch are all tall, blue-eyed and blond. Almec is persecuted for his purple eyes. :p


    This school superintendant is obviously bent. His brown hair made him do it.


    This dude is a bit shifty. It's in the brown hair, you know?


    Even cadet Soniee gets no respect for having the capability to fracking enhance holograms. Why? Because she's the only green-eyed brunette on a planet of blue-eyed blondes. That dampens your prospects in the Mandalorian tech industry.

    Although to be fair to TCW's portrayal, the bulk of Mandalorians introduced in earlier media were humans who were predominantly more European than Asian/Polynesian in appearance. Open Seasons consciously made Tor Vizsla, Silas and Jaster Mereel resemble Temuera Morrison to some extent, but Montross and even Jango Fett's sister Arla were drawn as blond-haired.

    That always struck me as a fairly inelegant solution. Where, in that case, have these clans been while the New Mandalorians, the Death Watch, the Mauldalorians and the Bo-Katandalorians have been killing each other? How does this square with the line in TCW-S2 that all the warriors have been exiled to Concordia? If the Mandalorian state based in Sundari is an interplanetary entity - straddling Mandalore, Concordia and Kalevala at least - and the one Mandalorian cultural entity recognised by the Republic, CIS and the neutral systems which it is at the head of, where do the clans factor in, especially if they're based on the same planet as this state?

    My personal preference would be a complete separation of the Mandalorian clans from the Mandalorian state. Perhaps the Mandalorian state is descended from an ancient Mandalorian empire, based out of a new city built on a new planet by genocidal crusading conquerors. These conquerors originally hailed from the "Old" Mandalore of the clans but built a new society on "New" Mandalore that resembled their anthrosupremacist ideals.

    Ah, well. Compromises aren't supposed to make everyone happy. Full respect to Jason Fry. I liked the explanation about the differences between the disciplined militaristic crusader culture of the Death Watch/New Mandalorians and the more relaxed tribal culture of the clans.

    From what I understand, the Mandalorians would be in a situation that resembles the different self-identified "Arab" groups that exist IRL. The original Arab homeland was in the Hejaz and Nejd regions of Saudi Arabia. Particularly after the Bani Hilal migrations of bedouin tribes into urbanised, more advanced regions like Iraq, people elsewhere in West Asia now identify as Arabs and many of them have ancestral origins in the deserts to the south. However, they're a totally different culture compared to their bedouin forebears. In this analogy, Clan Skirata are like a clan of Nejdi bedouin (semi-nomadic, traditional), Satine is like the Hashemite monarchs who used to rule Iraq and still rule Jordan (xenophilic, establishment power, etc.) and the Death Watch are more like the Baa'thists (revolutionary, nationalist, militant).
    Paparazzo likes this.
  9. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    The pacifist New Mandalorians have only been stated and shown to have holdings on Mandalore in the desert, the blasted, ruined, barren wasteland left behind by the Mandalorian Excision more then 700 years prior to the Clone Wars. If you're living in the beautiful tropics, or sprawling forests, or on fertile you really care about a hunk of white sand on the other side of the planet? The New Mandalorians have a single prominent city on Mandalore, their capital Sundari, and something like a dozen of the smaller cube cities. Does the world stop when fighting breaks out in a single city? Or even a single country, if we want to relate the New Mandalorians' desert territory to such? As we can see with the fighting in Damascus and Aleppo, all across Syria...most of the world just doesn't care, and keeps on going as it always has.

    All of the trouble in the show is centered on Sundari. Every time anybody "goes to Mandalore", they're going to Sundari. When "Mandalore falls", it's Sundari having a really bad day. The Shadow Collective attacks Sundari; Death Watch defends Sundari; Pre Vizsla conquers Sundari; the two Death Watch factions battle over Sundari. There's one or two shots showing some smoke from one of the cube city suburbs, but it's really just Sundari. So often Star Wars has a problem relating worlds to single cities or locations, Mandalore is a world explicitly with multiple terrains and numerous visited cities in canon. And to continue the metaphor from earlier, imagine the city that's tearing itself apart is filled with people who hate you: you're too barbaric, you're too low-tech, you're too beneath them in every way. They would rather starve then ask you for help. How much would you really care if the place was suddenly going to hell? About as much as the warrior clans, I'd guess.

