Why ?

Discussion in 'FanForce Communications' started by KitFist0, Jul 8, 2004.

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  1. _Derisa_Ollamhin_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Well, that pretty much answers his questions, I would say.

    Dawn, I have a question for you. If YJN is entitled to answers to his questions, as they show serious concerns, and were to the point that something underhanded might have been going on... where were you defending me, when I asked serious, to-the-point questions about the future of Canada's General forums? Your most recent post would have sounded good when I was requesting some answers, especially the bit that goes This is, after all, treatment and courtesy that anyone should expect(emphasis added). I will post a sample of those, so you can see what was being asked.

    EDIT: since the topic has now been locked, I have only a short time in which to respond to the last post on this thread.

    Here's the text of the post I was working on when this thread was locked.

    I'll not have my actions questioned, expecially when I'm trying my best to accomidate everyone across the country, instead of giving into what one parties wants.

    Okay, whoa there! The specific actions I have been questioning are the name changes and the stated-purpose changes to all the Canadian Regional forums. Your decision impacted all of us. When it was pointed out to you by several users (not one specific chapter or region even, you only just changed the names back today. So the name changes were ill thought out, and the delay was odd.

    The real thing of concern to me was not the Social forum you just created, but these "other functions" you have been considering. Did you plan to make the old General forums reply only: no new topic forums? Or invisible? Because that's the only reason I can think that you would take such offense to my asking about your plans. Please correct me if I am wrong, and explain your response if that is the case. Why is it so offensive to you that people are questioning your plans?

    I really resent being made to look like a whiny individual who has hounded you out of office or at least on an extended vacation. Please refute that appearance, for it is not the case in the least. It was never my intention to exaccerbate your stress level: I just wanted some answers, since your actions affect the whole of Canada's Fan Force.


    Pointed questions were asked, and since that time, I have been fielding blame that I hounded YJN out of office, when it was clear to me and anyone who read the thread before he deleted it that he didn't want to answer those questions.

    Why do his questions merit answers, Dawn, when mine merit threads being locked and / or deleted, or an officer of the club declaring he will not have his "authority" questioned, when all he had to do was answer the concerns that had been posted.

    He got his answers, here they are, above this post, two GSA's and an RSA have answered his question. So, I ask you again, why do his questions merit answers, when mine merit only obfuscation from him?


    *Derisa*
  2. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    It is, I would say, a point very much of interest - and one that I should hope would be addressed - to consider how, previously in this thread, it was stated (with a startlingly decisive, set-in-stone tone) that no direct answers would be forthcoming with regards to questions that had been raised here....and, moreover, it was also stated that certain decisions still had to be made, or certain people were still trying to figure out what was to be done to resolve the matter....in general, this sort of response only furthered the conclusion that the situation was rather complex, messy, and difficult....and hence, especially given information disclosed, suspicions and doubts only continued to grow.

    And yet....now the line that seems to be taken here is that it all never really was that complicated or messy, and in fact, that all YJN ever had to do was ask, and "his powers would be given back". Incidentally, that in itself does strike as a rather off-putting and unsettling turn of phrase....not, perhaps, the best way to be putting it....considering. However, to continue, in any case.... So suddenly now, the "party line", as it were, being stated thusly is that it could all be resolved so simply, with no fuss, no mess at all....nothing outstanding to worry about....and yet, that is the exact opposite of what has been explicitly stated here before. Thus, it is quite clear that the smokescreening continues....at the very least, it seems evident that there is much to doubt and be suspicious of here. One moment, one answer is given, then the next it's something completely opposite and contradictory....it is thus understood, I am sure, how troubling and disturbing that is.

    It is quite clear to me also that YJN, as a devoted, stalwart, determined RSA, who has already suffered much and had to deal with far more trouble than anyone should ever have to in an entire *lifetime* - well, suffice it to say, he certainly deserves far more respect and care, and a willingness to maintain and open, fair dialogue on equal footing, than he has been getting. As would be the case for anyone, better treatment and awareness is certainly merited. As well, perhaps, as a certain sense of transparency-of-motive....unless, of course, people would care to see such trouble as this continue. And I sincerely doubt that anyone would, no matter their motives otherwise....


