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Will Anakin Kill Padme?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Quoru, Dec 7, 2002.

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  1. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    Well, if Luke is stripped from her as she dies but she locks eyes for a cinematic moment with Padmé, I'm cool with it. Suspension of disbelief.
     
  2. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Let me get this straight. You've seen everything the Force has been able to do in the context of this movie yet its too hard to imagine a baby using it? We see a lil boy able to fly a podracer with know knowledge of the Force and an uncanny ability to fix electronics. Thats cool but a baby remembering an image of her REAL mother (already classified in ROTJ) is just crazy?

    C'mon now.
     
  3. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 11, 2004
    "Just...images, really. Feelings"

    "She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad."

    Thats a lot to get from a quick look at your mother.

    i dont disagree about your points about anakin and the pods- but he is suppose to be the most powerfull of jedi's. Leia doesnt really have to many jedi skills...

    I think leia remembering her mom through the force will be just as bad as greedo shooting first.
     
  4. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    Both Luke and Leia have the Force. That is established and all we need so long as Luke and Padmé never physically lock eyes. I can totally accept that.
     
  5. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 28, 2002
    i dont disagree about your points about anakin and the pods- but he is suppose to be the most powerfull of jedi's. Leia doesnt really have to many jedi skills...

    First of all, Anakin was able to do those things without training.

    2nd - The Force is strong in the entire Skywalker family. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Luke and Leia are immensely powerful in the Force through blood line alone. Consider that they don't even have a real grandfather.

    3rd - Leia doesn't have any Force skills? She obviously can sense people's presences. She did it with Luke w/o any training on Bespin. She obviously has a determined will and focus (gotten from both parents). Just because she doesn't fight with a sabre doesn't mean she lacks skills.
     
  6. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    seriously though- you dont find it kinda hooky that at less than a month old- she's going to remember her mother? i find it a little to far fetched...

    but, how will you feel if padme doesnt die?
     
  7. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 28, 2002
    If Padme doesn't die than the entire OT you're left wondering WTF happen to her. With no changes to the OT one never knows what happens at all. The only mention would be when Luke asks Leia and then the audience would be wondering how did she die?

    One of the most central characters to the entire saga just forgotten about and not mentioned again? Crazy.
     
  8. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 11, 2004
    i agree with that too. Thats why i think there needs to be an episode 3.5. Set about 3 or 4 years after episode III. To bad GL didnt plan ahead :c)
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Elora-Dan (sp) from Willow was very aware of her surroundings, and she wasn't that old at the time. Anyway, like Sape said, it's all a matter of suspension of disbelief. It's fantasy, not real life.
     
  10. Invictus_Sol

    Invictus_Sol Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2003
    The other thing is that no one is saying that baby Leia literally remembers that exact moment. It's really simple: Leia and Padme have a "moment", this establishes what is called a "connection". Later on in life, perhaps as a little girl, Leia thinks hard about her mother and images and feelings from that time come flooding back (the conduit being the Force). Leia does not need to be trained to do this. It would be a natural result of the fact that she is the daughter of one of the most powerful Jedi ever. What is so difficult to figure out with this?
     
  11. Child_of_the_70s

    Child_of_the_70s Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jul 9, 2003
    Anyway, like Sape said, it's all a matter of suspension of disbelief. It's fantasy, not real life.

    Sadly, this admonition often goes unheeded 'round these parts.

    I'm in agreement that it's not a big plot hole if Padme dies while Leia's an infant. Like Sinister said, this is a fantasy movie. A diminutive green imp moves ships with his mind. I think we can accept some force-based explanation for Leia's memories (although it would be nice to explain why Luke doesn't have these memories)

    The juicy stuff is the manner in which Padme dies and the ramifications for Anakin's character. It will be one of the events that keeps people on these boards long after the release of the movie.

    In fact, I envision a "mock trial" thread. Any lawyers here who want to defend Anakin? Modified version of the "Twinkie defense?"
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Winston: "Tell him about the Twinkee."

