Lit Why were NJO wiped out? How should NSLJO devlop?

Yes Kylo Ren and co did it.

But this question ponders why this direction was taken for the new continuity.

Why not take the popularity of the EU NJO and use it to inspire a new not dead NJO in Disney canon?

Having them all die and Luke becoming the last Jedi again is one of my big issues with this new world. Still hoping at least 1 other survived the attack, and just isn't a jedi anymore but could return to that state.

Not only is it a lazy path (not having other Jedi characters in the ST, etc) but it takes a crap on Lukes legacy. While im sure Disney isn't going to wipe out the Jedi in the ST, what happened to Luke's academy is a failure that shouldn't have been allowed. RoTJ represents a new birth of the Jedi Order, so seeing Luke's path come crashing down and then isolating himself from his friends/family is a poor choice to have made.

We already saw the Jedi at a very low point in their history at the end of RoTS, then of course the close to extinction in the OT. Taking that path again feels unnecessary. Having the ST open with an active NJO would have been a better choice. Ben Solo at this time recently becoming Kylo Ren. The NJO hurt and their home destroyed by the First Order. They have lost members but they haven't been wiped out, with Luke not being the last. Rey could have been one of the apprentices.

I wonder if making the NJO into a "New Short Lived Jedi Order" was to present the ST with a more OT feel. Giving us a Jedi order with more then 2 members would have been different from the OT imagery. Personally I would have liked to see on screen how different/similar a NJO was to the Old Order.

What are your thoughts on why an active NJO wasn't taken for the ST?


Alright im done with this part, onto the next.....
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I think their is a very good chance we will see in literature (an on going comic series?) or animation the existence of the NSLJO before Ben went dark.

During the days its alive, how should it compare to the EU NJO? What similarities or differences should their be to their Legends counterpart? Should nu canon versions of Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn, etc, be apart of Luke's first students?

What should their relationship be to the New Republic?

How would you like Ben Solo's pre-dark days to be explored?

 

Referring to the post-RotJ Jedi as the "NJO" in an NU context =

NuJO, if you must.

 

Or NJOINO

New Jedi Order In Name Only.

 

I think you're taking a narrow view of what 'should have' happened after ROTJ - it depends on how you view each trilogy thematically.

Perhaps:

Fall. The PT represents the fall of the Jedi and the victory of evil, largely a result of theirs and Anakin's failure.
Return. The OT represents the Jedi lost in the darkness, eventually returning to defeat the evil of the Sith.
Reflection. The ST represents, now that the Ren have risen from the Jedi, whether the Jedi ought return? Is their existence worth the possible fallen Jedi creating havoc? These questions will result in the Jedi rising again.
Rebuild. The SST may result in the rebuilding of the Jedi Order.

 

I'd like something like this. The ST could take the place of stories like the Thrawn trilogy where Luke is still struggling with assuming the mantle of the last Jedi, and is needing to take on an apprentice in the right way. Having the his order fully formed in TFA would have been a bit boring, I think. There's still a journey to go on to reach the ideal of a new Jedi order; bear in mind, the Praxeum didn't appear until 1994, so even in the EU it didn't just arrive wholesale.

 

The OT theme clearly makes money- or at least that what the folks at Disney feel. So I'm highly doubtful we'll ever see a star wars movie featuring dozens of active Jedi ever again.

"The force is meant to be mysterious"

That podracer took off long ago

 

My question is why would Luke survive a destruction of his academy?

Either he wasn't there, he was on a wild goose chase alone sent out by Snoke/Kylo ren et al to get him out of the way. In which case why was he on a mission alone? Shouldn't NEU Corran Horn or NEU Kyle Katarn have been at his side?

Or He was there and Snoke and/or Snoke/Kylo Ren was more powerful than he was. Like that Yoda vs Sidious battle.

 

I'm highly doubtful of "ever". The OT vogue was in response to the critical reception to the PT, and an attempt to return to the original feeling of Star Wars. Now we've got past that (along with the "it's just like ANH!" criticism) Lucasfilm is going to be expanding the universe again. The Last Jedi is going to at least be touching on wider Jedi lore judging by the trailer, and we've been getting increasing Prequel material in the books and comics. One aesthetic is a response to the last, and TLJ is already moving us from ANH to ESB and ROTJ territory, so there'll be more shifts to come.

Judging by what little we know of it from Rey's Forceback, the way he and Artoo are framed as separate observers to the burning temple suggests he arrives too late. And why would the Jedi Master need another Jedi with him? That's also assuming it was a planned attack a la Order 66, whereas it might simply have been (in)convenient timing. Or Luke's absence helped push Kylo just that bit too far at the wrong moment.

 

Until further notice, I'm just slotting the EU PC game 'Jedi Academy' and the EU novel 'Scourge' into my headcanon to fill in the gaps in Disney canon regarding the New Jedi Order. Taken as standalone stories, they contradict nothing in Disney canon.