    The clans are living as they always have. There's no food shortages in the farmland. Death Watch is too busy bullying the Mandos who can't/won't fight back to bother them right now. And the Shadow Collective's gangsters would be crazy to try that "walk in and take over" stunt on their capital. Literally no part of the TV show's events have any reason to bother them, aside from possible cross-faction clan ties.

    According to the Shadow Conspiracy novel, the warriors that were exiled to Concordia are those―primarily Death Watch-affiliated―Mandalorians who struck at the New Mandalorian regime during the Great Clan Wars.

    The level of New Mandalorian involvement on Concordia is somewhat unclear. Satine made a point of mentioning that it was an independent province with it's own governor back in The Mandalore Plot, suggesting that while it may be an ally to the New Mandalorian government in Sundari, Concordia's not just a subservient colony.

    As for the clans, while Kalevala may lean toward New Mandalorian interests, there are numerous other worlds throughout the Mandalore sector and beyond that have either been specifically identified with clan presence or have an ambiguous population.

    Some part of me would've liked the "Different Factions on Different Worlds" retcon too, but I'm mostly content with the way things have turned out so far.

    Very interesting analysis and not a bad comparison.
  10. SithLord_1270

    SithLord_1270 Jedi Knight star 3

    Nov 5, 2008
    I thought Mandalorians came from multiple races. I recall a Barabel Mando.
  11. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 11, 2012
    I think we're talking about the New Mandalorians.
  12. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 2, 2009
    Maul had no right to be the ruler of Mandalore. You need to be a Mandalorian before you can challenge for the right. Revan didn't automatically become the Mandalore after he killed the Ultimate at Malachor V.
    He was never a Mandalorian to begin with, he was an outsider trying to impose rule on a foreign culture.
  13. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 14, 2010
    There' an implied reason in the novel Shadow Games by Michael Reeves: the main love interest mentions performing a show on the "human immigrants to Mandalore," so it seems likely that the "modern" Mandalore has a huge and relatively fresh human population. Combine that with the Mando'a's penchant for a nomadic lifestyle and the cultural differences between the novels and the show, and I figure there are two different groups that wear the armor and share the heritage but consider each other to not count as real Mandalorians.

    One side is the Mando'a's Clans, decentralized and sharing most of the cultural aspects created by Traviss with very diversified armor designs and more practical fighting skills, and the other are the "native" Mandalorians with strong ties to the system itself and a more formalized hierarchy with a preference for Supercommando troops. And of course you'd have guys stuck in the middle or even on the outside of these groups, like the Fetts, and twenty bucks says Shysa probably ties the two groups together before Boba takes over.
  14. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    I wish the novel would've just gone head-on with the issue rather than just a vague implication. There've pretty much always been human immigrants on Mandalore, whether converts or Mandalorians from around the galaxy relocating to the planet. At least that way we would have something more definitive for why there are all these white, blonde humans.

    I didn't know a language could have a penchant for a nomadic lifestyle. The Mando'ade, though... :p

    That's already how the situation has been canonically resolved through Jason Fry's collective work across the Essential Atlas, Essential Guide to Warfare, Shadow Conspiracy, and the New Battlefronts Visual Guide.
  15. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    I don't get the impression that there is a distinction between New Mandalorians and an older clan culture in the eyes of Lucas or Filoni, yet unless they explicitly show that the ENTIRE planet is a desolate wasteland, then novels and comics will put the old Mandalorians somewhere, and when the C-continuity insists on making the old continuity fit in the face of a retcon, it can have messy implications.

