Will Anakin Kill Padme?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Quoru, Dec 7, 2002.

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  1. ilovemusic Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2004
    I would just like to clarify that vader wasnt out to kill luke....

    he wanted him to turn to the darkside of the force....
    thats what vader and the emperor talked out in esb...

    if vaders goal was to kill luke he would have done it... luke was clearly defeated in esb....
  2. Leonard_Shelby Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 6
    Oh, I agree. Vader had absolutely no intentions of killing Luke...as Luke so-readily points-out in ROTJ. Just as he will have no intentions of killing Padme. Unfortunately, he will be unlucky in that scenario. :(
  3. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    I would just like to clarify that vader wasnt out to kill luke....

    he wanted him to turn to the darkside of the force....
    thats what vader and the emperor talked out in esb...


    Yeah, and since Luke wasn?t exactly cooperating with old Vader, Vader told Luke that he would have to meet his destiny. Translation: death.

    if vaders goal was to kill luke he would have done it... luke was clearly defeated in esb....

    If Luke didn?t let go of the railing, he would?ve been mince meat.

    Oh, I agree. Vader had absolutely no intentions of killing Luke...as Luke so-readily points-out in ROTJ. Just as he will have no intentions of killing Padme. Unfortunately, he will be unlucky in that scenario.

    By the time of ROTJ, I believe Vader didn't want to kill Luke. His conscience and Luke's words were finally getting through with him. However, in ESB, I think his goal was to kill Luke if Luke didn't follow what Vader believed to be his destiny.





  4. dr_funkenstein Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, and since Luke wasn?t exactly cooperating with old Vader, Vader told Luke that he would have to meet his destiny. Translation: death.

    Yes... although it's quite clear to anyone who watches the film that Vader is trying to make Luke angry any way he can. First he tries to make Luke angry by attacking him, but when Luke hides, he tries another tactic and makes him angry by threatening Leia. Why does he want Luke to be angry? So he'll fall to the dark side. Not to kill him.

    If Luke didn?t let go of the railing, he would?ve been mince meat.

    Erm... have you forgotten Vader's outstretched hand? He would have been pulled back by his father, and he would have joined him. He chose death instead (or what he thought would be death).

    By the time of ROTJ, I believe Vader didn't want to kill Luke. His conscience and Luke's words were finally getting through with him. However, in ESB, I think his goal was to kill Luke if Luke didn't follow what Vader believed to be his destiny.

    Ok, again you've forgotten the details. Remember this line?

    "Join me, and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son!"

    His intention was for Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor, not to kill Luke. Besides, the whole carbon-freezing thing was just a trial-run, to see whether it would work. If it did, then Vader was going to use it on Luke to take him back to the Emperor. It nearly did work, too...
  5. Wilhelm-Scream Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2004
    star 3
    Is this the Revenge of the Sith forum or the Empire Strikes Back forum? I get confused.
  6. dr_funkenstein Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2002
    star 4
    Is this the Revenge of the Sith forum or the Empire Strikes Back forum? I get confused.

    Rod, it's easy to understand how you can get confused. But let me help you understand.

    The question of whether or not Vader was out to kill Luke has a great deal of bearing on the question of whether Anakin will kill Padme.

    See, both Luke and Padme are family members of Anakin's. Does that clear up the confusion for you?
  7. Wilhelm-Scream Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2004
    star 3
    Yeah.Thanks.


    Except for the fact that we've already seen shots from Padme's funeral.(proving that she dies in ROTS)
    And that,judging from GL's style and his adherence to the tropes from ancient mythologies,...I Really don't think he'll have Obi Wan accidentally kill her,he COULD have Palpatine kill her,but you'd get a whole Hell of a lot more drama from Anakin killing her and "drama" is what George is going for.

    ............JOHNNY
  8. dr_funkenstein Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2002
    star 4
    Except for the fact that we've already seen shots from Padme's funeral.(proving that she dies in ROTS)
    And that,judging from GL's style and his adherence to the tropes from ancient mythologies,...I Really don't think he'll have Obi Wan accidentally kill her,he COULD have Palpatine kill her,but you'd get a whole Hell of a lot more drama from Anakin killing her and "drama" is what George is going for.


    Agreed, however while we might share the same opinion, I will always fight for the right of a thread to argue the pros and cons of any given point of view. Just because we happen to believe that that's how it will pan out doesn't mean others shouldn't have the right to suggest alternate theories.
  9. Wilhelm-Scream Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2004
    star 3
    Yeah,I can see that.I've often said that,spoilers or not,everyone's going to get SOME kind of surprise from the last movie.