    Dawn.
  3. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    It is, I would say, a point very much of interest - and one that I should hope would be addressed - to consider how, previously in this thread, it was stated (with a startlingly decisive, set-in-stone tone) that no direct answers would be forthcoming with regards to questions that had been raised here....and, moreover, it was also stated that certain decisions still had to be made, or certain people were still trying to figure out what was to be done to resolve the matter....in general, this sort of response only furthered the conclusion that the situation was rather complex, messy, and difficult....and hence, especially given information disclosed, suspicions and doubts only continued to grow.

    No direct answers would be coming until said answers existed. All that was asked of you was to wait until a resolution had been reached IN PRIVATE between the GSAs, RSAs and YJN so that this sort of drama could be avoided, but you all INSISTED on making it public and trying to make a martyr of him. He told you something, and as his friend you took his word for it, which is acceptable. What is being asked of you now is that you accept that there is more to the story than what you were initially told.

    You people must take drama lessons or something. This didn't need to be a public spectacle.
  4. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    Whoa...there's no need to use the lord's name in vain there hawk. Can you please edit that out?
  5. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Fair enough, didn't realise people took that much offence to it around here. My apologies. :)
  6. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    Thanks, I appreciate it. To me that's one of the worst swears in the book.
  7. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    I've been really wanting to stay out of this discussion.

    I don't like conflict.

    I don't like the people who are the main instigators.

    I will likely have what I type misread as either a proxy for Chris, or seen as a bias because we are members of the same club.

    However I really must ask this question.

    If Chris is on vacation (one which I fully support btw), and on vacation only, then why was his name removed as Canadian RSA in the Western forums?

    Canada General, The Ontario forums, the eastern forums still list him as RSA (which despite vacation he should still be listed).

    The Western forums, and the source of the largest continual complaints, show only Mike as RSA. Umm, if Chris was demoted by the GSAs then that would make sense.

    So which is it? Is he demoted and his name should be removed from every Canadian forum header or is he simply on vacation, and like it or not, his name has every right to be listed as RSA?

    Until its been formally announced that he has stepped down his name should be listed as usual.

    There is no precedent of a vacationing RSA having his name removed from informational locations in the forums.

    I would like to see my question answered, but I have no intention of discussing the issue any further, I want zero conflict. I will only accept PMs from a GSA regarding this topic.
  8. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    Hello? Anyone planning to answer my question??
  9. Elan-Rai RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2001
    star 4
    I believe a couple of the GSAs are out of the loop right now. MJF is at Comicon I believe. I'm sure once she gets back or checks this thread, she'll get in touch with you.
  10. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    I was unaware that he had been removed from any of the threads or headers.

    When did this happen?
  11. Mara_Jade_Fan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    As Jay stated, I was gone at Comic Con and didn't have much computer access till this afternoon.

    YJN's name was removed from the headers of Western Canada by Crazy_Mike per the request of the CRs in that region. They asked for his name removed as a contact person since he is still on an extended leave. Their concern was that since he was on extended leave, if potential newbie members contacted him, and if he didn't respond, this would turn off newbie members.
  12. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Well, clearly that was not at all a concern for the CRs elsewhere, because his name has remained as a contact person in such places as the Eastern forums. And this, in turn, only makes the judgement call to remove his name from the Western forums even more stupefying - flatly and plainly put, in what world does it make sense for a small, limited group of people to demand such a thing, claiming it to be such a concern? How is it at all reasonable or right for this to only take place on the Western forums, but then not the whole of Canada? After all, if it were indeed such a legitimately worrying concern, then it would have been an issue up for consideration *everywhere*, all through the whole of the Canadian forums....if it was *that* big a deal, I mean....*not* just in one place. And the fact that it *has* basically happened in one place is extremely suspect, and a matter not at all resolved by the explanation. Again, plainly put - the above explanation only leads to further dissenting questions.

    Such as....were the other RSAs of *Canada*, for whom this is an issue in which they should have definite and fair, justified say, considering that this *is* the Canadian region we're talking about! - were *they* fairly consulted at all about this clearly arbitrary judgement call? And if it's not such a matter of continuing and great concern, why did it take Woofer consistently pressing for an answer for *any* further information to be revealed? In other words, if it was all so honest, open and above-board and nothing at all to worry about....*why* did it have to get to this point, now? The fact of the matter is, it *has* indeed come to this; and moreover, there has *not* been transparency and honesty displayed in dealing with the situation. At every turn, we in the Canadian region - who are of course directly affected by such things - have had to consistently fight for real, fair answers. This was *not* handled right, not at all from the start, that's obvious.

