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Widescreen or Fullscreen?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by JediTrilobite, Oct 15, 2003.

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  1. Siphonophore

    Siphonophore Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Widescreen. Unless it's an old classic, and fullscreen's the only option.

    The crazy thing about Finding Nemo is that the fullscreeen[/] version actually shows more, while the widescreen has footage cut from the top and bottom of the screen. This is the only movie that I can think of where it's the opposite of the typical widescreen= more picture, and fullscreen= cut/cropped footage.

    The Pixar guys talk briefly about this at the beginning of one of the discs. I did scene comparisons between the two formats, and sure enough, the widescreen version of the movie is fully visible and intact in the fullscreen version and the space that used to be black bars is now occupied by footage that was never seen in the widescreen version.

    I don't know if it's because the movie was made on 4:3 monitors and they cropped the top and bottom for the theaters, or if they added the top and bottom material for the full screen version.


     
  2. Calantha

    Calantha Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    I didn't know Finding Nemo was that way. I read somewhere that James Cameron shoots his movies in fullscreen, and then cuts off the top and bottom for the widesceren realease. So the widescreen Titanic is actually the cropped version.

    Myself, I like watching movies the way they were shot - so usually widesceen, with the exception of classics and Finding Nemo, too, apparently (I have to go watch that again now!)

    And Star Wars - I have actually never seen the OT in widescreen. I've only seen the fullscreen VHS, and I missed the theatre re-release. So I'm really looking forward to the DVDs - there's a whole 1/3 I haven't seen yet!
     
  3. Siphonophore

    Siphonophore Chosen One star 4

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    Nov 13, 2003
    Then you're in for a real treat in September. You'll see characters in the cantina and Jabba's palace you may have only seen in pictures.

    One really bad widescreen to fullscreen editing that I've seen is in Westworld. On the tram when some of the vacationers are travelling to their destination, one passenger sitting next to another is completely omitted while the other talks, and occasionally cuts over to just the other passenger while the conversation continues.
    It's always preferable to watch the expressions on everyone's faces during dialogue.

    I read somewhere that James Cameron shoots his movies in fullscreen, and then cuts off the top and bottom for the widesceren realease.

    That reminds me....
    That's a bit like Kubrick. He was thinking about the home presentation (fullscreen) when he was filming, would keep the OAR for the theaters, and then crop the sides for home release. By thinking about this during the filming process he was able to get a fullscreen version that didn't eliminate important subject matter. Early releases of his DVDs were more fullscreen, and more recent editions have been OAR.
     
  4. JediTrilobite

    JediTrilobite Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 1999
    Yeah, I can't wait to see that stuff that I missed.
     
  5. itchytasty79

    itchytasty79 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Oct 2, 2001
    Hmmm... guess I'll have to go watch Finding Nemo now. I've been wanting to see it. I'll see if I can borrow it from my sister.
     
  6. _dArTh_SoLo

    _dArTh_SoLo Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 11, 2002
    I hate fullscreen. It is the devil! I hate it!

     
  7. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    Cameron shoots his films in "Super 35" millimeter format, which is -- essentially -- croppable to *either* 2.35:1 or 1.85:1 ratia, and downconvertable to "full-frame" format if, Ghu Forbid, the market dictates. For all intents and purposes, he's working in the hard Academy Panavision format (all of his films are in 'Scope), but the option exists nonetheless.

    Fortunately, Cameron also has the artistic horse-sense to rail against the ever-growing ranks of the OAR eviscerati every chance he gets.
     
  8. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 17, 2004
    I think Dick Tracy was like that, too. I think you see more in the video version than in the theaters because it was shot on Super35 or something.

    L8r
     
  9. darthtenbiscuits

    darthtenbiscuits Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Sep 7, 2001
    I prefer widescreen if it is something that is shot to be viewed that way.
     
  10. Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29

    Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 1, 2003
    I've seen the widescreen and fullscreen versions of Fellowship of the ring, The two towers, and Apollo 13. I must say I really didn't notice anything more in the widescreen version that wasn't visible in the fullscreen. In fact, for Fellowship and Two towers, I never noticed anything. For Apollo 13 I only noticed another screen on the side of mission control during the crew's broadcast. Yeah, that was worth having black bars for the entire movie. [face_plain] Maybe you do miss a little in the sides in fullscreen, but to me its worth it to have the picture take up the full screen.
     
