Speculation Will Disney listen to the fans and give them what they want?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jimstarwarsfan, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    Than you are demanding more PT. PT is Star Wars and there is (thankfully!) nothing you can do about it. And Avengers & X-men were awesome.
  2. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Sometimes I wonder if people realize that Star Wars doesn't belong to them?

    When the PT was made, all the things that (some) people didnt like were not "mistakes" that should have been corrected. They were part of the story being told by the storyteller.

    Nobody says you have to like the PT or anything else.

    It's not wrong just because you don't like it.

    [face_relieved]
    -NaTaLie- and DarthKreVass like this.
  3. Doug625 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    all I can say is when I first saw Star Trek back in 2009, I remember thinking 10 minutes into the film, "why couldn't the Star Wars PT have had this type of feel?" And, I am nowhere close to being a Star Trek fan. A darker feeling feeling does not mean more violence or gore, it just means more intense drama with a lot at stake
  4. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    Yeah...that's a complex debate. I agree that something is not wrong because you just don't like it. But sometimes there's people, including me, that consider that we don't like something and at the same time we consider it is indeed wrong. BTW there are movies that i don't like but i think they are NOT wrong. For example, Citizen Kane. So....the debate between wrong and right...of course it's a subjective debate. BUT, there are some conventions to that. For example, a lot of people agree that the PT is not only not of their liking, but it's also wrong. Why? Well, because in general is has a weak dialogue, weak characters, weak plot, and too much CGI. You may think all those reasons don't make a movie to be "wrong"...You may even like the Avengers. Well, it's OK. But you have to understand that to a LOT of people the PT and movies like the Avengers are plain WRONG.

    And what's more....the more that person knows about movies the more that person will not like that kind of movies. If you ask a 7-year-old Joe about Avengers, he will tell you it's not a wrong movie. If you ask Quentin Tarantino if Avengers is a good movie....i think you can guess his answer!!! I trust a lot more Tarantino than the average Joe.
    Last edited by Alderaan Luke, Dec 16, 2012
  5. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    funny thing is people do think Star Wars is theirs! Isn't that pretty funny though? I find it Funny. Disney OWNS star Wars the brand & will own the new Disney Trilogy they will produce. These 3 movies under the Disney banner will always belong to Disney & never to George Lucas. I appreciate what GL has done with the 6 he made. I love the way he concluded them & I think he deserves the break & vacation from certain fans who wish to control him & his work.
  6. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Did you just say we should DEMAND MORE from Star Wars?? Really guy? I feel embarassed.
  7. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    I am not embarassed for demanding the best possible product for the ST. Star Wars fans deserve it and these new movies are the last chance for it in many peoples opinions.
    Darth kRud likes this.
  8. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    I don't see what's so wrong in demanding things. They may listen you, they may not. But demanding something is not so wrongs. If they don't like what you are demanding, they will not listen you.
  9. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    The Walt Disney firm will make a gaggle of Star Wars movies, its not that serious. First there was the 6, now disney will do 3 as one trilogy, then Disney will do tones more movies to cash in. Its not about art anymore, its about Money, Disney is in business to make money. Soon there be 20 - 30 star wars movies from the disney banner its going to be great. The more Star Wars product Disney can flood the market with the better. I'm glad Disney will gain from their investment.
  10. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    @CoolyFett

    You seem a Disney's Financial Inverstor. I mean...You say you are OK with Star Wars being not ART anymore. You are OK with it being just Money?! I want both things: art and money. But the most important one is ART.
    Darth kRud likes this.
  11. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    I have the Star Wars movies I like, so I'm satisfied, I have no demands from Disney lol, hell I'm not that important lol. Its just a movie guys...please tell me the lives of some Star Wars fans is not this depressing? A world where fans are agree at Disney for being Disney? No wonder guys are shooting up schools in CT...this type of obsession is note worthy.
  12. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    Of course my live is not depressing. And of course if the movie is bad i would not suicide or influence my life. Of course is not that important to me. I also don't have any demand to Disney. I will just go to see the movie if the movie is good. If i think the movie is gonna suck, then i will not going to see it. I don't like to go to watch bad movies to the cinema. That's the only thing i know. It's not important to me. I just want the movie to be GOOD. Is wanting a good movie obsessive to you??

