Will CLONES box office affect EP 3 content?

The thing that hurt Clones B.O. more than anything else was PM. Had AOTC been Ep1 it's BO would be through the roof. AOTC was a better movie and had there been the 16 year wait. Wow. Titanic might have some competition.

If the BO of clones is disappointing to Lucas he should realize that kiddifying Ep3 will destroy it. I'd be surprised if it made 200 mil if he did.

What he should do even more, is address the complaints better. He addressed many of the PM's complaints and while not 100% successful, he tried. If he's worried about Ep3 BO, here's what he has to do.

1) bring in as many writers and take as long as necessary to make the script awesome. If still not satisified when production is about to commence...push it back.

2) Spend more time with actors. This should be the most important thing. Don't let the actors half ass it on 2 takes then yell "Print!" Get super performances.

3) Make it easier for the actors. Build more real physical sets. Less CGI for them to act against. If anything Ep3 should be an intimate character driven movie. Facillitate this as much as possible.

4) Any instinct to do something silly, like a fart joke or the 3PO stuff in AOTC, LOSE.

5) Don't worry about rating or running time. Many scenes in AOTC that could have been more powerful were cut short. Either, because it seemed, that Lucas was concerned that people would get bored, the movie would run past a certain predetermined time limit or it would get a PG13.

If anything, Lucas should look at LOTR as an example. Mature storytelling, run time over 3 hours and a PG13 rating. I don't think any of that hurt it's family market potential. And based on the box office, it might even do better than AotC.

Let that be your lesson George on how to make Ep3.

 

MadMardigan, no one could have said it better.

 

Empire might have made less money but it was more succesful than jedi because it sold more tickets. It's just tickets cost more in 83 so it looks like jedi was more succesful when it wasn't. here is the SW movies domestic grosses with inflation ANH 979.2m, ESB 547.4m ROTJ 524.2m & TPM 475.2m.

 

MadMardigan:

You bring up some obvious, but good, points. Lucas has lost his way with storytelling, especially when it comes to the writing and the acting. I don't blame the actors for the performances entirely. I think Lucas really doesn't care about them. No director who does would stick his actors in front of a blue screen for the majority of the time, or have them acting to a tennis ball. For Lucas, I think the acting is very utilitarian, and if he just gets a line reading, he's satisfied. It's his call if he only does 2/3 takes, not the actors. I'm sure if they asked for another take to experiment with an emotion, Lucas would veto it.

As for the writing, well, Lucas will need to bring in someone who can take him to task on certain issues. I don't know who that could be. I'm sure everyone will have their vote. But I think Lucas, at the very least, will write a draft.

As for toning down the digital: McCallum has already said the Ep 3 will be the most reliant on effects, so there goes that theory. But, then again, if EP 2 does continue to stall at the box office, maybe Lucas will be reluctant to spend as much on Ep 3.

At the end of the day, my question goes to a quote Lucas made a few weeks ago: "If CLONES does around $275 million, we'll be fine. If it does less, then it'll be time to reevalute what we're doing for Ep 3." What does he mean by "reevaluate"? Is that reevaluate story, budget, or content?

In any case, Lucas will be fine, especially with the worldwide box office and ancilliary revenues. But if he's disappointed with CLONES's box office, maybe he'll react positively and realize that some of what he's doing isn't working with the general public. Yes, STAR WARS has the largest and most devoted fan base of ANY franchise. But you need Joe Sixpack to come in to make it a blockbuster. Clearly, Joe's not watching this time.

 

I also think that aside from filmmaking complaints, the PT has become very SW specific. meaning you really have to know SW inside and out to really get what's going on. I think it was much easier for Joe Sixpack to relate to the OT simply because most of the characters were human. Filling the entire frame with stuff can really be sensory overload for the regular viewer.

 

MadMardigan:

It's funny you should say that because I just got an e. mail from a friend who is pretty much Joe Sixpack when it comes to STAR WARS; i.e., he is familiar with the movies but doesn't read the books, go to FORCE.NET, etc. He needed me to explain the plot to him, as in "Who orderd the Clone army? Why was Jango Fett the template?" etc. People do tend to get lost in the prequel stories.

 

I like the summation threads that people post in terms of Sideous' ultimate plan and what he's done so far, etc.

It goes on for pages. So much more economy and simplicity.

 

Telemachos:

Yes, I was trying to write an explanation to my friend about what Sidious was up to and wound up writing an entire page. While I think I understand it, I had a hard time explaining it. Imagine what that's like for a guy in Wisconsin who just wandered into the theater with his two kids.

 

Q: It Looks like this film is going to be a bit darker in tone and atmosphre than Episode I

GEORGE LUCAS: It's definitely getting a little bit more intense. The next one will probably be the darkest of all of them. Ultimately, I have to tell a story. So the story comes first. And I can't really play it to an audience. I mean the story is what the story is. I knew that it was going to go very dark. You know, it may not be very successful when I get down that dark. But, you know, at least the thing will be finished and it will have been good to me. There's not much I can do about. I can't take a story that's basically very, very dark and make it happy. Because it's not. - Extract from Star Wars insider #52

 

I find the PT stories becoming increasingly more complex. Part of the problems of the PT is this complexity. Everyone could understand the story for ANH(and I guess you could say the same for ROTJ). A big giant ship is going to blow up a planet. The good guys have to stop it. Pretty simple. Yet Ep1 and 2 have been far more complex. GL says he makes these for kids. God I'd hate to be a kid growing up with the PT. When I grew up with the OT I always liked explaining some of the subtleties to my parents. But with the PT I see it as going the other way around. And even then, I'm not sure a parent could even explain some of the story elements to a child.

