Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Feb 9, 2007.
EDIT: Stupid double post! I'll just edit this one out and leave it on the next page.
SPOILER WARNING - WE DISCUSS DEATHS OF CERTAIN CHARACTERS IN TV SHOWS AND MOVIES HERE. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!
The next character death we will discuss is of Otto Octavius/Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2.
Spider-Man and Doc Ock are fighting when Doc Ock finally overcomes the robotic arms and whatever else is going on in his mind that is controlling him. He destroys the energy generator and we see him sink slowly into the river with the lights on the robotic arms going out. To be honest I was frustrated that they killed off Doc Ock. He's such an iconic and great villain that he could be used in multiple films. Officially it looks like he died, although I like to hold out hope that he is brought back some how.
This was explained in the film.
It was symbolic for him to do it. He was the one who created it, so naturally he had to destroy it. He learned his lesson and was willing to sacrifice himself.
They didn't really kill off Doc Ooc. [hl=black]In Spidey 3 there's a Daily Bugle in the background of JJJ's office. The headline says, "Doc Ock Still At Large".[/hl]
Are you serious?
Chances him behind in Spidey Four...
Its called fabrication. I wouldn't put it past Jameson to make up a story for the sole purpose of making a profit.
But Doc Ock is just sinking in the water at the end with his eyes open. Very open ended.
[hl=black]Watch Spider-man 2 again. Robbie was trying to peice together the title for a headline after Ock got away (IIRC its the scene where the garabage man comes in with Spidey's costume after Pete dumps it in the trash). Hence Ock is still at large. The headline on the wall in 3 is old news, it was just a big moment for Jameson I guess and it went up on the wall. It was little more then a callback. Ock is very much dead and it will take a significant Retcon to worm their way out of this. Besides they film franchise doesn't have the longevity to recycle villains, especially when there is such a rich rogues gallery to choose from.[/hl]
The lights in the mechanical arms can be seen going out. Considering that they were pretty much hard wired into him, its a pretty good indication that he is as dead as a door knob.
Spiderfan is right. [hl=black]Memorable past headlines get put up on the wall. In DC comics, the Daily Planet keeps a big copy of SUPERMAN DEAD in one of the hallways, even though he's been alive again for years. It's no different from that really.[/hl] My history teacher had papers from the beginning and end of World War II on the wall, but that doesn't make that news not sixty years old.
And Yodas-evil-twin is right in that the lights going out are pretty much the book shutting on the good doctor.
I'm fine with that. Doc Ock played his role, and had his character arc. He is first a good man with perhaps a little too much ambition/arrogance (not letting Spidey shut off his little sun). It cost him his wife, his humanity, and his sanity. He descends into a mad quest to rebuild the reactor, but finally overcomes his obsession/the tentacles and redeems himself saving Peter and MJ. There doesn't need to be more than that. Leaving him alive wouldn't really leave much for him to do in future films, especially since you wouldn't be able to use him as a villain again without going against most everything that happened in his arc in Spider-man 2. And Doc Ock as Spider-man's Amazing Friend would strike me as... clumsy. Besides, Spider-man 3 has enough characters as it is.
Doctor Octopus does however remain one of the most visually compelling movie villains, and a fairly well-rounded and well-acted one. His and Spidey's fighting "styles" complement each other so well; the action in that movie is just stellar. He was great in one movie - and exactly that... one movie.
I could see where Sandman might show up in the next film. After all, doesn't actually die, he just blows away...
[hl=black]Now Sandman is a character who, by virtue of the story, had to live to blow away another day, in order to fulfill the point they were making about Peter with that plot. Sandman had to be alive for Peter to forgive, to show that he (Spidey) had gotten past his anger and laid down his thirst for vengeance.
I doubt I'd put him in a fourth if I were making it, but it depends - as always - on the story. Thomas Haden Church was pretty much perfect casting, incidentally.[/hl]
Ya know there's a good chance Doc Ock is still alive. He could of floated down the rather deep river and end up on a shore where he was revived by someone.
I love when people speculate about clearly irrelevant matters. I will conceded for a moment for the sake of argument that Otto Octavius may indeed have survived first the uncontained radiation of a small localized nuclear reaction then the drowning as both the test setup and then building's structure comes collapsing down on him.
But what I don't understand is why this is relevant. It makes no sense story wise or logistically. If he were to survive he would return to a world where the only two people who know he is not a criminal are Peter and MJ, his company would be gone, his wife is dead and he would immediately be going to jail. Within the context of the story were he to become a villain again it would entirely undermine his redemption at the end of SM2 which was one of the better parts of the film.
Second think about where the franchise is going. Sure Sony plans on making a few more, possibly milking their franchise rights until they run it into the ground (which at this point won't be much more then one or two movies IMO), but even at the pace they are chewing through villains why would they return to old material that has already been satisfactorily addressed when there are a slew of other stories to tell. Currently there is still the possibility of Carnage and Lizard, not to mention smaller possibilities of Manwolf, the Spider-slayers and earlier rumours of Mysterio, Black Cat and Vulture. Beyond that there are any number if interesting arcs that don't involve Doc Ock, a symbiont or a Goblin. I could name dozens of other stories that could lead to a potential film.
There is still fertile ground for drama without rehashing old plot lines that have been satisfied and tied up.