    For instance, I highly doubt that Satine or her government is intended to be racist/"speciesist." But they sure do look like it when you establish that there are other clans on the very same planet that embrace diversity. All of the Mandalorians are depicted as resembling the peoples of Northern Europe, which is conspicuous when the only representative of the culture in the films is Maori.

    In TCW however, Obi-Wan asks Almec about Jango and Almec insists that he is not a Mandalorian and we never heard anything on the matter since (in TCW), while I think C-continuity maintains that he is Mandalorian (I admittedly don't know and I welcome correction if I'm wrong, I just know bits and pieces of the C-continuity). I am not aware of Filoni addressing Jango any further in interviews or Q&A sessions. In his and Lucas' mind, maybe he isn't Mandalorian. Maybe he's just some guy that loves the armor in the same way that westerners can admire the Japanese katana as being among some of the finest, if not the finest, swords in the world.

    There needs to be better communication between Filoni and Leland. I know Lucas get to come in and trump any established continuity on a whim, but if that's the case and Lucas firmly says that the planet is a wasteland and that Jango is not a Mandalorian, then let Leland or whomever know and ensure communication so that the new continuity can reflect that. Instead c-continuity could come up with an excuse that Almec was disavowing Jango for political reasons, but that Jango is a Mandalorian. In which point it'll just look stupid if it gets firmly established on screen in a future Boba Fett episode that Jango was not a Mandalorian.

    **I don't know whether Jango currently is or is not regarded as a Mandalorian in the eyes of Lucas or Filoni, I'm just using that as a hypothetical example**
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  16. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    It's not a lack on communication, it's a lack of condoning. Everyone is perfectly aware of how Lucas feels in regards to Jango being Mandalorian and Mandalore being a desert. Jango isn't one, Mandalore is one. According to Filoni's interviews and personal statements, Lucas has made all of this abundantly clear. The issue lies in that people like Leeland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo realize that this entire "Screw Everything Else" mentality is basically giving dedicated fans an enormous finger. It ruins, literally ruins all concept of continuity if this view is taken as the be all, end all statement of how things must be. They're not willing to alienate long-time fans (and cut themselves off from potential revenue) over something that can be fixed with approximately a single page's worth of retcons.

    So Jango is still a Mandalorian, Almec is proudly New Mandalorian nationalist, Mandalore has expansive desert regions in addition to it's wide forests, grassland, and oceans, the New Mandalorians and the traditional clans share the same planet and give each other their space, and everything is maintained. You're right, of course, that the future can present a new challenge at any moment, but that's no reason to give up at the first sign of trouble when issues can be fixed with a new guide or article and a little clever thought.
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  17. Kualan

    Kualan Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 4, 2008
    I admit, at no point did I take Almec's statement at face value, and I'm really surprised that this has become an issue with some folks. It was insanely obvious that Almec saying "Jango Fett was no Mandalorian!" is a case of the New Mandalorians "disinheriting" him, not Lucas/Filoni telling us that he isn't an actual Mandalorian. It would be the exact same as Satine saying, "The Death Watch are no Mandalorians!". It doesn't mean literally. It means she is disavowing them.

    EDIT: Unless there has been an interview in which it is explicitly stated that Lucas intends Jango not to be a Mandalorian? In which But I've not seen any such source to indicate that.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  18. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 11, 2011
    To be honest, I'm not sold on this idea that clans living elsewhere on Mandalore don't care about and have no stake in the fate of the (New) Mandalorian state. I also take issue with the idea that these clans somehow escape predation from external powers because they're too strong to touch. Everything in TCW suggests that the Mandalorian state is the recognised cultural entity of the Mandalorians. If it's comparable to a single country on a planet, then that country is equivalent to a conglomeration of the United States, ASEAN, UNASUR, the African Union, the European Union, India, China and Russia at the very least, judging by how the Republic, CIS, neutral systems and Darth Maul regard it. Certainly not Syria. Aliens dealing with Earth probably wouldn't go through them.

