PT Why weren't more Jedi sent to face Darth Maul?

I may not have been entirely serious .

 

Aye. Maybe they only sent two Jedi because Maul would have been "helpless" against more than that amount. Unless his weapon started sprouting even more blades.

 

In films you can go through and say why not and nitpick a lot but this is actually a good question, I admit.

Well for one, the Jedi did not see a Sith Lord emergence to be possible because they would have felt a disturbance. Plus Qui Gon seemed to disagree with the Council a lot so maybe they assumed Qui Gon was overreacting. A hint of arrogance in the Council as they just expected to feel a Sith uprising, not suspecting to have the Sith mask them from them

Yeah I can make excuses and say The Council were obviously not wanting to hear from QG for the rest of the day and I think Mace especially just arrogantly gave QG the cold shoulder. At least Yoda said "Hard to see the dark side is" , now only if he acted on that premise.



If 2 Jedi went to accompany QG and OB1, no doubt Maul is most likely arrested.

 

Well I still think the Council could have sent one Jedi at least to be certain that the mysterious warrior doesn't kill QG or OB1. I don't see how giving a little more help would have changed the operation. Just complacency it seems. I get they don't want to overreact, but Yoda even hints that the dark side is difficult to see.

 

You think so? I think Maul would have died fighting to the end. No way he let's the Jedi take him alive; he would probably take his own life first.

I think you're putting it too casually. Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master in his own right and didn't need a babysitter, what he needed was more backup yes; to ensure the increased safety of everyone involved.

 

if they had sent more jedi then Maul isn't daft , he wouldn't take on say 6 jedi by himself .

plus they can't really send a load of jedi 'cos its already a bit of an iffy situation politically , it could look like they're taking sides .

 

Since when were the Jedi not allowed to take sides against a Sith?

How did sending two Jedi against one Sith not look like they're taking a side against the Sith and his allies?

The TF claimed they weren't even at Naboo so how would anyone be opposed to the Jedi presence exposing their deception and illegality?

 

Sending a lot, say 50-60 Jedi would not be smart as then Maul would not show himself.
5-6? Hard to say what Maul would do.
And that assumes that he knows that there are 5-6 Jedi.
Say that only Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are dressed as Jedi and the others are dressed as Naboo guards.
Could Maul sense the exact number of the Jedi? I doubt it.
He would likely sense that there were Jedi but not the exact number.

Also, the Jedi HAVE taken a side, they support Padme against the TF.
So they can not claim neutrality here.

@CT-867-5309

Why of course?
Take ANH and imagine that ONLY Luke and Biggs had flown against the DS in X-Wings and we saw that the rebels had other pilots and fighters, they just didn't use them.
Would that make sense?

The JC did place some importance on this mission. They said they would use ALL their resources and that finding out about Maul was the KEY they needed to unlock the mystery of the sith.
So if it is this important, why are you only sending one master and one apprentice?
Just because it is a movie doesn't mean you disregard logic without it being noticeable.

If you only want two Jedi, fine, take the time to explain that.
Ex, have the JC reject what Qui-Gon says and so he decides on his own to go with Padme and get more proof. So that is why only he and Obi-Wan go.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

the jedis are the ones in the robes .

 

That doesn't change the fact that 2 v 1 was cheating.

No one said Jedi can't use double-sided lightsaber. They can as we've seen from Krell. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon could use double sided lightsabers, that wouldn't change the outcome.

 

Because they thought two Jedi would be sufficient to apprehend one assailant. And if there had been three Jedi sent in the movie you'd just have people asking why they didn't send four.

 

The fallacy of hindsight bias.

 

Exactly; and that's a problem. They placed political appearances above the lives of actual Jedi.

Send enough to apprehend a well trained assailant with a lightsaber. Send that many. Send enough that the assailant will surrender due to the futility of fighting back. A police department doesn't have an armed assailant on the loose and say:

"Okay, only send two cops, no back up. Two is enough. Oh the suspect is well armed and trained to use his weaponry and we think he might be part of a terrorism group sworn to destroy us? Oh yeah two cops is enough. Good luck Jones/Williams, go get to the bottom of this!"