    You don't care if the movie is good??? Ok, perfect. But i do care. (a little).
    Last edited by Alderaan Luke, Dec 16, 2012
  13. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Not after 4 billion green backs my friend. Disney will cash in I say good for them, they put up the money, they deserve a return. No point in getting upset & demanding things. This is too much for me & you guys sound really scary, its just a movie folks.
  14. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    I need to take a break, the post are becoming way too outlandish. This is what being a Star Wars fan has become?? Smh
  15. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    Look, i just demand a good movie. Just like in every other movie i demand a good movie. If i was in the Star Trek forum, i would also demand it to be good. As a SPECTATOR i ALWAYS demand a movie to be good (to me). You really sound like a Financial Director, not a spectator. You seem to really care about MONEY. And the movie doesn't upset me. It's you who makes me upset. LOL.
  16. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    An important thing to consider is that Disney now has the responsibility not to ruin the Star Wars Franchise. A question that has been on my mind since Disney aquired the franchise is, Do you have faith in Disney to be able to produce a set of films that will not deminish the integrity of Star Wars?

    The answer to my own question is yes. I do have faith that Disney will make a set of films that will exceed all expectations.
    Last edited by burrisjedimaster1, Dec 16, 2012
  17. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    offtopic

    Disclaimer: The comment below is just a personal opinion, and it's politically incorrect
    Before globalization you as a film maker had to appeal to both the spectators that knew about movies and were demanding, and the spectators less demanding that didn't watch many movies (or didn't care very much about the quality of the plot, dialogues, etc)....Why? Well, because you couldn't use so much advertising as today, and you had a more reduced (only national) audience target. You couldn't make a dumb CGI movie like Avengers or Transformers and ignore that demanding intellectual audience, because the audience was very limited and also, you couldn't use so much media and adverts to make a 70% of no-demanding people go to watch the movie and ignore the demanding audience. In other words: YOU NEEDED ALL, THE WHOLE AUDIENCE TARGET. Not only the "dumber" ones.

    With globalization, we've seen they can target only that kind of people that only cares about CGI and one-liners and ignore the demanding intelligent audience. They can focuse on the 90-100 IQ people (the majority) and ignore the 110-120 IQ people (the minority). Nowadays they can make a dumb movie and make A LOT, MILLIONS of people go to watch it because of a MASSIVE audicence target thanks to globalization and the new kind of massive Advertising and social networks. So, i think the intellectual audience in some sense is no longer needed, specially for some kinds of movies. So, what can we do? Not much really, just stick to the directors that we like and that target our audience type.

    So, i hope with Star Wars they can make both types of audience happy. Not just one type, like with Avengers or Transformers.

    /offtopic
    Last edited by Alderaan Luke, Dec 16, 2012
  18. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    As a fan what do I want disney to do, simple:

    1) A fun engaging adventure story that I can lose myself in.
    2) Charachters I can care about and relate too.
    3) The plot making sense and not having people do or say stupid things because the plot deamands
    4) As little CGI/blue screen as possible, with location shooting and honest to good effects.
    5) A good fast flowing script with decent dialouge.
    6) Good casting and acting.
    7) No Jar Jar.

    And thats it.
    Last edited by fett 4, Dec 16, 2012
  19. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    You are contradicting yourself some here. ALL of that is subjective, and merely opinions, including whether or not the elements of the PT are how you describe them (weak plot, bad CGI, etc.). The majority of fans and critics liked ROTS and the Avengers, check Rotten Tomatoes or any other places that counts/measures this.

    What is being "wrong" in a movie? Does that mean it is morally wrong to have made that movie? Does it violate some unknown 11th commandment (though shalt not make movies that Alderaan Luke thinks are sucky)?

    Whether you think it is wrong or just a bad movie, that is ONLY an opinion, no matter how you try to chop it up.

