Will Booker's new editorial for TheForce.net(another whinefest)

Just because this guy (or some of you) can't see the reasons for the changes doesn't mean Lucas didn't have any.

just because Lucas had reasons to change them doesnt make them good reasons or good changes.

i can enjoy them for what they are and deny that i think they are problematic or can see them for what they are to me: poorly executed and poorly thought out changes for the sake of change. at least im happy knowing i am holding true to my feelings and opinion about the changes rather than just accepting them because someone else is trying to tell me i have no other choice.

 

Free will, it's a beautiful thing.

 

>>That's why we preserve history. History shouldn't be revised and redone for the sake of future generations, future generations should adapt and make themselves open to different facets of the culture.<<

So true. However, you should be making this point in a History forum somewhere. We're discussing a completely fictional work called 'Star Wars'. It is a fairy tale, not History. Maybe you have trouble telling one from the other?

If one is curious they can find ample info on the 'history' of the various versions of 'Star Wars'. Vintage '77 clips are even on the DVD documentaries. The changes are noted in the published screenplays. The older cuts are available for under $20 on VHS on ebay. If someone is truly interested in the historical aspect of this film, *no one* is stopping them from investigating further.

Before you go on and on (and on) about how Lucas is keeping the people down by not putting the so-called 'oroginals' out blah blah blah, you'd have to go to similar lengths if you wanted to read, say, the original versions of T.S. Eliot's 'Four Quartets'. That's what scholarship is all about. You have to put a little effort into it sometimes.

 

forgive me if ive misread the behaviour and comments of some in this thread, but i cant for the life of me fathom why a fan of Star Wars would actually be happy that the original films are not readily available on DVD, like any other classic film is. you are fans of Star Wars, yes? or are you just fans of technology and the PT?

for 20 years fans celebrated and loved the original films and now, all of a sudden it sounds like some fans always thought the OT was trash. it reminds me of people who wont watch movies just because they are in black and white.

i just dont get it at all.

 

It's choice, that's all. Personal opinion. For some fans, the changes made still don't make a difference to how they feel about the films.

It may not be understandable to you, but at least you can let them enjoy whatever they like, right?

Just as this Booker guy, much as I disagree with his article, can keep on writing them for as long as he wants to. It's his opinion, and if he can put it all together into a editorial then good for him. I don't agree with it, but I can understand why he wrote it.

 

I can understand the fans' emotions behind all this. Lucas is basically saying with the changes is the films you loved as children weren't really that great. Actually he is quoted as saying that! As imperfect as the old versions were, it's the versions that impacted them the most and they hate to see it cast aside. He might be the only one as the artist to really know that the original versions don't quite fit his vision. Some of the newer changes on the DVD are probably for continuity, to make the whole story fit. Few art really lasts forever or preserved in it's original form. The friezes that are on top of Greek ruins like the Parthenon were actually painted and not white, but the color faded away. The nose of the Sphinx broke off as well as the Venus D'Milo's arms. It might be sad but you envy the people who were able to witness them as they once were. I think the Star Wars generation should consider itself special as the ones to see the classic trilogy in it's original version for the last time.

 

So true. However, you should be making this point in a History forum somewhere. We're discussing a completely fictional work called 'Star Wars'. It is a fairy tale, not History. Maybe you have trouble telling one from the other?

Yes, because Star Wars, as a film, has no historical significance nor value in popular culture.

If one is curious they can find ample info on the 'history' of the various versions of 'Star Wars'. Vintage '77 clips are even on the DVD documentaries. The changes are noted in the published screenplays. The older cuts are available for under $20 on VHS on ebay. If someone is truly interested in the historical aspect of this film, *no one* is stopping them from investigating further.

Before you go on and on (and on) about how Lucas is keeping the people down by not putting the so-called 'oroginals' out blah blah blah, you'd have to go to similar lengths if you wanted to read, say, the original versions of T.S. Eliot's 'Four Quartets'. That's what scholarship is all about. You have to put a little effort into it sometimes.

That's all fine and dandy, but this isn't the academy, and "Four Quartets" isn't an important part of our popular culture.

