Wicca

What is your view on Wiccanism? I ask because I have a friend considering conversion. I want to see people's opinoins.

 

It's based on ancient pagan worship of nature. Stuff that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam replaced.

 

I've read that almost all of today's mainstream religions originated from Paganism and resemble it one way or another.

Fish, does your friend's thoughts of conversion trouble you? Personally, I see nothing wrong with Wiccans. It's a pretty cool religion, and I was once sort of into some of it. It's very intriguing.

 

Valyn: Not at all. I, personally, am considering it as Catholicism is getting a trifle repetitive. Not to insult anyone, but Christianity (to me) is like being under a very thick, warm, and itchy blanket. Half of every sermon is the same as last week's.

 

There is a thread on this from awhile ago...maybe I should up it.

Anyway I wouldn't exactly say that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam replaced paganism...they are very different although the emergence of the Abrahamic religions, mostly Christianity, did cause many Pagans to go into hiding.

 

Never got into catholicism. Don't really go for organized religion and someone telling me what my belief structure should be. If you still believe in christianity check out some of the other denominations. The differences in belief are like night and day.

And Islam is much closer to it's Judaic roots than Christianity. But remember that each one has it's own sects and denominations where the differences are night and day.

 

Oh yeah and by the way the title of this thread should be Wicca not Wiccanism. Wiccanism isn't a word

Ah well I can't find the old thread on Wicca, I wonder what happened to it.

 

Oh, I was just about to point that out!! Some mod wanna change it to "Wicca"?

 

You don't just have to be a Wiccan to be Pagan you know. There are many types of Pagans and forms of Paganism around at the moment.

Kit

 

Ahh the dark arts of Wicca...I'd strongly advise against it.

 

Why?

 

the dark arts of Wicca...

What, you mean like worshiping nature? Yes... that's so evil.

Valuing the life God (allegedly) created is just... horrible...

I love when Christians come and slander Wicca when Christianity itself is based almost entirely on pagan beliefs, rituals and practices that are as old as the hills... and rather kooky. I mean, c'mon, believing in a guy who was crucified on a cross, was resurrected had 12 apostles following him around and performed various magic tricks... I mean miracles? Didn't those Mithrians know anything?

...after all, Mithras was a derivative of the Vedic Hindu demigod Mitras... watcher of Heaven and Earth... according to legend more than 6000 years old.

Yeah... nature's just evil... and so is the blue fairy.

Wylding, don't you think it's time you focused more inward towards your own faults, rather than trying to conjure up fear and hatred of other people's beliefs?

Until the Christians do something decisive about getting their institutions to acknowledge and be held accountable for their gross failure to protect kids from pedophiles... they don't have a leg to stand on when judging others' morality. Unfortunately, right now all I see is the Church backpedaling by saying they'll do something to prevent it... they'll rationalize why they allowed it to happen in the first place... but they'll never dare admit they were wrong... not taking one ounce of responsibility.

 

I personally see nothing wrong about it.

I've read up on it and personally see nothing at all wrong with it. What can be so evil about trying to get in touch with nature? I've never judged a person by there Religious Background, and I never will.

 

Snowdog, Snowdog, Snowdog. You started a lovely reply based on the topic at hand and quickly went down a Christian rant again. Tsk.
Settle down and have another donut.

 

I don't think that either a religious group or the religion they're associated with can be held accountable for the actions of its individual members. Sure, the danger should be removed from the Church, but that doesn't make it the Church's fault that any danger actually transpired. People make their own choices.

 

I believe this general subject area provides the true explanation for why the Jewish people are hated. Before their religion became prominent, all of these different types of pagan practices, which usually included human sacrifice, were prevalent. The Jewish religion firmly opposed this practice, along with many others that are common to paganism, and its basic principles have extended through Christianity and Islam to make many pagan practices unacceptable in much of the world. It is no coincidence in my mind that Hitler was involved in resurrecting the pre-Christian pagan Germanic traditions, and that he also carrid out his horrific massacre of the Jews.

As for "Wicca" specifically, I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that it's basically a "cleaned up" version of what has always been known as witchcraft, which attempts to make these practices seem more acceptable to the modern world, and obscures some of the elements that might appear "distasteful" to the larger public and/or potential initiates.

Having had conversations with someone who was somewhat involved in it, their basic explanation was "well, we don't do any of the bad stuff- only the nice stuff"- although she added that the bad stuff is still there at their disposal if they get pissed... It's essentially about "summoning the powers of the Earth", to be used at your disposal, to whatever end you're seeking.

In other words, what Wylding said.

 

Before their religion became prominent, all of these different types of pagan practices, which usually included human sacrifice, were prevalent.

PPOR. A lot of Pagan practices did not include human sacrafices...I don't know about all of them but I know a bunch were perfectly peaceful.

As for "Wicca" specifically, I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that it's basically a "cleaned up" version of what has always been known as witchcraft, which attempts to make these practices seem more acceptable to the modern world, and obscures some of the elements that might appear "distasteful" to the larger public and/or potential initiates.

Uhm first off please do not put Wicca in quotes. Secondly, there really isn't anything to be cleaned up about WitchCraft. Oh yes and Wicca is not the same as WitchCraft. Wicca is essentially an earth-nature-based religion which typically believes in a God and a Goddess although most that I know believe that they are just male and female aspects of one genderless creator. However, it is hard to relate to a genderless, present-everywhere, life-force so they chose to seperate it into a male and female, God and Goddess, to make it easier to relate to It. They follow the Wiccan rede the short version of which is: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt." WitchCraft is not only associated with Wicca, and one can be Wiccan without being a Witch and vice versa. WitchCraft is essentially elaborate prayer, often using elements of nature which are believed to have properties that would help with one's prayer.

although she added that the bad stuff is still there at their disposal if they get pissed...