    'Cause Lucas(because of computer technology)is free to change things right up until the night before the official release and ALSO,He's already proven that he's willing to be dishonest to hide plot points from fans(with the "Blue Harvest" thing and the way that he told David Prowse to say,"Obi Wan killed your father." and then had James Earl Jones put,"I am your Father" on the tape.
  10. Crashlanding77 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Anakin attacking Padme demonstrates how far he has gone and ties into the regret in his voice, come ROTJ time

    Exactly, attacking Padme sets up the Vader we know in the OT.


    Yeah, and since Luke wasn?t exactly cooperating with old Vader, Vader told Luke that he would have to meet his destiny. Translation: death.

    This was the impression I have always had about Vader's thinking with Luke. Vader's desired option was always having Luke join him and overthrowing the Emperor. But after Luke kept resisting I think he genuinly tried to kill him, but by that point in ROTJ Luke had gotten strong enough to defeat Vader. But I can also see where someone would think Vader was still holding back.

    Still I think question of wether Vader was trying to kill Luke or just defeat him isn't too relevant to the Padme situation because in either case Vader is perfectly willing to visit greivious bodily harm on his son Luke (he does cut his hand off). Just as I don't think Anakin is intentionally trying to kill Padme yet he is trying to cause her pain. I think he is trying to hurt her because she has hurt him with her "betrayal". He is angry and lashing out but I don't think the intent is to kill. And that is part of the tradegy of the situation, he lashes out without considering the consequences and it causes the eventual death of Padme. It is in keeping with Anakin's personality that when he gets frustrated and upset he tends to lash out violently. Heck this trend contiunes in the OT when as Vader anytime he is upset with someone they end up getting force-choked.

    Yet I would wager that even when he is lashing out at Padme, in his own twisted mind he believes that eventually she will see he is doing the right thing supporting Palpatine, wiping out the Jedi, and that she will come back to him. In his own mind he is doing what is right and she will see that when everything is over. Part of his feeling of betrayal could be that she doesn't see how he is trying to make things better for her and the people of the galaxy.

  11. Darthoffski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2003
    star 4
    "Also, if Anakin killed Padme by choking, wouldn't that set a bad example to little boys who watch the movie and look up to Anakin?"



    No. It would be a bad example if Anakin got away with it and didn't think he'd done anything wrong.

    Think about what happens in the story...

    A good kid, with lots of potential, grows into a cocky teenager who wants to be better than everyone else. He doesn't listen to those older, wiser or more experienced than him. He only listens to someone who tells him exactly what he wants to hear and because of this his life is utterly destroyed. He betrays everyone who cares about him, he kills the defenceless, and towards the end of the tale, he hurts someone who loves him and very quickly after that he is punished by losing limbs, suffering agonising burns and becomes a cripple.

    Even when he is at his darkest, he still loves his wife and when he wakes up and discovers what he has done to her it tears him apart. He believes he can't undo what he has done, and it haunts him for the rest of his life.

    If there is a 'message for the kids' in all this it's that no matter how good you are at certain things, there are many people who have the experience to see more clearly than you do, and if you arrogantly ignore the advice of anyone who tries to help you, you are likely to lose everything you have. If you act without thinking about the consequences of your actions for other people you are selfish, and if you end up a lonely emotional cripple, it will be your fault, because you have acted like an immature infant who is incapable of understanding what is going on and have expressed your frustration by hitting out a people (in whatever literal or behavioural form that takes).

    Behave like Anakin. End up like Anakin.

    Bottom line is that no matter what we see Anakin do in the film, at the end he suffers unimaginable physical and psychological pain, and as such, it's a good thing for kids to see, because it informs them, within a fictional fantasy context, that even the best of the best cannot do whatever he feels like whenever he feels like it, not without becoming a monster who hurts people he cares about.

  12. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    Yes... although it's quite clear to anyone who watches the film that Vader is trying to make Luke angry any way he can. First he tries to make Luke angry by attacking him, but when Luke hides, he tries another tactic and makes him angry by threatening Leia. Why does he want Luke to be angry? So he'll fall to the dark side. Not to kill him.

    Did you just happen to skim over what I said in my previous post?:

    By the time of ROTJ, I believe Vader didn't want to kill Luke. His conscience and Luke's words were finally getting through with him.

    I wasn?t arguing the opposite in the context of those particular scenes in ROTJ.

    Erm... have you forgotten Vader's outstretched hand? He would have been pulled back by his father, and he would have joined him. He chose death instead (or what he thought would be death).