We're living in an age that is more archival than any other. The difference between now and those other periods is the technological advances that allow us to save works in an electronic format. One that, in theory, last forever. Compare that to the original versions of Four Quartets and such that had to exist on some form of paper, and it weren't maintained, it was gone.

In this day and age, there is no excuse for something as important and influencial in the popular circle as the original Star Wars to be saved in a digital format like DVD. One would figure we would know better than people of the early twentieth century, or even twenty or thirty years ago.

 

The excuse is Lucas doesn't want to remember the originals as they were, he wants to remember them as they are when it's finally finished.

 

you are fans of Star Wars, yes? or are you just fans of technology and the PT?


With due respect that's a little unfair I think, Dr E. Lots of people like SW for different reasons. There are people here who only love it for the action and the special fx. Some people only care about the sci-fi-fantasy setting. People like me love it for it's incredibly clever story-telling threads and its spiritual focus. Some people just like it for the characters or its episodic format. Some people just like it because they were huge phenomenon movies back in the 80's and for them it's nostalgic bliss of a better time in their lives. Some of us even like it for all of the above and more.

When I was little I loved SW only for the special fx (to be fair I didn't learn to speak English till I was 8 so i was a little clueless about the story). As I grew older I realized how much the spirituality of the saga fit in with my own world view and then I re-latched onto it. Then during the 97 SE, I came across the EU and saw the storytelling motifs being expanded on in fabulous new ways that I couldn't fathom and that was what turned me into a SW "fan" as opposed to the enthusiast I had been for years.

Today I'm a fan of SW because of what it stands for in the world of moviemaking (the industry I work in) and because of the awe I feel for its ever-expanding scope as a moralistic tale. My love for the special effects...and the nostalgia...have (personally) waned to very little.

Socialogically speaking the phenomenon of the SW cultural explosion in the 70's and 80's is funky beyond words, but the structure and form of the movies back then remains - for me personally as a fan - merely historically interesting (and yes it should be preserved as a historical 'snapshot' for future film affecianados to peruse over...released as a 'historical edition' or 'work print edition' or whatever Lucas wants to call it). The SW that I love and cherish and adore has grown beyond that, just as the SW that ppl loved and cherished in 77 had grown beyond that with the addition of the 'New Hope' title to the scroll and the release of the vastly different 'Empire Strikes Back' in 81.

SW, to me, is a wonderful and engaging cultural experiment (and money-making masterstroke) by Lucas and as I grow older I find new facets that intrigue me as the franchise and the stories develop.

Aesthetically I find - personally - the more complex story of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi much more enjoyable and carthartic than the straightforward narrative of Luke, Han and the droids. I find the expanded scope of the broader universe much easier to accept and enjoy than the strict 3-movie environment. And though I'm not a fan of the technology fully, I find it fascinating to see how CG challenges Lucas and his workers and find it interesting to see where they succeed and more than occassionally fail. My nostalgia is in my past, but the present and the future holds for me far greater excitement as a fan of movies, SW and life and culture in general.

These are my own views on SW and what makes me a SW fan and these are not shared exactly by anyone else, they are unique to my own but they are what motivate me to come here, to reach out and touch with other members of humanity who share my passion, to debate and (in my case) to occassionally defend the views of others (including Lucas).

But this is what makes me a SW fan and its aspects including the revisionism, the PT (which I love), the EU and Lucas's philosophies on the medium.

We are all different. We are all unique. In that sense we are all sometimes alone. But we are all here, togerther as SW fans.

 

>>"Four Quartets" isn't an important part of our popular culture<<

Does it have to be?

Your argument is very weak and comes down to, "Put this out because I want you to."

Star Wars isn't finished yet. Many paintings were exhibited, even sold (!) and later reworked by the artist. This is SW. Get used to it.

 

great post NZ!

i just get annoyed when i see people trashing the very films that made Star Wars fans, and this board, and the PT and the rest of it all possible.

 

Does it have to be?

For your argument, it would have to be.

Your argument is very weak and comes down to, "Put this out because I want you to."

Not really, you've pretty much given Lucas' reason for not releasing them.

