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Discussion Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by BalanceOfTheForce, Dec 18, 2017.

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  1. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 18, 2016
    He believe that the trilogy will end with Reylo continuing the bloodline
  2. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    May 2, 2013
    Ghost Luke finds a way to reverse time using the Force. He defeats Snoke instead of confronting Kylo. Later Kylo meets Rey but Kylo is not evil at that point. They have kids, everyone is happy, Han and Leia are grandparents and all is good. But the child of Rey and Kylo becomes possessed by the evil spirit of Palpatine or Snoke and it all starts over again. Hee hee!
    Luke02 likes this.
  3. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    They won't feel the backlash now financially, but I think LFL will feel this in NINE. Sure, people will go see it out of curiosity as it is the film that will round off the trilogy. But in terms of merchandising, and general interest in the film, they'll feel it down the road. From talking to variety of people raging in age, with the exception of young kids (their target audience), they're not interested or invested in this trilogy as they used to be.
  4. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 7, 2016
    It's Star Wars so 9 will probably make at the very least 850mil worldwide... And that's the worst case scenario.

    Although when you think about it ROTJ obviously had build up and ROTS had the birth of Vader while episode 9 has... I dunno, it doesn't really feel like it has anything to conclude.
    JDN21, mlsw and Demsa Aztor like this.
  5. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 3, 2012
    I’ve been a huge SW fan since I was six years old (I’m 32), I don’t have much interest in this franchise moving forward. I will see the films on opening day but I won’t buy the books or action figures anymore.
    MagnarTheGreat and Demsa Aztor like this.
  6. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    And I think that's the point I'm making. People aren't invested in the characters like the used to be. I like Rey, Finn and Poe, but after TLJ, I'm not feeling invested in how they will develop. Sure the last film of the trilogy will make its money, but I think at its own expense.
    I will really looking forward to seeing what they do with Rey, but left disappointed. She didn't seem that much stronger a character IMO.
    That and I feel she hasn't "earned" her way up. Sure, she led a difficult life at first, but I feel she's being handed the keys to the kingdom without earning it, if you know what I mean.
    Then again, I could be wrong.
  7. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    It should be interested what kind of 'hook' for lack of a better word they will use to get audiences back to nine, but I agree that they won't make the money they did. They WILL make money, but we shall see.
    nightangel likes this.
  8. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 12, 2012
    LFL chat about the Fan Backlash Affect is probably something like this:

    "Did you hear the Internet was mad at The Last Jedi?"
    "Yeah, isn't the Internet mad at everything?"
    "True that.
  9. Jamtia

    Jamtia Jedi Knight star 3

    Apr 5, 2016
    When I was 6 going to see the special edition of RotJ, I was hyped to see how they would free Solo and how it would all end. RotS, I felt like we were waiting for a while to see Darth Vader come to life.

    What really do we have to look forward to 9? Rey beating Kylo which is pretty much a guarantee and the first order going down. Yeah we will go see it, but I’m not hyped.

    I did and still am doing pretty well with Last Jedi merchandise from Funko to Black Series. But it now becomes how many of the same Rey and Kylo figures do I gotta keep buying. At least with Power of the Force Luke had all different outfits and there was a Vader that could remove his helmet and hand.

    From a merchandise perspective, the new characters should all have new outfits.
  10. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Nov 21, 2002
    You're betting on a simple black and white ending with the good guys defeating the bad guys. I think there's going to be a big twist. It's what side Ben Solo will be on, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the mutual secrets kept from both sides drive together what only seem to be opposing forces. There's lots of foreshadowing that we're done here.

    Kylo is on thin ice already with Hux, Hux's army, the First Order and Stormtroopers. It's not only the Snoke lie and Hux trying already to shoot Kylo while he's knocked out asleep (echoing Luke's betrayal), but the fact that it was forbidden to speak of Ben Solo's true identity within the First Order, which would surely make him even more distrusted.

    Rey, on the other hand, is hiding her own secrets of how close she is to Ben through their Force connection, but also the story of what happened with Snoke. I'm thinking Leia or the Rebellion hearing of Leia's son/Kylo turning on his master would certainly send shockwaves, but so would that closeness. Some of the Resistance might not look upon that gray area between the two Force users that led them to unite so kindly. Rey might be on thin ice, herself, though Kylo's situation is leading to a full-on coup d'état.