    Pre Vizsla wants to "reclaim Mandalore". After he brings Sundari and the Mandalorian state under his control, he sits satisfied. Even if Satine's government came to an live-and-let-live arrangement with them, why would the militarist Vizsla not bother using his new power base to bring the clans on Mandalore under his control? Why would puppet ruler Maul risk these strong clans undermining his plans from within? They simply don't care about them, and probably not because they're too strong.

    If the residents of Sundari and the other cube cities are starving while the clans are producing food, why don't they just negotiate with the clans elsewhere rather than import toxic consumables through dodgy smugglers? Pride? Elitism? Perhaps, but if there's such a deep gulf between the societies that they wouldn't even trade for food, then this is a difference which an external power - such as the Republic or CIS - could exploit in order to bring Mandalore into its fold. However, they only ever exploit the rift between the pacifist and militarist political factions.

    All indications are that the aforementioned clans are truly insignificant compared to the Mandalorian state. It evidently has effective control over the entire planet and is recognised by the wider galaxy as such. If these clans had anywhere near the prominence of the (New) Mandalorian state, they'd be recognised as legitimate by everyone from Dooku to Maul. If the Republic and CIS are so keen to claim Mandalore in S2, with the latter willing to back Death Watch in order to do this, they'd back any clan culture that somehow matched or overshadowed the recognised Mandalorian state. The CIS abandons plans to bring Mandalore into its fold through such manipulation because it lacks plausible means to do this. Clans that thrive while the New Mandalorians stagnate and are somehow too strong for DW and Maul to topple are indeed plausible means to do this through, which means they simply don't exist.

    Any old-school clan members that still exist beyond Mandalore's cities are almost certainly citizens of the Mandalorian state or under at least the suzerainty of the government in Sundari. No other option makes much sense.

    If there are other clans on the planet, they don't have to be exactly as described in pre-TCW books and comics if it conflicts with TCW. Of course, if there's a commitment from Lucasfilm's SW continuity staff to ensure that the Mandalore described in those earlier sources is the same planet as the Mandalore in TCW, then that's inevitably going to result in a load of such problems. Satine, Almec, Bo-Katan, Pre Vizsla, the New Mandalorians and Death Watch all become racist, elitist idiots who don't know about the powerful heterogenous clans living on the same planet. TCW's portrayal of them becomes propaganda of the worst order. Darth Maul becomes a huge dupe for believing that he controls Mandalore when he actually doesn't.

    However, keep in mind that the Mandalorian group which Jango Fett joins doesn't resemble the Mandalorians in either the Republic Commando novels or TCW. They're all humans, serving in a roving band of mercenaries. They're tied down to no one planet and follow a military chain of command. Consider the problems associated with reconciling this portrayal with the well-known one in the aforementioned books. The Battle of Galidraan is rendered partially meaningless, and Jango Fett (leader of the losing side) becomes a huge whiner for not returning to Mandalore and leading the warrior clans as is his duty.

    These sources contradict. There will inevitably be major issues arising from an attempt to reconcile them. I've been pretty damn impressed by what I've seen of Jason Fry's attempt to reconcile TCW with the earlier sources, though. Unlike the above example of Jango being viewed IU as a whiner thanks to a retcon, he actually enhanced Satine's story quite a bit in Shadow Conspiracy, from what I can tell.

    Almec also says, "How [Jango Fett] acquired that [Mandalorian] armour is beyond me."

    He evidently doesn't know or care much about the struggle between Jaster Mereel's and Tor Vizsla's factions of roving mercenaries. If he did, he'd know where the armour came from. I agree with your point in general, but Jango Fett certainly isn't Almec's (or Pre Vizsla's) sort of Mandalorian.
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  19. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 29, 2002
    I found it very interesting TCW interpreted the population of Mandalore as the "Arian Race" of the GFFA. It fits the bill of a former warrior-centric people that easily seizes the opportunity to hand over their government into the hands of opportunists.
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  20. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    Unfortunately, this is the key point to this. When nothing else exists, of course your creation will appear to be the most important thing ever. The EU takes issue with this, and Jason Fry's brought it down to scale with everything that came before and—if the upcoming The Last Jedi novel is anything to go by—after. The statements of the show are now somewhat hyperbolic, and have to be taken with a slight grain of salt when considering the bigger picture of the planet.