Many of the people who want them released to the public want them for greater reasons other than just personal fulfillment.

Star Wars isn't finished yet. Many paintings were exhibited, even sold (!) and later reworked by the artist. This is SW. Get used to it.

Not a good analogy, since those cases were done on a personal level and none of those works had world noteriety. None of the artists you've probably got in mind broke into a museum and reworked paintings, telling people "get used to it." I'm sorry, but it's you who has the weak argument here.

 

i can sympathize with that, it's the chronic hyperbole that puts us all on edge like calling Lucas "greedy" or an "idiot" which basically trash-talking as well. I can understand that people feel the films are more complete now because of the upgraded FX, but that doesn't warrant people making dramatic hyperbole by saying the original films 'sucked' because they clearly did NOT when they first came out and still don't for a LOT of people and it's important to remember and respect that.

I feel for ya Dr E!

None of the artists you've probably got in mind broke into a museum and reworked paintings, telling people "get used to it."

Sorry dude that's a somewhat biased connotation on that analogy. A better one is to have the artist change the work "inbetween exhibitions", not 'breaking in and changing'.

 

Sorry dude that's a somewhat biased connotation on that analogy. A better one is to have the artist change the work "inbetween exhibitions", not 'breaking in and changing'.

Same thing. The analogy still applies.

 

Meh guess i'm just getting upset over semantics of language....difference between Lucas being a hypocrite and a moron right?

Better analogy - Edvard Munch's painting "The Scream". The artist did 4 different revisions of his famous work with many changes around the central figure. One of which is in the hands of a collector who will not allow reprints to be made (and of course one is now missing and in the hands of art thieves).

But of course I know you don't approveo of revisionism, so that's no excuse really

 

Meh guess i'm just getting upset over semantics of language....difference between Lucas being a hypocrite and a moron right?

One could say he's both, just not for the same reasons.

Better analogy - Edvard Munch's painting "The Scream". The artist did 4 different revisions of his famous work with many changes around the central figure. One of which is in the hands of a collector who will not allow reprints to be made (and of course one is now missing and in the hands of art thieves).

But of course I know you don't approveo of revisionism, so that's no excuse really

Yep. Did you think I was gonna defend that?

 

Yep. Did you think I was gonna defend that?

guess you're making assumptions without knowing me as well my dear sir

 

DE: You're only going to disagree with anything anyone says so it's not worth talking to you.

Lucas hasn't done anything which other filmmakers, painters, writers, composers etc. haven't done numerous times before. I think you overestimate the 'cultural significance' of these films. They're very popular, they push the envelope in some areas but they're not exactly 'The 99 Articles' or 'Common Sense'. Just good movies...that aren't finished yet.

Bye!

 

guess you're making assumptions without knowing me as well my dear sir

Nope, if I was being presumptuous, I would have just made a declaration. That's why I was asking instead.

I'm far too above that.

 

I'm far too above that.

Of course you are.

 

{b]DE: You're only going to disagree with anything anyone says so it's not worth talking to you.[/b]

did you miss my last post where i expressed how great i thought NZ's post was? that post was about some things i disagree with but it was heartfelt and well said.

 

In response to Dr. Evazan, we are all huge Star Wars fans! We love it or we wouldn't be coming to these boards talking about it. I LOVE the original Star Wars movies! Like you probably did, I grew up with them. Are you saying I'm trashing the name of Star Wars by accepting and actually liking these updated versions. I think my liking the new versions of these films doesn't make me any less a Star Wars fan than you are. And I would LOVE to have the original unaltered version. To me, more Star Wars is a good thing. But frankly, I'm still going to sleep fine at night if Lucas never puts the theatrical release on DVD and I'll still enjoy watching the movies I do have on DVD as much as I enjoyed watching them years ago. I think I speak for many FANS here when I say this.

By the way, I think you need to change that signature. There's no way you'll be able to stop yourself from watching Episode III eventallly. Love the prequels or hate the prequels, it's the duty of every Star Wars fan to see this story to the end.

 

NZPoe, your 10/5 2:35pm post is very well said.

 

Gracias amigo.