    There's also the fact that Ben doesn't have what he really wants: to be loved, to belong and to not be alone. Hux wants power more than Kylo does. For Ben, it's his feelings of anger and betrayal that are keeping him from the other side, not a quest for power. It's not just how others see him, but Ben seeing himself as a monster that neither side can love. He's too good for the bad guys and too bad for the good guys. His darkness caused his own family to try to kill him and he can't forgive that or the side that reveres Luke as a hero. And yet, he wants to be loved desperately and loved the father he killed to try to make things simple for himself. It just made it worse. It's not just whether or not others can forgive him, but whether he can forgive himself.

    There's also the situation of Leia having to die somehow. They'll no doubt try to have it happen in the most dramatic way possible and it needs to affect her son. We already saw that he is so guilt-stricken and remorseful over killing his father to win Snoke's approval and remove the Light from himself that he couldn't fire upon his mother. He's liable to turn on the First Order for that alone if, say, Hux fires on Leia's ship.

    There's lots of reason to look forward to IX. The backlash is because we don't have the answers and it didn't go the way some wanted. It's because it's not a simple black vs. white story that most of the backlash happened. Many people even misunderstood who the main characters really were after watching TFA. Without the conclusion where it all comes together, those people are thrown off. They'll eventually have to go back to the earlier films to catch the foreshadowing they were ignoring. It's always darkest before the dawn.

    And that's without the will they/don't they that's been set up with Reylo and what exactly is going on with this combined Force connection driving them together, the gray Jedi concept with power derived from both the Light or Dark, making them share abilities (stated by the story group as what Kasdan wrote during the two-way interrogation scene) and whether or not the link still remains (which it was shown to after Snoke's death).
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  11. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Knight star 4

    Apr 19, 2017
    No. J.J. Abrams will effect the development I fully expect to see the creator of the characters give his creations their proper send offs (if Daisy’s excitement is any indication the set will be lively and energetic for the production of Episode IX) I look forward to seeing J.J. finished product.
    jaqen and Darth Smurf like this.
  12. mike778

    mike778 Jedi Knight

    Dec 9, 2012
    I'm 39. I wont be buying the books or the action figures any more. But then I'd be a bit worried if I was because I am 39

    Are the kids buying the action figures ? That's what matters but regardless, there is a whole load of other stuff for kids to buy nowadays so its not exactly a fair comparison. When I was a kid I watched a New Hope non-stop, played with my star wars toys in the bath and knew the film inside out. But the internet didn't exist then. If I as a kid now and New Hope came out I'm not sure it would be the same.

    Re character recognition - I mean seriously, the original characters have been around for 40 years of course they are going to be more well known and loved. The Disney films are (in my opinion) very good. Its not the same as the originals though - that kind of thing doesn't happen very often it was just a freakish you made the perfect films for that time. Just because they haven't done that again doesn't mean they are bad films.

    Maybe they could have got Luke turn up with his light sabre, kill the bad guys and everyone goes home happy. But we've all done that film in our head anyway so what's the point ?

    Re the backlash - they may go slightly more risk averse in Episode 9 but chances are that film was always going to be a bit more warm, fuzzy and fan friendly anyway because its the last one in the trilogy. I'd hope they ignore most of what people are complaining about.
    Yora likes this.
  13. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004

    Which is the worst nightmare for TLJ haters.
  14. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    I'm sure they will ignore those who didn't like it, but I think the backlash is real. They know it even though they will never acknowledge it.
    Despite making over a billion, they expected a lot more cash than they're getting in comparison to TFA which they will never touch.

    If people liked it, that's totally fine. However, the way LFL has sold this trilogy has been linked to getting the OT fans in. Some of us can't help but feel strung along. Hey, I fell for it. Who thought another SW film would come out thirty some odd years later? LFL knew what they were doing. They took these iconic characters, lore, etc., and deconstructed them to open the door for the new characters, which is a real shame. I've said this many, many times. I was for something new and excited about the prospects, but you'd think Lucas film would come up with something creative that wove the OT characters that didn't involve almost completely deconstructing them and allowing the new characters to develop and shine. I've seen too many a franchise water and dumb down iconic characters and the pattern continues.

    That said, there are some good moments in this film that I liked, but too many elements felt parodied and blatantly rid of elements that are so synonymous with Star Wars. Even DR herself gave a very odd answer about liking the film and she clearly didn't. John Boyega also a very qualified answer.. "I need to process it and see it again".

    I did appreciate those moments between Kylo and Luke as well as Luke and Leia. I even liked the way they shot the Kylo/Rey lightsaber scene.