    A limited number of CRs from *one* region of Canada - which, I will remind you, has *several* regions, so please be aware of it! - make such an issue out of it, and thus before you know it, arbitrary judgement calls are being made basically behind closed doors....*no one* is keeping the rest of us properly and fairly informed of what is going on, when of course we have a right to know - being in the Canadian region, and thus, under the demesnes of YJN as *our* RSA! Somehow, clearly, it's but a limited number of people whose "concerns" were given greater weight than the opinions, perspectives and feelings of the rest of us. It is clear, indeed, that this has *not* been handled rightly. It is highly suspect, troubling and dissenting....clearly, Woofer was very right to be dubious and wary. We *all* were, and yet remain so. For it is a sad, sad, disturbing day indeed, I will say, when a very limited, *very* select group of people can be allowed to incite such trouble for all.

    It's a sad, trying, disappointing day indeed when *their* opinions so obviously count for more than those of the rest of us....sad, indeed, because *nothing* about any of this is fair, even-handed or above-board. It's sad, indeed, when the standards are so clearly *not* applied justly and equally across the board. It is, indeed, a case of double standards, a truly unfair playing field that is not in the least bit level....and that, too, is very, very sad. Truly, deeply.

    And of course this supposed "extended vacation" of his "own free will" is only looking ever more suspicious....that, too, is a simple fact and also only to be expected and thus addressed - when you consider how worryingly and aggrievingly badly the *rest* of this has been handled. *Nothing* about any of this is right.


    Dawn.
  13. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Your posts are too long.

    there has *not* been transparency and honesty displayed in dealing with the situation.

    Transparency and honesty to who? You? The communication between the involved parties (i.e. the GSAs and Chris) might not have been as clear as it should be, which caused this problem and is unfortunate, but I'm quite sure that the GSAs at least were being honest about everything they said. As for transparency, YJN was told what was happening (see previous sentence), and aside from putting yourself into this issue, you have no bearing nor input on the situation whatsoever. There is no requirement for the GSAs to tell the world everything that is going on before the discussions have even been finished.

    And of course this supposed "extended vacation" of his "own free will" is only looking ever more suspicious....

    Now this bit I find funny. You're his friend, right? Perhaps you could tell us why he hasn't contacted the GSAs yet. It could be because he's on an "extended vacation" of his "own free will". At the very least, he can speak for himself here, he's an intelligent person who doesn't need people to speak for him. I think this whole situation would benefit from his POV when/if he returns from his vacation. It's ultimately his choice if he does, though.
  14. Primrodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4
    It could be because he's on an "extended vacation" of his "own free will".

    This statement is false.
  15. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Doubtful, Hawk dear. My posts are just fine....this, many, many others have told me at great length and with equal satisfaction - so nothing need change. I will continue to post as I have, what I have posted, because it is merited and necessary....because it is honest and very heartfelt. Considering the alternatives, I could never do nor be anything else, thank you very much.... And as pertaining to Primrodo's very telling and indicative point, thusly posted - one wonders, unfortunately, if any sort of forthright and above-board answer will be forthcoming....instead of the current attitude of smokescreening, veiling, double-speak and misleading "rationale" and justifications. So long as the situation remains gravely errant, and it is all too obvious that things have gone awry - we shall continue to seek the out-in-the-open truth....even more importantly, for it to actually be *admitted* here. Perhaps until that point, any sort of trust or faith will remain very shaky and dubious....


    Dawn.
  16. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    This statement is false.

    Then I can only assume he's retired, because he is free to come back to the boards and discuss returning as an RSA should he wish to do so.

    As for your post, Qui-Dawn, considering half of it was defending your posting style and the other half was non-specific accusations without evidence or justification, there isn't much I can reply to.
  17. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    in what world does it make sense for a small, limited group of people to demand such a thing, claiming it to be such a concern? How is it at all reasonable or right for this to only take place on the Western forums, but then not the whole of Canada?

    Individual chapters are allowed to customized their forums. Links to CRs, RSAs, or other club officers can be requested by the CR themselves, just like announcement lines, customized links, etc.

    The point of giving each chapter their own forum is so that each chapter (your 'small, limited group of people') has it's own home, and can modify the forum as they desire.

    ~H~
  18. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    This statement is false. This statement is false.