  11. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    :: Laughs self sick ::

    Clicky here.

    And here.

    And, oh...here.

    [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_01p.jpg] [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_01l.jpg]

    [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_02p.jpg] [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_02l.jpg]

    [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_06p.jpg] [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_06l.jpg]

    [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_12p.jpg] [image=http://www.widescreen.org/examples/lord_rings_fellowship/fotr_12l.jpg]


    You get what you deserve, if fail to educate yourself. Make the most of it.
     
  12. RogueScribner

    RogueScribner Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Another problem with many full screen releases are those fake pans to make up for the loss of picture, when you could have seen everything sans pan in the wide screen version. Many directors compose their shots specifically for wide screen and you lose out on little details and nuances when a good third or more of the picture is cropped.

    L8r
     
  13. Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29

    Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 1, 2003
    I didn't say there weren't any differences, obviously there are going to be. I said there weren't any that stood out and were actually noticeable to me. At no point watching the widescreen version did I think "Hm, I never noticed that in the fullscreen version.".
     
  14. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Regardless, it is still a quantifiable form of bowdlerization bordering upon corporate artistic censorship, one opposed by as many major filmmakers as one could care to name.

    Or, put another way:

    Would you willingly drive a car down a street with 40 to 50 percent of the windows painted over?

    Knowing full well that you're blinding yourself to the world going on right outside those windows (and endangering folks on three sides, to boot)?

    And would you ever think, "Hm, I'm never going to even notice any of those things going on outside those windows?"
     
  15. darth-dom

    darth-dom Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2000
    Widescreen every time.

    My ideal is a widescreen image on a large 4:3 TV. That way you don't have a small picture, nor do programmes transmitted in 4:3 get distorted too fill the left & right.

    I remember when Channel 4 (UK) transmitted Enterprise in what they called 'widescreen' - it turned out to be the regular 4:3 format with black stripes pasted over the image - what's that all about?!? I checked another normal recording, and the widescreen version was actually missing the top / bottom of the picture. Were the C4 people trying to be snazzy or something?
     
  16. Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29

    Obi-Wan_Skywalker_29 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Well its a good thing life isn't dependent on having widescreen movies. If it wasn't for black bars, I would happily take widescreen. But seeing insignificant objects or people off to the side just isn't worth having annoying black bars if I can get fullscreen instead. Fullscreen doesn't alter the plot of a movie.
     
  17. Joe1138

    Joe1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 22, 2003
    Fullscreen doesn't alter the plot of a movie.

    No, but it can alter the tone of a film. The choice made by a filmmaker to shoot in widescreen is a calculated one meant to convey something more to the audience than can be achieved through shooting in the flat or standard ratios. If the only thing you're concerned about is grasping the plot of a film, then read a synopsis of said flick; if you want to watch and experience a film, then viewing them in their original aspect ratio intended by the filmmakers is the only way to go. But hey, if you really want to re-purchase your entire full-screen DVD collection once widescreen and HDTV sets really hit the mainstream, then be my guest.

    EDIT; And they're not black bars damnit, it's unused area.
     
  18. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000

    Well its a good thing life isn't dependent on having widescreen movies. If it wasn't for black bars, I would happily take widescreen. But seeing insignificant objects or people off to the side just isn't worth having annoying black bars if I can get fullscreen instead. Fullscreen doesn't alter the plot of a movie.[/b][hr][/blockquote]To wit (emphasis in [b]boldface[/b]):

    [blockquote][color=purple]Pan and scan is a method of adjusting widescreen film images so that they can be shown within the proportions of an ordinary video screen.