I'm really not happy with how Disney decided to wipe out the Jedi again either. You don't need to have the heroes' agency destroyed to have bestselling films. SHIELD did not have to be destroyed for the Avengers film to be a hit. The Ministry of Magic did not have to be destroyed for the first Harry Potter film to be a hit. Why does the Jedi Order need to be destroyed?

As for how Kylo did the deed, I'm guessing he took a page from his grandfather's playbook--used a fake signal beacon calling all Jedi back to the temple for a fake reason, just like in Revenge of the Sith. Kylo knew he couldn't take Corran Horn, Mander Zuma, Jaden Korr, Mara Jade, and Kyle Katarn, among others, all at once in a fair fight.

Kylo, the Knights of Ren, and possibly Snoke himself hold Luke up and delay him from getting back to the temple ahead of time--Luke just knows something is wrong (he didn't activate the signal beacon). They jam his communications to prevent him from warning others.

Kyle Katarn and Mara and the others reach the temple but find nothing amiss. Then it explodes, and Luke, delayed by fighting off the Knights of Ren, arrives too late.

 

Luke: I see you have a new apprentice, Snoke. Or should I call you Supreme Leader of the First Order?!
Snoke: Master Skywalker, you survived.
Luke: Surprised?
Snoke: Your arrogance blinds you Master Skywalker. Now you will experience the full power of the Dark Side! (blasts Luke with Force lightning)

Snoke: I have waited a long time for this, my one-handed friend. Once again, the Jedi are no more.
Luke: Not if I have anything to say about it!
Snoke: You will not stop me. Kylo Ren will become more powerful than either of us!
Luke: Your faith in your new apprentice is misplaced, as is your faith in the Dark Side of the Force!

So you see, Disney isn't going into detail about the destruction of the New Jedi Order because it would just be a remake of Revenge of the Sith (fitting, since TFA was in a lot of ways a remake of ANH).

 

I agree that the almost immediate fall of the Jedi after rebuilding was an awful move.
Why was it done? Because having Jedi running around would feel like the Prequels. TFA was designed to replicate the OT so everything had to be reset; The Jedi had to be gone, the "Empire" needed to be back, the heroes needed to be the minority and so on.
How should the NuNJO develop? Unless we get a pre-ST animated series I doubt they'll be explored too much until after the ST. Honestly I'm not interested in getting familiar with the new Jedi. I surely wouldn't care about the EUNJO if I was told they would all die in twenty years.

 

And what's wrong with that?

 

Y'all remember the Hidden Temple from Legacy? I think having an underground temple of Jedi survivors would be a great addition to the ST. Imagine the heroes discovering that several Jedi apparently survived and set up a secret base. I think Mara Jade is likely to return and this would be a great way to do so. Plus having Jedi survivors would make the ST a little less grim. The surviving Jedi could maybe show up in the end and help them defeat the Rens.

 

Being like the PT? I don't think anything is wrong with that. However I think Disney's rationale was that the OT was more loved so the ST would resemble that and not the PT.

 

Oh. In that case I think you are spot on.

 

I'm wondering if some of the writers of Episode 7 did read the Jedi Academy Trilogy because of one of the plot points is similar but reversed. In the JAT Kyp Durron is turned to the dark side (by the spirit of the ancient Sith Exar Kun) and goes on a rampage, but he is turned back to the light by his role model Han Solo. It's interesting how this is turned on its head in TFA and yet is very similar to it with Kun and Smoke playing the same role.

As for the question I'm not really sure because whilst I wish we could of seen Luke successfully restore the Jedi Order like in the EU, it makes Rey being strong in the Force much more important than it would of been if there was several Jedi around. I would like to see Luke doing a good job with his teaching for a few years before Kylo goes bad at least but I'm not sure if it would work with the timeline or not.

 

Did Harry Potter seem less important just because there were a ton of other mages running around? I don't think having an existing Jedi Order makes Rey less important at all.

 

as long s those jedi are wafflers that can't see a threat in front of them if a sidious dropped into their laps (HP magicians)

 

I didn't like the Jedi Order being destroyed again, either. But I guess TFA had to be as similar to ANH as possible... I would even prefer if Luke had trained no new Jedi at all, to them being all killed just like that. It would make Luke seem less of a failure. They could have explained that for some reason Luke decided not to train any Jedi, but changed his mind when he met Rey. Rey then becomes his first apprentice.

 

Hot take: if someone comes and destroys everything you've devoted your life to building it doesn't make you a failure.

Honestly there's a whole lot of threads on this board asking us how stuff "should" be handled after the sequel trilogy when honestly we don't know how anything's going to be handled in the sequel trilogy yet.

 

depends on what you build. If you were a french language teacher and every single one of your students failed the standardized test, are you a failure?

 

You're right, actually, I shouldn't have used the word "failure." My bad. Still, it's very disappointing that Luke's work had to be destroyed so the movie can be similar to ANH.