    Peter: "What about the Twinkee?"



    ;)
     
  13. DarthIntimidus

    DarthIntimidus Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2003
    If Padme doesn't die than the entire OT you're left wondering WTF happen to her. With no changes to the OT one never knows what happens at all. The only mention would be when Luke asks Leia and then the audience would be wondering how did she die?

    One of the most central characters to the entire saga just forgotten about and not mentioned again? Crazy.


    Yeah. You'd almost think they'd have to have another movie (or three) to explain exactly what happened.

    :eek:
     
  14. BaronFel88

    BaronFel88 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    As some claim, she could be on Alderaan and be one of the "million voices crying out."
     
  15. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Right. Talk about a cop-out. You'd at least have Leia asking "where's mom" when she gets back with the rebels.

    But again, that slaps in the face of "she died when I was young."

     
  16. Funker_Pete

    Funker_Pete Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2003
    She's gonna die. In Episode III. She's gonna be dead dead dead.

    She's gonna kick the bucket, assume room temperature, take a dirt nap and sleep with the angels.

    She's gonna die.

    (Oh, and Anakin is going to be the one responsible)
     
  17. DANA28

    DANA28 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2002
    It's all a matter of suspension of disbelief. It's fantasy, not real life. Exactly!!!!!!!!!


    So, Leia being force sensitive can remember her mommy even though she saw her for a few minutes.
     
  18. dehrian

    dehrian Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    [blockquote]Both Luke and Leia have the Force. That is established and all we need so long as Luke and Padmé never physically lock eyes. I can totally accept that. [/blockquote]

    I think it all comes down to suspension of disbelief, and is an individual matter. Some people can accept that Leia would remember her from a few moments, others cannot; some can believe that Leia was referring to only a few moments to begin with, others do not.

    I have two problems with this:

    1. LUKE: "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her."

    This line is a big problem for me, because it infers that Leia spent more time with her than Luke. I don't think that five minutes is quite enough, frankly. Their entire exchange intimates that Leia spent considerably more time with Padme than Luke. For me, minutes isn't enough.

    2. Leia remembering through the Force. Don't buy it. The Force could have something to do with it, sure, I'll grant that, but in the structure of the six film saga, it doesn't work. Leia doesn't even begin to become aware of her Force powers till ESB. Luke is familiar with them from a very young age, and is experienced with them. Leia is not. Yet the less experienced one of the two can remember their mother through the Force based on only minutes together while the one with the more natural ability has absolutely no recollection. It's lazy storytelling and I don't buy it.
     
  19. hanbaby

    hanbaby Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 18, 2004
    You think--but maybe Vader doesn't think that.

    You yourself have said that Vader's life was a life worse than death. Please, don't tell me that Vader doesnt regret what he's become. A machine and a slave to a cruel master. The only thing that can keep him enslaved is the darkness, which is all the negative emotions balled up into one big black hole of hatred. He wants power, he wants to kill Sidious he wants to rule the galaxy that's what keeps him going. His complete lack of respect for others lives shows how much he values his own.

    He also says "we can rule the galaxy together as father and son". He's going to have a hard time ruling the galaxy with Luke if Luke is dead.

    He only says that after Bespin. Up till that point he's trying to kill the kid, he see's him as a threat. He knows Sidious wants Luke, which means he wants to replace Vader. It's not out of love of Luke, it's out of the wish to outmanuever Sidious. In fact after he learns that he has a daughter he then tries to bargain with her life to convince Luke to give in to Sidious. He never tries to save his daughter or gives her a 2nd thought. Lukes only value at that point is a weapon against Sidious.

    Obviously Vader finds the Dark Side more appealing than the Light Side. He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong by turning Luke to the Dark Side. He isn't thinking, "I'm going to turn this kid to the Dark Side so I can tie him up to a whipping pole and beat him up like the Tuskens did to my mother".