    Sundari has become symbolic. Just as the New Mandalorian state is the one recognized by the Republic for it's pacifistic ideals, their capital is the recognized capital of Mandalore by...let's say most of the galaxy's external powers during this time. It's a symbol of the New Mandalorian ideal, and a beacon for its enemies. For Pre Vizsla, conquering the city is symbolic of his conquest of Mandalorian pacifism. Listen specifically to Vizsla's soliloquy in Eminence wherein he outlines his goals and Death Watch's struggle. He is satisfied.

    Why would Maul want Sundari? Again, it's the politically recognized capital city by the two thousand neutral systems that apparently looked up to the example set by the New Mandalorians during the Clone Wars. From their seat of power, he commands the influence Satine once wielded, even if he does so from the shadows. Remember, Maul doesn't seem to care at all about Mandalore other than as a powerbase, a place he can use to further his own ambitions outward into the galaxy.

    At first I saw the food shortage in the face of working farms point as just a bit of general Fridge Logic, and didn't think all that much of it. But now, now we've seen just how radical Satine's policies are. Now we see that the extent of her willingness to defend herself stops at droids, and that with a gun pointed to her head by an organic foe, she'd sooner let herself die than fight back. We see that with her people under siege, she'll just keep hoping the enemy will go away or something, rather than authorize an increased police force and the use of more hard-hitting those flamethrowers the police had for some reason back in Season 3. And speaking of Season 3, Satine will take no aid whatsoever for her starving people if it doesn't come from the Republic with its full blessing. Overlooking what the corrupt Moogans did for a moment, what was so incredibly unreasonable about looking to sources outside of the Republic if it meant keeping her people from starving? And let's not even get into how ridiculous it was to organize a cheering procession with confetti and the like for an offworld dignitary, when the funds for such would've been much better spent on the people in need.

    With all that in mind, how strange is it really to imagine that Satine would've unilaterally sworn off any help from those "violent brutes and savages" or some such from the warrior clans? Because with the government we've been shown, I don't find it surprising in the least. I am surprised, however, that the series would so thoroughly reinforce an unpleasant fan theory with such apparent vigor.

    The Republic doesn't want Mandalorian warriors, though, they want Mandalorian pacifists. It was only when the pacifist New Mandalorian state arose did the Republic welcome Mandalore into the fold and offer senate representation. And chronologically later, the CIS does strike a deal with the warrior clans, getting the Mandalorian Protectors on their side.

    It's not perfect, to be sure. But when you come in and flip off a large section of the EU and the associated section of the fandom, you're going to end up looking bad. By making the New Mandalorians in a certain way, they now have to live with the unfortunate implications of an all-white, human society living in the desert of a multi-ecosystem world.

    There's actually not that much conflict between Open Seasons and Republic Commando. The only real issue is that Hayden Blackman decided he was going to try to make Jango the Last of the Mandalorians™ even though Marvel's Star Wars run had already established Mandalorians still alive and kicking at a chronologically later point. And even that conflict was fixed quite satisfactorily with the History of the Mandalorians article, with the True Mandalorians just being an assembled army rather than representative of the entire Mandalorian population. Also, the True Mandalorians aren't all humans, either, we just see mostly humans when helmets are off. The comic could have used a bit more alien-oriented diversity, to be sure, but there's no telling who's under the majority of unremoved helmets or standing in the shadows of the pre-Korda briefing.