All in all, the storytelling in the PT is becoming more and more the sci-fi like storytelling of dare I say Star Trek.

I guess that's my major problem. It's becoming Star Trek. SW was initially a pulpy western/samurai movie with spaceships. I'm not sure what it is now. It's just much colder than the OT. It doesn't seem the characters in the PT actually inhabit the space they're in. The actors are too afraid to show any life. The action has been big and grand but lacks tension and passion. Etc. Etc.

What George has to learn from the B.O. is that the mass audience cares more about heart, emotion and characters before digital photography, THX sound, CGI characters, digital back lots, loud explosions, etc.

The reason why Spiderman kicked AOTC's ass in the BO is simply because of Tobey Maguire's performance. He felt REAL. He was witty, charming and generally LIKEABLE. Because let's face it. The EFX of spiderman don't hold a candle to AOTC and the storytelling isn't that much better. But we cared about the characters. We felt joy when Peter Parker swung through the air, much in the same way we felt joy when Luke was blowing Tie Fighters in ANH. The PT seems to lack this sense of wonder and joy.

I don't know. I hate TPM and loved AOTC. But its nowhere near the holy trilogy. Maybe it's because I grew up with them like gushers claim. But I tend to feel that it's because they're better MOVIES than anything else.

 

Yeah, Spidey has HUGE problems structurally -- that second act just completely collapses and the Green Goblin is developed so paper-thin that it's laughable. But you can feel the heart and personality beating underneath (at least, in places) and I (sadly) didn't feel that that much in AOTC.

I agree that the sheer complexity of the PT is a good part of the problem. Lucas says this is the story -- what is he going to do? I wonder if EVERYTHING that we see is really necessary. Do we NEED to know the little intricate movements of the Senate? About the plots-within-plots hatched by Sideous, the Trade Federation, etc? How about just hinting at some of this and streamlining the story to strengthen it? That way you'd have some time for genuine human moments -- how would a little child slave feel when he suddenly sees the glory and majesty of Coruscant, for example?

 

The key is to watch out for one major word: re-write. I think GL has been using the last two movies to set up this last film and he's got loose ends all over the place. I think that the story of Episode 3 is probably the most complete of them all and likely it has already been there ready to make for quite a while. It has little probably a little bit of dialougue written for it but not too much.

My theory is that if he's disappointed with how AOTC performs then I expect we will hear that he will bring in co-writers and re-write the entire episode in places. If he isn't hurt we will likely hear very little about it and George will very likely not bring in a co-writer. I hope we as fans and that Joe Six-pack keep him happy enough not to touch his vision because I have loved it so far.

 

I know this is the nonspoiler forum, but I just wanted to comment that we may actually be seeing some of what's been discussed here becoming a reality, if recent news can be believed.

Let's hope things work out for the best.

 

I can't believe what I'm hearing in this topic. Clones wasn't any darker than TPM? Lucas should be making the prequels for Joe Sixpack rather than the fans? Did you guys even see AOTC?
I only hope when Lucas makes Episode III he ignores all the negative bull**** about the box office and critical backlash and just makes a film that both he and the fans can be proud of. If Episode III is as big an improvement on AOTC as AOTC was on TPM, I don't think we have anything to worry about. And if the price of Lucas staying true to his vision is making less money at the box office, so be it. Star Wars is wasted on regular moviegoers, anyway. I'd rather watch a Star Wars films with fans clapping at every action scene and laughing at every joke, rather than a regular audience just sitting there in stony silence.

 

I know this is the nonspoiler forum, but I just wanted to comment that we may actually be seeing some of what's been discussed here becoming a reality, if recent news can be believed.

Let's hope things work out for the best.

All right Scruffy-Looking, what did you mean by that? Are you saying that there are already spoilers that cast Episode 3 in a negative light? I don't really see how this is possible, given that the script isn't even done yet.

So without revealing any spoilers, is that what you meant?

 

I don't think that GL should ask anyone but himself to direct. He has been making many choices and decisions based on what he has planned for episode 3. He has set it all up and should finish it. And to answer the asinine question in the thread title: No.

 

All right Scruffy-Looking, what did you mean by that? Are you saying that there are already spoilers that cast Episode 3 in a negative light? I don't really see how this is possible, given that the script isn't even done yet.

So without revealing any spoilers, is that what you meant?

No, and if I did imply that I apologize. Here's the link which prompted my speculation. Warning: possible spoilers there. All I meant to say is that if this information is true, it might (repeat, might) reflect Ep 2's B.O. Then again, it may not.

If this is how Ep 3 will unfold, it doesn't mean that Ep 3 will be bad, just different than what I was thinking about. It's no big deal, and again sorry for making it seem that way.

(Hope no one was spoiled by this!)

 

You know, if it comes from George Lucas' mouth then I'm sure it doesn't count as a spoiler.