    Oh my now we are pushing it. Anakin knows the difference between right and wrong. He knew killing the tusken children was wrong, he knows killing the younglings is wrong and Padme and Luke. He doesn't care. He's evil, he enjoys his evilness, he enjoys killing. Turning to the darkside means you are corrupted, you embrace negative emotions and use them
    to empower yourself. Negative emotions like hatred, jealousy, anger, lust, fear. Living with those feelings and not knowing happiness or love for the rest of your life is worse than death in my book.

    Oh, pfffttt...Where's your sympathy for Shmi? She got tortured to death. Can you honestly say that if you came across a group of people who tortured your mother to death and you had a weapon, you wouldn't take them out? I can't. No one had better mess with my mother if I've got a weapon.

    Well lets hope no one with children messes with your mother then.

    Oh, wait, I'm sorry, obviously I missed the part of the movie where Anakin goes to the Tusken Child Care Center and dismembers children for kicks, since that's what he did every Saturday morning during AOTC.

    Well kind of. He went to their tent and sliced them into pieces like he did their parents. He was wielding a light saber and killed them. I suppose you are going to say it was because he was afriad they were going to kick his a**? How do you think he did it? Humanely I'm sure.

    Let's see, first off, when did you get your advanced copy of the Episode III script? Secondly, where did you take that "Mind Reading 101" class that makes you so adept at "predicting" that "most of the audience" will hate Anakin as much as you do?

    Probably at the same place you did. I didn't say anything about hate, I said see him as the monster that killed the younglings and Padme. You yourself have said that if he kills Padme that you would lose all sympathy for him, and that he'd be nothing but a wife beater.
     
  20. Funker_Pete

    Funker_Pete Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2003
    We don't know the extent of Leia's experience with the Force. For all we know, her expanded intuition is what makes her a good Senator and allowed her to avoid capture by the Empire for years. All without her ever knowing.

    Just like Luke was a natural pilot and mechanic thanks to the Force. (just like their daddy, who could fly pods when he was nine. With no training in how to use the Force.)

    As far as I can tell, the Force is always there, whether you knowingly use it or not. It may work through you without your ever knowing.
     
  21. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    If leia remembers being born and a few moments afterwards, how come luke doesnt remember either? If leia can remember 2 seconds after her birth- how come luke doesnt remember coming down the birth canal or right after it? How come he doesnt remember OB1 or anyone else present?
    It has to be consistant, and i dont think it will be if leia remembers her birth and luke doesnt...
     
  22. Funker_Pete

    Funker_Pete Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 4, 2003
    Well, Luke can bullseye womprats in his T-64. Leia can't.

    Leia can remember a vague, blurry face. Luke can't.

    It's like saying there's a difference between Telekinesis and Clairvoyance. :p

    (ETA: By this I mean that there is a difference between the two, but they're both of the paranormal persuasion and may have roots in the same cause.)
     
  23. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    but in your arguments, your saying its "the force" that lets leia remember her mom and other images around her. you would think luke could use the force to remember images of his birth?
     
  24. dr_funkenstein

    dr_funkenstein Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Telekinesis:
    The movement of objects by scientifically inexplicable means, as by the exercise of an occult power.

    Clairvoyance:
    1. The supposed power to see objects or events that cannot be perceived by the senses.
    2. Acute intuitive insight or perceptiveness.
     
  25. Funker_Pete

    Funker_Pete Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 4, 2003
    Exactly, Funk... they're different manifestations of a similar level of paranormal activity.

    but in your arguments, your saying its "the force" that lets leia remember her mom and other images around her. you would think luke could use the force to remember images of his birth?

    It's not unlikely that some Jedi are better suited to the physical side of Force use and some are better suited to the mental aspects.

    Maybe Luke could bring images of his mother to mind if he tried really hard. Remember how confused he was when he had the vision of Cloud City? It's not a side of the Force that he's accustomed to, but it's not entirely impossible for him to use.
     
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