Now that can't be right...considering that the Wiccan Rede specifically forbids Wiccans from harming anyone. That's why those of the Church of Satan make fun of Wiccans(according to www.religioustolerance.org): because Wiccans only practice "White Magick" whereas Satanists do not have so much of a problem with revenege.

 

PPOR. A lot of Pagan practices did not include human sacrafices...I don't know about all of them but I know a bunch were perfectly peaceful.

If you look at most ancient cultures that predate the Israelites' exodus from Egypt, not just in the Middle East but throughout the world, there is almost always evidence of human sacrifice- although seemingly at intermittant periods, and not on an ongoing basis. The Aztecs are one clear example, and unless I'm mistaken, I'm fairly certain that scholars believe human sacrifice may have taken place at Stonehenge.

In the Middle East, human sacrifice was prevalent among the followers of Baal and Molech, two gods who were popular with the Babylonians and others in the region. They are referred to in the Old Testament as "making their children pass through the fire", which means they were sacrificing their firstborn children by burning them.

WitchCraft is not only associated with Wicca, and one can be Wiccan without being a Witch and vice versa. WitchCraft is essentially elaborate prayer, often using elements of nature which are believed to have properties that would help with one's prayer.

As I said, I'm not an expert, nor do I particularly want to be. I would only offer the suggestion that if nature itself has no inherent spiritual properties, and yet these individuals find some degree of success, then the power they are summoning comes from an altogether different source. The substitution of the word "prayer" for "spells" or "incantations" suggests to me that they feel the need to "clean up" their image.

Now that can't be right...considering that the Wiccan Rede specifically forbids Wiccans from harming anyone. That's why those of the Church of Satan make fun of Wiccans(according to www.religioustolerance.org): because Wiccans only practice "White Magick" whereas Satanists do not have so much of a problem with revenege.

As I said, I believe she was only tangentially involved, but going by the classifications you've used, I guess that would place her in the realm of witchcraft, and not simply Wicca. In any event, your description seems to support my understanding- that Wicca is a kind of "paganism lite". You yourself have made the connection to Satanism, so I won't go any further with it. I only hope for your sake that you don't get sucked into anything you don't want to be involved with.

 

As I gotten deeper in my own faith, I can safely say that much in Judaism came from pagans, even Wicca.

 

I would only offer the suggestion that if nature itself has no inherent spiritual properties, and yet these individuals find some degree of success, then the power they are summoning comes from an altogether different source.

Pagans believe that nature does have inherent spiritual properties in that God is a part of nature.

The substitution of the word "prayer" for "spells" or "incantations" suggests to me that they feel the need to "clean up" their image.

I think you misunderstood me. I was only substituting the word prayer for spells in order to make sure you understood what a spell really was. Wiccans use the words spells and incantations when speaking among themselves, however, when amongst others, they sometimes use the term prayer to explain what a spell is. This is because a lot of people have misconceptions as to what a spell is however almost everyone is familiar with the term prayer.

In any event, your description seems to support my understanding- that Wicca is a kind of "paganism lite".

Please clarify, I don't understand what you mean by "paganism lite".

You yourself have made the connection to Satanism, so I won't go any further with it. I only hope for your sake that you don't get sucked into anything you don't want to be involved with.

Since I am not a member of an organized religion, nor do I want to be, it would be rather difficult for me to "get sucked into anything". As for making a connection to Satanism, uhm all I said was that Satanists have an opinion(and a negative one at that) about Wiccans. It's no different than if I said a lot of Christians have misconceptions about Wicca such as that they cast spells to harm people.[not saying I think this, although I do know a lot of people who fit the bill]


On another note it does seem like a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about Paganism and Wicca, I would suggest paying a visit to www.religioustolerance.org as they have a nice description about a variety of religions.

Page on Wicca:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

Page on The Church of Satan(since I think there are some misconceptions about that too...no I'm not saying it's particularily related to Wicca):
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm

 

I'm pretty sure Wicca is considerably newer than Judaism.

 

Yes Wicca is newer than Judaism.

Oh and an informative page on Neo-paganism is here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/neo_paga.htm

 

In my opinion, nothing's really wrong about Wicca. Sure, they have a Book of Shadows, but they're not trying to become all-powerful Sith Lord-like sorcerers.

 

Wiccans do not believe in Satan. Nor are they Satanists.

In fact they can't be Satanists. To be Satanists they must believe in the Christian concepts of heaven, hell and the Devil. As they do not, they therefore cannot be Satanists (as they do not believe in the concept). Therefore, using this logic Satanists must also be Christians because they believe in the elements of Christianity such as God, the Devil and Christ.

So can you (ie. readers of the thread who feel that Wiccans are evil and wrong) justify your statements and beliefs without restorting to personal attacks and make them logical?

Can you justify your arguement with logical statements from reliable sources ?

I'll take the Bible as a reliable source, but I'd prefer other sources. However, if they are pro-Christian Propaganda I won't deem them reliable.

If you come up with valid points then I will honestly consider them.

Kit

Edited with respect to Wylding.

 

Kit show me where I said anything of the sort regarding the dark arts?

Did I say Wiccan's believed in Christ, the devil, or anything else? Hmm...checks thread. Nope I didn't. I just said I'd strongly advise against it. As this thread wasn't really intended to get into Wicca vs. Christianity, I won't go there. Don't try and bait me Kit it's unbecoming. ie. Putting words in my mouth.

Someone asked for an opinion I gave it. I respect your right to your opinion Kit but I still think you're dead wrong on this one.