    That?s IF Luke had joined him. Since he didn?t want to, you don?t actually believe Vader would?ve still pulled him back, do you? If Luke didn?t fall himself, Vader would?ve made sure Luke met his destiny?death.

    Ok, again you've forgotten the details. Remember this line?

    "Join me, and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son!"

    His intention was for Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor, not to kill Luke. Besides, the whole carbon-freezing thing was just a trial-run, to see whether it would work. If it did, then Vader was going to use it on Luke to take him back to the Emperor. It nearly did work, too...


    Of course that was his initial goal. Obviously his plan did NOT work as smoothly as he had hoped. Luke was resisting his urge to go to the Dark Side and join him in place of the Emperor. Vader just wasn?t sitting back allowing Luke to get away. Vader was Force-throwing objects toward Luke and even cut off his hand with one swipe. From my POV, Vader was ready to kill Luke after the pivotal revelation that Vader was Luke?s father and then Luke?s resistance.

    This was the impression I have always had about Vader's thinking with Luke. Vader's desired option was always having Luke join him and overthrowing the Emperor. But after Luke kept resisting I think he genuinly tried to kill him, but by that point in ROTJ Luke had gotten strong enough to defeat Vader. But I can also see where someone would think Vader was still holding back.

    Thank you. You've summed up wonderfully pretty much everything I've been saying. However, I do believe Vader was holding back toward the latter half of ROTJ. Even in the beginning of the film, I sensed an unwillingness in Vader's mannerisms when the Emperor mentioned his intention of converting Luke to the Dark Side.

    Still I think question of wether Vader was trying to kill Luke or just defeat him isn't too relevant to the Padme situation because in either case Vader is perfectly willing to visit greivious bodily harm on his son Luke (he does cut his hand off). Just as I don't think Anakin is intentionally trying to kill Padme yet he is trying to cause her pain. I think he is trying to hurt her because she has hurt him with her "betrayal". He is angry and lashing out but I don't think the intent is to kill. And that is part of the tradegy of the situation, he lashes out without considering the consequences and it causes the eventual death of Padme. It is in keeping with Anakin's personality that when he gets frustrated and upset he tends to lash out violently. Heck this trend contiunes in the OT when as Vader anytime he is upset with someone they end up getting force-choked.

    Yet I would wager that even when he is lashing out at Padme, in his own twisted mind he believes that eventually she will see he is doing the right thing supporting Palpatine, wiping out the Jedi, and that she will come back to him. In his own mind he is doing what is right and she will see that when everything is over. Part of his feeling of betrayal could be that she doesn't see how he is trying to make things better for her and the people of the galaxy.


    =D=

    Beautifully said. There's not one word
  13. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    All of you are making arguments of why it should be done, and how it fits in with the "darkness" of the story, how tragic it will be and how it must happen for the story... I don't disagree with most of it, and understand the points you are all trying to make. However, that still doesn't mean that there will be scenes of Anakin cutting off the heads of younglings, or choking his wife. They may have been filmed, it certainly looked like it to me, although I wouldn't go betting money on it - but again, that doesn't mean they will keep it if he starts getting leery of the rating thing.

    The Tusken massacre was bad, but you didn't see anything onscreen. Again, I'm not saying that he won't go through with it, or it shouldn't happen. I'm saying if he does, you can count on comparisons with today's headlines taking place and it being used against the film. You should be as sure of that as you are of him choking her. ;) It will be interesting to see what rating the finished product will get.
  14. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    All of you are making arguments of why it should be done, and how it fits in with the "darkness" of the story, how tragic it will be and how it must happen for the story... I don't disagree with most of it, and understand the points you are all trying to make. However, that still doesn't mean that there will be scenes of Anakin cutting off the heads of younglings, or choking his wife. They may have been filmed, it certainly looked like it to me, although I wouldn't go betting money on it - but again, that doesn't mean they will keep it if he starts getting leery of the rating thing.

    Actually, I wasn't making the argument that Anakin should or needs to kill Padme. What I'm saying is, if Lucas wants to go that route, he must not take the easy way out with his execution. He should stand by the story he wants to tell, no matter what MPAA rating he ends up with.

    Padme's injuries by the hands of Anakin doesn't have to be grisly or graphic. But it must be dramatic and powerful if such an event is going to heave inescapable repercussions for the rest of the saga.