    No, it's not. The ball is in YJN's court, we're just waiting for him to contact us, something he's yet to do. Hence we can only assume he's on a vacation as he as yet to tell us anything to the contrary. If you can direct me to somewhere he has, however, I'd appreciate it. :)
  19. CrazyMike JC Collecting Manager and RSA Canada

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 7
    My post has been long over due here and I am sorry that I have not spoken up sooner. I have found myself very saddened by the events that have gone on in the past weeks. Chris and I were very close friends and we used to see each other at least once a month. We have worked well together for quite a while now. While we were good friends we have always had very different ways of moding. Chris has always been by the book and is the type of person to take the bull by the horns. I on the other hand, have always been interested in making friends with everyone here on the boards. Chris was rock solid when he said YES or NO while I could be very wishy washy with my decisions. I have always looked at these boards as a place to make friends and for people to have an enjoyable experience and while people have said that I am too soft as a RSA I have not taken offense to that. I have always tried to look out for the best interest of Canada as Chris does but there comes a time where there is a difference of opinion. The Western Canada forum was that item that split our opinions. It was then left up to the GSAs to make the decision on what to do and they did. While I can say that I was aware of some of the friction that existed Between Chris and a few FF members here in Canada, I am not at liberty to go into the details as talks are taking place at the moment with the hopes that a resolution to be found to patch up some of the bad feelings have been created by this unfortunate incident. I can tell you all without a shadow of a doubt that Chris is one of the most decent people that I have ever met in my life an dany of you out there that know Chris will agree with me. He does come across different on these boards but it is not his intention to harass or to intimidate people.

    My hopes are that my relationship with Chris has not been destroyed and for him to return. I hope that there will be changes made in the RSA structure in Canada when Chris comes back that will be acceptable to all of the CRs in Canada. Finally I hope that there can be a resolution reached between Chris and the GSAs. A lot of things have been said that I do not believe were meant to come across the way that they did.


    I invite any of you that have concerns that you feel I can help address to please pm me. I promise to try my best to address them and to even try to speak to you over the phone if you wish. I am not the best at putting my feelings to text but I sincerely hope that this situation can be resolved and that this dark cloud will be gone as we approach CIII and the release of EPIII.

    Thank you for your time,

    Mike
  20. Primrodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4
    Shara, did you just quote me twice? Interesting.

    I have no where to direct as when you talk to someone in person I don't take an account verbatim of what was said in order to press a point later.
  21. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, I did. Somehow I don't think that's the major part of my point.

    My point is that whatever people have heard and whatever misunderstandings have occured over this, what the GSAs have said in this thread IS where we stand atm. So you can't really that what we're saying is false when there's evidence that what we're saying is correct.
  22. Primrodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4
    I said HawkNC was false in his staement of what YJN was doing. Having had personal contact, face to face, with Chris I know his statement that hes on leave/on vacation/taking time off is completely false. Hense why I said that he was wrong. I don't have to go in depth to make my points. Hes wrong and you all know it.

    Quoting me twice does nothing but make it look like you think I have very littel in regards to knowledge in this matter, thinking I am whining, and really bringing you down to a level of pettiness which I never associate with any RSA/GSA.

    The fact is I have seen teh two-faced nature in this very thread about how its all Chris's responsibility to do what he wants and to come back etc. Did it ever occur to you that the name "YoungJediNiagara" is more than that? That theres a human being behind that name who has done more as RSA than anyother RSA I know of. He travelled across Canada to patch up anything that was cropping up, his domain of RSA is what 5 times the size of any others?

    The way this whole senario was handled was handled very bad. Its no secret that Victoria area of Canada had it out for Chris and its been that way since I remember.

    All this is over him not granting a "social forum" for them and they went over his head and complained. Which should NEVER have been done. He didn't call them names or abuse power, he didn't do anything to incite this nor the removal of his name on the upper segment on ANY boards.

    I'm sorry but please don't insult my intelligence or my knowing of whats really happening here. Its not just those posting on this thread that have a problem with this...Its country wide, including some US.
  23. _Derisa_Ollamhin_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    I said HawkNC was false in his staement of what YJN was doing. Having had personal contact, face to face, with Chris I know his statement that hes on leave/on vacation/taking time off is completely false.