    No one person is an ultimate authority on this either, including Tarantino. A lot of people think that some of his movies suck. Some people who I talked to back in the day didn't even like Pulp Fiction (too violent, a rape scene, etc.), which to me is unimaginable (I think it is an ultra-classic). These are intelligent people that I respect. It all comes down to our own perceptions of things, which aren't right or wrong when it comes to judging a work of art like a film, they are just opinions. PERIOD.
    Last edited by Lee_, Dec 16, 2012
  20. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    Of course you can find excepcions. And i've told you that it is indeed something subjective, but that there's some conventions, IN GENERAL, that the people that know more about movies, for example, the best directors, not only Tarantino, but if you ask the TOP50 Hollywood directors i am sure 90% of them will tell you that the Avengers is just a popcorn movie. Nothing more. Of course it is subjective. Everything is subjective. But i think you get want i mean.

    And BTW i was not talking about "morally wrong". It was more of a "quality wrong" meaning.
    And don't tell me that the opinion of the average Joe has the same relevance than the same than the opinion of directors when judging a movie, because a lot of Joes, maybe including myself, don't know NOTHING about the quality of the movies. Why? Well, because we are not professionals of movie making. Directors are, and for me, are more qualified to judge movies, even more than critics.
    Last edited by Alderaan Luke, Dec 16, 2012
  21. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Sorry dude, not true. Critics are harder than anyone on movies, Avengers was widely raved on. Of a mass sample of critics (290), 92% gave thumbs up; of the top critics, 84% gave thumbs up. Of a mass sample of people (nearly a half-million), 96% gave thumbs up. Must have been that they all fall in that 90-100 range, eh?

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers/

    What you are saying would be more true of way lesser movies that most people agree are bad, but you are WAY overstating the case when it comes to the movies you are referring to.
    Last edited by Lee_, Dec 16, 2012
  22. Alderaan Luke Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 1
    Sorry, but critics are not Directors. Did you read my post? I was talking about TOP directors. Not the New York times, that BTW maybe 50% of the critics are BOUGHT by multinational movie studios.

    And BTW, yes, the majority of people are in the 100 IQ range.
    Last edited by Alderaan Luke, Dec 16, 2012
  23. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
  24. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think this post exemplifies why Disney should not listen to the fans and give them what they want when making Episode VII. Why? Because fans aren't a hive mind and we each have very strong opinions on what makes a movie enjoyable or not enjoyable. And that's perfectly fine, but because these opinions are contradictory, trying to incorporate everyone's opinion is a recipe for disaster. There's simply no accounting for taste and the one way to ensure that you will fail is to try to please everyone -- it's impossible.

    A lot of people think that the PT is bad or "wrong," but (conversely) a lot of people don't and quite like it (I count myself among their number). No one is objectively correct when it comes down to it, so how is Disney going to make all the fans happy?

    In general, I found the PT's dialogue about equal to the OT's. I found its characters and plot better. I liked the effects as well (although, for their time, the OT's were better and my favorite style is that of the Empire's). But there's clearly people who disagree with me.

    It also comes down to what one expects to get out of a movie. You have to consider that not everyone is as invested in Star Wars as greatly and so expectations and preferences will differ.

    Honestly, I think Disney should just make the darn thing and if people like it they can watch and enjoy it, if they don't, they can ignore it (which is what I do for TCW and the EU).
  25. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I read all of your posts, and you are making many huge stretches and unconfirmed assertions. Where is your poll of "top" directors who say this about the Avengers? Even if that isn't something you pulled out of your rear (which I believe it is), it is silly to say directors make up "convention," or have opinions that are any more legit than anyone else (actors, producers, critics, etc.). I like the way you cling to this idea that directors don't like the Avengers, when the overwhelming majority of everyone else does.

    Your other assertions are not only laughable, but grossly condescending and full of self-worship. Average intelligence people like different films than above average people? Source? Where is the research on a correlation between intelligence and movie taste? Yet another fact you pulled from your butt. As is the percentage of critics bought by the corporations. Yes, there is bias in the media, but that is clearly exaggerating and using it to suit your opinion; plenty of big-corporation, big money movies have gotten bad reviews, plenty of small-time movies have gotten good ones. Critics and fans alike loved the Avengers, get over it.