  15. NapoleonSolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2004
    star 2
    Yes he will and this is how it will go down,
    Anakin and Obi Wan will be in the middle of the duel on Mustaphar where Anakin will be getting the upper hand. Anakin has Obi Wan where he wants him just before Padme bursts onto the Scene, screaming for Anakin to stop. Anakin ignores her and is just about to Take Obi out when Padme somehow helps Obi Wan out of the situation. Anakin sees this as the ultimate act of betrayal and begins to force choke her, Obi Wan regains his composure and engages Anakin who throws Padme against a wall. The duel ends with the obvious result and Obi Wan rushes to Padme, she is in a bad state so he gets her on the Ship, The trauma forces Padme into Labour and she gives birth to Leia and Luke with the Help of Yoda before sucumbing to death.
  16. Mark_Maul Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 1
    Look at it like this:

    After the pod-racing scene, battle of Naboo, and the Coruscant chase, bashers still whine that the prequels have yet to show that Anikan is a good pilot.

    After ten years of a father/son relationship, and several inside jokes, bashers refuse to believe that Anikan and Obi-wan were established as good friends.

    Hell, after getting a detailed look at Yoda's involvement in the Jedi Temple, bashers still refuse to believe that Yoda was ever Obi-wan's teacher at some point.

    There are a lot of people who "want" to hate the prequels, and refuse to pick up on any subtlety, what so ever. Lucas is not an idiot, and he knows this. So, what is he going to do about it? Well, if the purpose of episode three is to show how anger and hate have devastated a good man, he is going to show it as powerfully, and clearly as possible.

    Anikan is going to ACCIDENTALLY harm, and most likely kill, the person he loves the most.

    Obviously it's going to be an accident. Without Obi-wan "holding him back", his powers have become savage and unchecked. He is a danger to himself, and everyone around him. That is when he is going to do the unthinkable.

    The problem here is that some people fail to realize two important points.

    1) Unless there is a single DEVASTATING and EMOTIONAL event that causes Anikan to spite himself enough to join the Darkside, bashers will whine that we were never given a good reason for Vader to join the emperor. If the spoilers are true, then we will certainly understand the change. If cozy fans on the internet can't forgive the man for killing his wife, how do you think he will feel? He will feel utterly irredeemable. He will hate himself, and the Vader portion of his soul will wish Anikan Skywalker dead.

    2) Anikan Skywalker becomes Vader, and Vader IS NOT A NICE PERSON. He never has been. Yes, he's redeemed at the end, but for twenty years, we've known he can be a savage, genocidal sorcerer. He has wiped out entire planets, snapped necks with, and without the force, and enjoys a good torture session every now and then, hoping his son may drop by for a cup of tea. I agree that Anikan in TPM and AOTC is a fairly nice chap (save for the slaughtering and all), but we all knew that he would become Vader. He has to become Vader. We've already seen it. For 90% of the films, Vader has been an embodiment of pure evil, so please don't start complaining because his downfall may contain accidental manslaughter.
  17. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Mark, I agree with you on everything there except for the fact that I don't think Lucas is really trying to impress the bashers with this next movie or make them undesrstand, because no one really cares about them. It's impossible to try and reason with them. It's impossible for Lucas to make a movie that they like 100%.
  18. BombardTarkin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 3
    Yes.


    Did I read the entire, huge thread? No.
  19. Tion_Meddon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2004
    star 4
  20. DARTH_GOLLUMSMEAGOL Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 5
    does anakin try to kill padme......yes.....does he succedd? no......the droids heal her.....I am starting to think that palpas is goign to kill her
  21. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Will Anakin kill Padme?

    Nah, I don't think so. If he does, he's a real jerk, but I don't think Lucas would put somethink like that in his movies. It's not his style.
  22. ARC-016 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2005
    i think that padme will die shortly after giving birth to luke and leia cuz i remember hearing sumwhere that anakin was truobled by visions of padme dying in birth
  23. MAGAX_DESTROYER Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2005
    star 4
  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Anakin kills her, by breaking her heart when he becomes Vader.
  25. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    One question and one admission:

    I have read some, but not all, of the rumors regarding Anakin's fall (since I see that as far more important and entertaining than General Grievous, Palpy/Sidious, or how cool the Jedi Starfighter looks) and I've read nearly all of what GL has said about it. Suffice it to say that there is very little correlation between the two. That, along with the precedents set in the PT and the OT, as well as the precedents set mythologically and literarily, and I cannot conclude, regardless of what has been said on the 3SA boards, that Anakin, in some way, kills Padme.

    With that said, my question is: not taking into account "rumors" from anonymous sources or fanboys with their own websites, but from LFL itself (including direct quotes, the Insider, Hyperspace, etc.), where is the evidence that he kills his wife, even indirectly?

    Also, I ask this question with the intention of getting real facts, not a tidbit and then a lot of speculation or assumption -- which seems to be pervasive on the 3SA boards.
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