PT Why Yoda?

In the novel it's phrased in a looser way "While the Force has never been explained, scientists theorise that it's an energy field created by all living things".

Aboard the Falcon Ben says "No-one, not even the Jedi scientists, was able to completely explain the Force. Possibly no-one ever will."

 

Whats wrong the force having a science aspect to it??

 

At least until the Dooku fight that was true. Then we got pinball-yoda.

 

You were saying? What then is this device that counts how many Forces you have.

 

It does what? I suggest that you watch the movie again.

 

I'm going to plug this article again.

The relevant quote from Lucas himself:

It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call [midichlorians]. They’re kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different species, a different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the ​

Force itself and use the powers of the Force.​

 

Hmm, seems to be a device into which one inserts a blood sample and receives a midichlorian count. Sounds pretty sciencey to me. In fact it sounds an awful lot like a blood glucose meter where you take a sample of your blood, insert it into the meter, and it gives you a blood glucose reading. Oh sorry, does that work by magic or is it sciencey? Although it is pretty stupid that this Force Meter doesn't have its own built in display and is dependent on a console in a starship to read its data. It's almost as if it was a poorly thought out plot device to show Anakin is powerful and to somehow let Obi-Wan know he was powerful too, but crap Obi-Wan is knitting needlepoint on the ship for some reason that's detrimental to the story and the character... Hmm, a functionally crippled Force meter that requires Obi-Wan on the ship, that'll work, says George in his inner monologue. Not to mention Qui-Gon brought this thing with him, presumably from Coruscant, and is using it with a Naboo ship. Maybe it's like Bluetooth and it just works? I sure hope it isn't sending that information to Darth Maul's Sith Interceptor by mistake...

Maybe you're the one who needs to watch the movie again. Right there, in that very spot, Star Wars is irreparably ruined forever.


"Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midi-chlorian count that high!" Nope, no sciencey stuff here... Only finding out by a quantized number and well defined scientific procedure with a device whose sole purpose is to count how many Forces a blood sample has. Nope, doesn't sound sciency at all. It's all a mystical, spiritual abstract concept.


Oh, and where exactly in the OT did we have a force meter?

And please, I beg you, for the love of God, don't make me watch The Phantom Menace again!

 

Exaggeration much? They don't even get mentioned again until Palpatine's little story in ROTS.
How do you deal with the fact that the Force was "sciency" in the OT? The "energy field"? The genetic traits?

 

Congratulations. That's a bit more accurate to the truth this time.

And it is.

What? I'm still trying to see the correlation with your previous post. You mentioned a device that "counts how many Forces you have", not a device which makes a midi-chlorian count. The former doesn't exist.

There is no Force Meter. There is a communication device which has the ability to send blood sample data to another computer. How is it stupid?

How is it a poorly thought out plot device?

Fortunately that wasn't the case.

What the...

I don't. But I'l gladly watch it whenever I want.

Where?

What a weak strawman. What will it take for you to learn that there is no "Force meter" device.

We didn't. But then again, we didn't have one in the PT either.

Your loss.

 

When they invent a sense-of-humor meter yours will read 0.

 

Are you saying that your argument was all a joke? But yes, my sense of humor is 0 on humourless jokes.

 

I'm still waiting explanation from janstett about the Force being at least partially scientific in the OT.

 

"The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And my sister has it." - Luke Skywalker, Return of the Jedi

 

Well, yes, I'm wondering if he thinks it's not scientific.

 

Although I'm not arguing with you about who is more powerful, there are faults with some of your points:

1) Kenobi was assigned these missions, he didn't task himself with them. These missions were central to the plot of the saga, so the others may have had important missions of their own during the films, but off-screen.
2) That cartoon had everyone overpowered and doesn't match the Grievous we see in the movies. The Grievous we see in ROTS is Lucas' version of Grievous, while the Clone Wars series' version of Grievous is the vision of other people. And this point does not prove that Kenobi was more powerful than Mundi, even if he was. Take into account the Anakin>Dooku>Kenobi>Anakin loop.
3) The ROTS novel indicates that after Windu and Yoda, the best duelists in the Order were Fisto, Tiin and Kolar.
4) Although he was very wise, we don't have proof that he was the wisest second only to Yoda. Each Council member were in different situations when Order 66 was initiated, and some Jedi survived by luck rather than pure skill/power - Kenobi being a perfect example.
5) Although true, it was actually Maul who defeated Kenobi in the lightsaber duel, Kenobi managed to bisect Maul in the end mainly due to the latter's arrogance, not because he was stronger.

 

That would be because it isn't at least not in a clinical sense. "Hereditary" is not sufficient, as walking a certain way or having a certain sense of humor could be argued to be hereditary. There's no DNA test for sense of humor, for example. It can be argued to be biological in nature but that doesn't make it clinically scientific.

So keep waiting.

I'm saying explicitly calling it "Forces" instead of "Midichlorian count index" is the humorous bit and obviously that part made klaxons sound in your head as you got offended by it.

 

Isn't it described as an energy field rather explicitly by Kenobi in ANH?

 

I give up on trying to understand that concept. If being hereditary is not scientific in the "clinical sense" (whatever that means) how are the midi-chlorians (which aren't the Force) a scientific aspect of it?

Offended? Where?

 

But the Force abilities are not "argued to be hereditary", they're clearly shown to be so, just like the the color of the eye or disposition to certain diseases. You might as well claim cloning destroys Star Wars because it's too scientific.

 

Well, thread officially derailed. ..haha..

 

It's a ladyshave.

http://www.partsofsw.com/Ep_1/quicom.htm

 

Saying that 'Midichlorians are a physical manifestation of The Force' in no way implies that the force wouldn't exist without them. Actually, it states the opposite.

 

*facepalm

 

Energy as a part of the science called "Physics" obviously ends where Star Wars begins. At least for some Star Wars fans.
We don't have to understand it. Perhaps they just hate "Biology" for some reason. Who knows.

 

Star Wars is a science fantasy. It's a fairy tale set in a technologically advanced society, not Middle-earth. The Force is not just "magic" it has a physical manifestation which means it can be studied by science.

I can see why someone would consider midichlorians being too much explanation but saying that the Force = midichlorians is wrong as it's not supported anywhere in the films.