 

Two Jedi is usually overkill. For the umpteenth time, they underestimated the threat.

But if you think they could just "send enough that the assailant will surrender due to the futility of fighting back", then you must have been watching a different movie. There's no way anything of the sort would have ever happened within the context presented by the movie. If there were more Jedi, Maul wouldn't have pissed his pants and surrendered, he just wouldn't have come out of hiding to attack them.

 

If there was any a time for "overkill," it's during the suspected return of a once-in-a-thousand years threat returning who is sworn to destroy you.

You're right. What am I thinking. There is no such thing as a stakeout or an ambush. Law enforcement/military operations have never feigned a reduced presence or weakness only to make their opponent appear, to then reveal their full force. Never. It's never been done.

 

Importantly - Maul had already shown he was comparable to Qui-Gon in lightsaber skill (maybe even better) on Tatooine - Qui-Gon reports this to the Council and that he was "well trained in the Jedi arts".

 

And for what we're told, the Jedi haven't been opposed to anyone with those skills for a thousand years. So just send the same two Jedi that ran into them before.

 

Right, but there's other Force users out there who might have the kind of skill set that would be sufficient to battle a Jedi who was caught with his pants down. As far as the Council is concerned, Maul was nothing more than an Inquisitor or a Nightbrother. Not a Dark Lord of the Sith. He even admits at first that he has no clue as to who and what Maul was. He only guesses that he was a Sith, which while correct, because of his speculative guess that Anakin is the Chosen One. Otherwise, he wouldn't have believed that he was a Sith.

 

Yes, no kidding! They didn't take it seriously enough. They didn't really think it was a Sith Lord, and so they didn't think it was worth sending an entire Jedi task force into an already delicate geopolitical environment. Am I talking to a lamppost here?

That doesn't work with a Force user who can immediately sense your presence. I thought that would have been obvious. I apologize for not explaining it to you.

 

The dialogue from the film suggests otherwise:

"This is the clue we need to unravel this mystery of the Sith."

Oh my god, your right. Force users, including Jedi Masters, can't cloak their Force presence so others can't sense them, it's never been done. For instance, Obi-Wan wasn't able to hide aboard Padme's ship to stop Anakin, a man who he had spent 13 years side by side with, from sensing him. Anakin sensed him as soon as the ship entered the system, right? And Palpatine sensed Yoda coming down the hallway into his office, he stuck around for fun, right? And Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan sensed Maul on Tatooine the whole time, right??

 

As has been said, Qui-Gon fought Maul and had to make a quick escape.
So Qui-Gon KNOWS Maul is no pushover.
And assuming he told the JC all about it, they would know too.
So one Jedi Master can't beat this guy, so let's add one apprentice and now it will be easy.

Also, if the Jedi think that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan can take down Maul with little trouble, why didn't they go after Maul on Tatooine?
Then there was just Maul alone vs Qui-Go, Obi-Wan plus a few Naboo guards.
But on Naboo, Maul can now pull on the full might of the TF army.
So in the former case, a quick retreat is needed but in the latter, now they can totally take Maul.
Maul alone, too much for two Jedi. Maul with an army to back him up, two jedi can deal with that.

Underestimate does not begin to cover it.

And again, the issue is partly that they say they will use ALL their resources and that Qui-Gon's mission was the key the needed.
So the mission is apparently quite important and while they at first didn't think Maul was a sith, when Qui-Gon leaves they seemed to have reconsidered a bit.
Plus they had the TF army to worry about as well.

And are they there to capture Maul, kill him or just to look at him?
The latter two won't give them much info. And Qui-Gon had already looked at Maul but that was not enough for the JC. So if he just looks at Maul again and comes back and says "Yeah I saw him again I still think he is a sith." Why would that change anything for the JC? His word was not good enough the first time, why would it be now?
And if the goal is just to kill Maul, again why would that change anything?
Qui-Gon comes back and says, "I fought and killed this dark warrior." Why would that be the key if he was a sith or not?
If the council don't fully believe Qui-Gon then why didn't one or two of them come along and look at Maul?
And if the goal is to capture him, then having more Jedi would make sense as capture is usually harder than killing.