    Until High Definition Television came onto the scene, television images had approximately the shape of a frame of 35mm film: a width 1.33 times the height (in the industry, referred to as "4:3 aspect ratio"). By contrast, a film image typically has a more rectangular final projected image with an aspect ratio greater than 16:9, often as wide as 2.35 times the height of the image. To broadcast a widescreen film on television, or create a videotape or DVD master it is necessary to make a new version from the original filmed elements. One way to do so is to make a "letterbox" print, which preserves the original theatrical aspect ratio, but produces an image with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. Another way to turn the 16:9 aspect ratio film into a 4:3 aspect ratio television image is to "pan and scan" the negative.

    During the "pan and scan" process, an operator selects the parts of the original filmed composition that seem to be significant and makes sure they are copied?"scanning." When the important action shifts to a new position in the frame, the operator moves the scanner to follow it, creating the effect of a pan shot.

    This method allows the maximum resolution of the image, since it uses all the available video scan lines. It also gives a full-screen image on analog television. [b]But it can also severely alter compositions and therefore dramatic effects?for instance, in the film [i]Jaws[/i], the shark can be seen approaching for several seconds more in the widescreen version than in the pan and scan version. In some cases, the results can also be a bit jarring, especially in shots with significant detail on both sides of the frame: the operator must either go to a two-shot format (alternating between closeups in what was previously a single image), lose some of the image, or make several abrupt pans. In cases where a film director has carefully designed his composition for optimal viewing on a wide theatrical screen, these changes may be seen as changing that director's vision to an unacceptable extent.[/b][/color][/blockquote]Or, get thyself a widescreen television. For the nonce.

    In the coming years, once everything switches over to HD, those of us with anamorphic widescreen DVD libraries will be covering our ears from having beheld the heaven-rending shrieks and wails of those who went for the okeydoke and were duped by the studios into purchasing only "full-frame" discs.

    It's not a sound I'm particularly looking forward to hearing.
     
  19. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Here's the deal. Film is art. I once heard Martin Scorsese say, "Picture The Last Supper, only you're missing the five outside disciples. Does it make a difference?"

    The answer is obviously, "Heck, yes."

    Great example I just watched this morning. The Great Escape. That movie would be so horrid in full screen. That huge ensemble, so necessary for understanding the, er, "Great" part of the escape would be absolutly raped by pan and scan.

    And don't even talk to me about that gorgeous countryside . . .

    And the motorcycle chase in fullscreen? Don't make me laugh.

    And that beautiful evocative shot after the massacre with the trucks parked on the hill and the Gestapo agents in shadow on the side of the screen. That shot alone is worth watching the film in widescreen.

    End rant.
     
  20. darthtenbiscuits

    darthtenbiscuits Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Sep 7, 2001
    The problem is the television. Televisions should be widescreen.

    I look at it like this...

    Since filmmaking is an art, it's like a painting. You wouldn't buy a painting and then cut the sides off so it fits the frame would you? No, you would buy a frame that fits the painting.

    Whenever I get some cash to put together a decent home theatre, I plan on buying a digital projector for watching movies and then having just a standard 4:3 television for watching sports and satalite TV.
     
  21. jedidc

    jedidc Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 24, 2002
    Can't imagine having to watch some of the big action mvies on anything but widescreen.
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Even sports benefit from a wider screen area- football and hockey in particular, where you can see more of the field/ice at once.
     
  23. darthtenbiscuits

    darthtenbiscuits Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Sep 7, 2001
    Even sports benefit from a wider screen area- football and hockey in particular, where you can see more of the field/ice at once.

    That's true. I had forgotten about sports being broadcast in HD now. I Guess I'll just hook up an HD reciever up to my digital projector and watch sports on that.
     
  24. General Cargin

    General Cargin Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 15, 1999
    Just for laughs one night, I sat and started watching The Great Escape on television one night (with a pan and scan broadcast no less). I didn't last half an hour before I walked to the dvd collection and put the widescreen special edition copy in the player and started watching. The panorama and the character interplay is half the experience of most films.
     
  25. JediTrilobite

    JediTrilobite Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Nov 17, 1999
    Since filmmaking is an art, it's like a painting. You wouldn't buy a painting and then cut the sides off so it fits the frame would you? No, you would buy a frame that fits the painting.


    There are some who don't see it as art, and just want to watch the main story and focus of the movie.
     
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