    The Battle of Galidraan does lose a bit of impact, considering it was supposed to be the last stand of the Mandalorians, but that goes back to Hayden Blackman not caring about the Marvel comics. The Republic Commando novels still mention the devastating impact of Galidraan, and note that it devastated the clans' standing army. Jango's not so much a whiner, as he is just a broken man. He's already lost both his biological family and his adopted one, and now his closest friends and comrades have been killed, he's been enslaved for several years, and he's just...worn out.
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  21. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 14, 2010
    You know, I've been convinced for years that there was some line in Sacrifice that had one of the Skirata Clan clones dismiss the Death Watch and the entire civil war as a schismatic feud, and that making me angry. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I kind of felt that no Mandalorian should be able to say that, period, because all real Mandalorians ( or True Mandalorians, natch) should have had a side they were supporting to their utmost, even if they couldn't participate in the actual fighting.

    And I think it can be inferred that the Mandalorian Incision, and possibly even the New Sith Wars, played a part in Mandalore's homogeny; the most electic and diverse we see the Mandalorians is probably in the KOTOR and TOR days, when they've got a multi- stellar range to roam as part of their empire building, and even then the majority we meet are distinctly human or near human. So chances are this human core becomes isolated on Mandalore when it gets stuck there by the Republic while Mandalore gets a few more Devaronians and the Mandallians are relegated to their planet. Add in a few centuries of limited breeding, and the clans start resembling each other.

    Also, sorry about the Mando'a's mess-up. I've kind of lost any care for traditional Mandos since I don't see much difference between Ghez Hokan and Traviss's interpretation of Fenn Shysa. There should be no resemblance at all between the two. Shysa should be a golden boy you could see being a Jedi, and not one of Traviss's interpretations of a Jedi, a real Jedi.
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Sep 2, 2012
    You are right.

    Page 131- Jaing & Boba:

    "My father, said Fett," finally destroyed the Death Watch. That's his legacy to Mandalore."
    "Sectarian feud. Irrelevant to most Mando'ade's lives. Now, are you going to give me a sample?"

    If Formbi can change as much as he does between Outbound Flight and Survivor's Quest (50 years) why can't Shysa change between 501st and Marvel Star Wars?
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  23. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    I believe you mean this line: "Sectarian feud. Irrelevant to most Mando'ade's lives."
    Personally, I see it as a logical thing to say, especially within the scope of the New Mandalorians' introduction to canon. Though the estimated population of Mandalorians living in the galaxy is something close 12 million (per Sacrifice), the Mandalorian Civil War was fought solely by the armies of the Death Watch and True Mandalorians. According to current canon, the New Mandalorians refused to take part at all. Assuming the forces depicted on page in Open Seasons weren't the entirety of either faction, let's round up to the generous number of two hundred on either side. That's still less than 2% of the estimated galactic Mandalorian population.

    As for ideology, I'm sure the Mandalorians felt rather strongly about one side or the other. But does it effect their daily lives? Look no further than the real-world "War on Terror", where for years coalition forces were involved in theaters across the Middle East. And yet, in these soldiers' homes like America and the UK, for people who didn't have a direct connection to those involved in the fighting, it was something far removed, something that was heard about on the news, something taking place somewhere else that didn't involve them. The Mandalorian Civil War took place primarily (as far as we know now in canon) on Concord Dawn, Korda 6, and Galidraan—two of these worlds aren't even in Mandalorian space. So while the Mandalorians may have felt quite strongly, with Clan Skirata clearly favoring the True Mandalorians, the Civil War wasn't something that brought itself to the average man's doorstep.

    I was just teasing about the difference between Mando'a and Mando'ade. But I don't see any resemblance between Hokan and Shysa whatsoever. One is an utterly unpleasant person, who thinks nothing of slaughter, considers the clones an abomination and a perversion of Jango Fett that deserve only death, and though he wasn't an official member, his personality would've made him a Death Watch shoe-in. While the other is a charming idealist, that while politically savvy, is nothing but affable toward those that disagree with him and is remembered in later novels as a Mandalorian hero for everything he did.
  24. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 29, 2011
    Mando'ade? Sounds tasty.
  25. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    Oh geez... :oops::p
    It's pronounced "Mando-ah-day", not "Mando-aid". Just a heads up.
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