Force users sensing other Force users has not been very consistent.
In ANH Vader senses Obi-Wan when he is next to the MF but not when he is over the planet.
In ESB, both Vader and Palpatine can sense Luke but in RotJ Vader can sense Luke on the MF but Palpatine can't.
The Supreme Chancellor
Already gave a few other examples.
Also, if Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were there but along 2-3 other jedi dressed as guards, then Maul would only see two Jedi. And while he might sense that there are Jedi there, that he would sense the exact number is a bit more of a stretch.

And as I've said, sending only two jedi to take down Maul, who has an army to aid him, that kind of removes the tension. The heroes think this will be pretty easy and make a very halfhearted effort.
It would be like the rebels only send Luke and Biggs against the DS and they let the rest of their pilots stay on the ground.
"Yeah two X-wings will be able to handle the DS, it is overkill really."

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

That doesn't mean that they think he is a Sith. Remember, they earlier said that it is impossible for the Sith to have come back and that they were extinct. Mace is making a generalization about this warrior, who might be a Sith or might be a wannabe. There is more to the dark side than just the Sith. Especially during the PT era.

Qui-gon wasn't planning to leave. He tells Anakin to tell the others to take off. He was willing to stay behind to keep Maul off their ass. It just so happens that Obi-wan chooses to order Ric to fly over so that he can escape. The fight ends because of that.

They leave Tatooine because their priority is not to fight Maul, but to get Padme to Coruscant and they would be derelict in their duty for abandoning her. They'd face severe reprimands for doing so. When they do go to Naboo, if Maul is a Sith, then two Jedi may or may not be enough. If he is nothing more than a Nightbrother, then he won't last very long against two Jedi. If he is, he may not be that powerful that he can take on two Jedi.

Using their resources means going to places where the Sith called home, like Moraband and Malachor V and doing some research on if those places were visited by someone. As well as going through the Archives database on all the known Sith Lords and seeing if they've missed anything.

If they can capture him alive, they'd lock him up as Obi-wan was locked up...



Then wait for a transport to take him back to the Temple, where he can be interrogated as to who he is and where he is from and if he is alone or not. As to the Droid Army, it should be remembered that most of the Battle Droids are out fighting the Gungan Army. And when the duel begins, Maul is alone and the Jedi send the strike team on their way, saying that they'll handle it. The Droidekas that entered the hangar were sent by Nute and Rune and were fortunately dealt with by Anakin.

And yes, Jedi and Sith can be captured. As we saw, Obi-wan was captured. Anakin later captured the rogue Jedi Barriss Offee and a group of Clonetroopers captured Pong Krell. Kanan Jarrus was captured and taken to Mustafar where he was tortured by Tarkin. Anakin himself was captured a couple of times during the war. Hell, Anakin, Obi-wan and Dooku were all prisoners of Hondo Okanda.

 

edit: a new post came in between, I'll write this just to make sure that it isn't meant as an answer to darth-sinister. It should be obvious because of the content, but you can never be too certain


The short battle on Tatooine is hardly proof that Qui Gon couldn't beat Maul, nor is it proof that it is beyond the capabilities of a Jedi Master to beat Maul, all that is just conjecture on your part.

The Jedi weren't trying to fight Maul on Tatooine. I have no idea what that point is even supposed to be about. Maul started a surprise attack against Qui Gon, Qui Gon had no idea who he was or what exactly he wanted. At no point was it in the plans to take on Maul on that occasion. Of course Obi Wan could have joined in instead of helping Qui Gon to get away, but that wasn't their job. Their job at that point was to protect the queen and bring her to Coruscant so that she could talk to the senate. It is neither the time nor the place to ignore the security of the queen and her crew just to deal with a person who has attacked them. That is called putting your duty about everything else.