    He denies that he took a vacation? I posted that in this thread already: if he is denying what he said then, he is lying to you, Primrodo. What happened after that is between him and the GSAs. They have stated all he needs to do is log on (something he hasn?t done for a while) and tell them he wants his job back, and they will either give it to him or not, which is their decision. Based on his behaviour when he announced that vacation, and his comments and actions since (such as speaking to you and the others about this, encouraging you to have a bad opinion of other FanForce members, entire chapters, and the GSAs) his full return gets more doubtful by the day, because of yours and others behaviour in this thread, as well as elsewhere.

    Quoting me twice does nothing but make it look like you think I have very littel in regards to knowledge in this matter, thinking I am whining, and really bringing you down to a level of pettiness which I never associate with any RSA/GSA.

    It looked to me like she?d made a mistake and just hit control C twice. I wasn?t going to read anything into it. If you do, it says more about your mental state of defensiveness than anything else.

    The fact is I have seen teh two-faced nature in this very thread about how its all Chris's responsibility to do what he wants and to come back etc.

    And yet he hasn?t come back to ask, has he, so how the heck do you know it?s ?two-faced??

    Did it ever occur to you that the name "YoungJediNiagara" is more than that?

    Yeah yeah. Guess what? We?re all people behind our user names, and Chris has caused a lot of grief. Just because it doesn?t affect you or happen in your back yard doesn?t mean it doesn?t happen, or that the people who he has affected to their detriment aren?t people too. If you?re going to ask people to walk a klick in his shoes, ask him to try ten metres in theirs.

    That theres a human being behind that name who has done more as RSA than anyother RSA I know of. He travelled across Canada to patch up anything that was cropping up, his domain of RSA is what 5 times the size of any others?

    Speaking of two-faced: he insisted that was a vacation, did you know that? He wasn?t coming all this way to ?patch things up?: he was taking advantage of the fact that he was in the neighbourhood. That was his story then: have a look at the various threads if you want proof. If he?s admitting the truth now (which we were all fully cognizant of then, because we aren?t idiots), good, honesty is always nice, even if it?s too little, too late. His domain as RSA wasn?t his alone, or have you forgotten CrazyMike and Ulmeteiz are Canada?s other RSAs? It?s also very telling that one of the foci of a situation he failed to patch up (the issues Victory Base had been having for two years with a problem member) is now here, posting on his behalf all her wordy and poorly written outrage at how he has been treated. Funny, considering she wouldn?t even allow him or Deb to mediate when they were in the same room as her. She writes a lot of stream of consciousness, but clams up the moment you are face to face with her. All he?s ever told her (or any of you) is what will get him the ?defense force? he thinks he needs. He?d bloody well log in and post that he?d like his job back.

    The way this whole senario was handled was handled very bad.

    Yes it was.By Chris. He was asked a couple of questions: lety me refresh your memory: ?Is it possible to move threads from one forum to another?? That was the first question he was asked by Rani Veko back at the end of June. (That was in a PM, BTW) All he had to do was read her PM and answer the *first* question: ?No, it is not possible, so your other question of a new general forum for BC and the Prairies combined is not feasible either.? He did not. Fu
  24. Mara_Jade_Fan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 6
    Having had personal contact, face to face, with Chris I know his statement that hes on leave/on vacation/taking time off is completely false.

    Really? Then please have Chris contact one of the GSAs and inform us when he plans to come back as an RSA. I haven't received any communication from him in nearly a month now and the last communication I had from him was a PM telling me he was taking an extended leave from the boards. Here is part of YJNs PM to me on 7/3, these are his own words:

    << I'm going to be taking an extended time off from being RSA, much like Jay (Elan_Rai) did ... I will be able to make a final desicion in the coming weeks regarding totally leaving. >>

    If you are aware that he has made a decision regarding totally leaving, or wants to resume his position as Canadian RSA, please have him contact us so we can repromote him.


    Now let the following be a warning to everyone posting in this thread that no further pointing of blame, or leveling of accusations of any sort towards any individual, or against an entire chapter will be allowed to continue any longer. May I remind you that the TOS states that "User agrees not to post material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, inaccurate..." etc. You have had all three GSAs respond in this thread and tell you that you have been misinformed. Continuing to post comments that we have told you are innacurate, and leveling blame of any sort against any individuals, will be considered a violation of the TOS and will be dealt with accordingly.

    Again, if YJN has made his decision regarding when/if he wishes to return to RSA duty, please have HIM inform us directly.

    Thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.


  25. AllieFox Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Like sands through the hourglass. . .




    Who's ready for "Revenge of the Sith?" :D
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