Some people really love to ignore posts that are made, don't they?
Someone mentions that you can't just send tons of Jedi to a place that is not officially under investigation, sending Qui Gon and Obi Wan in the first place went beyond the rules, somehow that gets ignored. Someone mentions that sending tons of Jedi alongside the queen will lead to the secret attacker staying hidden, thus preventing an encounter in the first place, yet that gets ignored as well. Someone mentions that "using all resources to check the identity" does not equal sending all these Jedi to deal with him directly, yet somehow that gets ignored. You garner information by checking databases, following leads, doing all sorts of investigations. None of that needs to be seen on screen, none of that has much to do with Qui Gon and Obi Wan being ordered to protect the queen. That complaint is equally absurd as the "he lasted 32 seconds" one. As if cutting back and forth between scenes doesn't already imply that time is passing, as does people being in other positions than the last time we saw them. Luke didn't magially teleport to another place on Bespin during his duel with Vader, he went there off screen, because that's what happens in movies. You do not need to show every single move. That's were these complaints get even more ridiculous. At times things are getting told and it somehow is too much, in others it is implied or people have to realise it on their own, and suddenly more is needed. You can't possible hold both stances at the same time. Either you need all the information being handed to you, or you don't. But you can't just randomly use one or the other whenever it suits you.

There is no reason to assume that Qui Gon and Obi Wan couldn't handle Maul. They are both highly trained Jedi who know how to fight. Qui Gon held his own against Maul just fine, and that was at a point where he couldn't possibly know that he would be attacked. By the time they reach Naboo, the surprise was gone. While it was by no means certain that Maul would appear there, Qui Gon and Obi Wan were prepared for the possibility, and that is what truly matters. There is a huge difference between knowing about the possibility of a fight and being prepared for it on the one side, and being attacked out of nowhere on the other.

Anyway, their true mission at that point was to protect the queen, not to go after Maul. If he would show up, he could be taken onto custody or dealt with otherwise, but it isn't their primary mission. There was nothing to indicate that Maul was someone who two Jedi couldn't handle, an assumption that proved to be correct. It's rather odd to say that the Jedi should have sent more to Naboo, seeing how they couldn't possibly be certain that the attacker would appear there. As has been mentioned before, the Jedi can't just send tons of Jedi on the vague guess that a person may be on a planet, if the situation is already delicate to begin with. The Jedi aren't even supposed to be there, yet you suggest that they sending quite a few of them to Naboo would somehow go over well?
There is a reason why the chancellor sent the Jedi on a secret mission to Naboo. That's because they aren't supposed to be there in the first place. How neutral would it look if a whole group of Jedi would travel with the queen of Naboo based on the vague excuse that they are looking for an mysterious attacker?
There would be a huge outcry in the senate, and that isn't really something anyone needs.

Your examples for force users sensing each other don't work out either.
Vader can sense Obi Wan on the Death Star because he is nearby and has no plans of evading a confrontation (as Vader himself states). The situation was entirely different while Obi Wan was hiding on a planet (a lot farther away than he was on the DS). Obi Wan's goal on Tatooine was to prevent anyone from finding him or Luke. He had no such plans on the Death Star. The situations couldn't have been more different.
In ESB, the Emperor can feel the general emergence of Luke as a force user. That is similar to Snoke sensing an awakening in TFA. It does not say anything about the Emperor feeling his presence at any point, because the Emperor wasn't anywhere close to Luke at any point of the movie. Vader, on the other hand, is obviously close to Luke on Bespin. In general terms, whether someone can sense another force user seems to depend on how well they know each other and what the intent of the other person is. Vader can sense Luke, and Luke can sense Vader, but that only happens after their fight on Bespin. The Emperor has no personal connection to Luke, and Luke only has the intention to see his father, not to meet the Emperor, which might explain while Vader can sense him while Palpatine cannot. In RotJ, Palpatine was much farther away frum Luke anyway, unlike Vader, who was on board of his SSD when Luke's shuttle was passing it. In the PT, meanwhile, Palpatine has the plan to hide his true identity from the Jedi, and he's so powerful that he can pull it off. Again, that's the difference between a force user trying to hide and not trying to hide. When it comes to TPM, Qui Gon definately knew that something was up, he didn't exactly know what it was, but he must have felt enough to hurry back to the ship (see him and Anakin running). That's the difference between knowing and having a vague feeling that something is happening.

 

"All is fair in love and war"

"two heads are better than one"

etc, etc.

 

It means they are well aware that he could be a Sith. Enough to call this case "the mystery of the Sith."