  15. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Jedi Knight star 3

    May 29, 2016
    Don't know what to tell you. It's how you feel and whether you decide you wish to buy them. I'm into the films. I was never into EU and collecting apart from some autographs and I'm always on the hunt for movie posters for my "movie room" that I'm slowly decorating in the loft of my home.

    I'm finding I'm just getting more picky as I'm getting older with film. I'm turning more to independent films for something innovative and with quality. Star Wars I always felt was " a different animal". Now, I see it also fall victim to the Hollywood machine.

  16. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    So you know what "Disney" is thinking, despite acknowledging that they haven't said it? How?

    And please show me a link to some evidence regarding Disney's BO expectations for TLJ. Nobody in the BO thread has been able to provide a shred of proof, but it looks like you have some inside knowledge?
    Yora and Ben-Solo like this.
  17. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 27, 2017
    Lol are you suggesting that they don't care???
    Guys, come on!
    I like the movie and wish all the best to the franchise, but this is just nonsense. Of course they care about it!! I'm not even saying that the box office went worse than predicted, I don't have the basis to tell that for sure. But don't expect that they will just be like "yeah, we got 49 % in the audience score of rotten tomatoes... whatever, no big deal, fans are always like that."

    And let me stress it, I'm fine with them taking risks, I would even say that I'm positively surprised, but we should be objective.
  18. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

    I don't believe Disney-LFL, the biggest entertainment company in American history, is worried whatoever about a small, vocal contingency of diehard SW nerds raging on the internet.

    In fact, it's quite the opposite. Lucasfilm was well aware of the the film they were dropping. They knew it would challenge, that it was designed to be a more layered, less "fun" experience than TFA. And they greenlit it anyway. And were so pleased with the film that they gave it's creator an entire trilogy before it even dropped.

    "Disney" is so, so much more than gets described in these foolish online forum battles. Nobody at Disney-LFL is sitting around worried about SW diehards when they've got the 2017 number 1 and number 2 films in the world.

    If the diehards had been able to translate their displeasure into making TLJ a flop, THEN Disney-LFL would be concerned. Too bad they weren't able to.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  19. NHB0M

    NHB0M Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 13, 2016
    Finn. The first friend she made. The person she spent most of TFA with.

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    jaqen, CosmicDust and IlhamKamaruddin like this.
  20. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 22, 2015
    Can we agree on stopping that kind of comments:
    - we don't know how many they are
    - how do we know all of them are nerds? Let's treat each other with respect
    - We will see the effect earliest at the next movies, or Disney will feel it in the merchandize sales. Everyone wanted to see the movie (See opening weekend). How many of them will stay away in the future or will reduce their viewings ... well, a general prediction is yet impossible
  21. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 27, 2017
    They take care of any little detail. I really don't see how you can claim that they didn't have a long discussion about the surprisingly low rating of the audience score. Everybody is talking about it, even outside the circle of hardcore fans, and you think that they didn't take that aspect under serious consideration?
    Then who knows? Maybe they knew about it since the beginning and everything is just going according to their plans, I can consider that possibility, but IMO it's really absurd to think that they just ignored it.

    We can't be sure about that. We don't know if they were expecting something more or not.
    Darth Smurf likes this.
  22. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    Let's remove the Star Wars filter from this.

    Prior to TLJ dropping, the number one 2017 film in the world was Beauty and the Beast. And, unlike TLJ, this is an actual, direct Disney production.

    It's made less money than TLJ, has lower IMDB user ratings, and with considerable less critical acclaim.

    Do any of you, who truly believe Disney is concerned about TLJ, think they're concerned about BatB as well?

    You're asking for objectivity, while passing off the RT scores as overall audience scores?

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  23. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 27, 2017
    You can't make this comparison, more or less like you can't make the comparison with TFA.
    I probably didn't make myself clear, when I say "concerned" I don't mean that they risk the bankruptcy, or even a financial flop. But if they see that there is the risk that they make less money than what they could make in the best scenario, you can bet that they're going to be concerned. Since low audience rating might, potentially, be somehow connected with the performance in terms of box office, you can bet that they will have a discussion about it. I'm honestly a bit surprise that I have to insist on this.
    Having a discussion does not mean that they don't sleep at night, but denying that it's an issue is... I don't know, just wrong.
  24. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    Again, where are you getting your evidence that the RT audience scores reflect the general audience scores?

    Or that any major studios care about it?

    And, before you take the RT scores too seriously, have you read none of the in depth analysis suggesting that it was purposefully bombed?

    Why can't I make this comparison? Is Disney worried about BatB or not?
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  25. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 27, 2017
    Please, why do you force this conversation to be more difficult than what it could be?
    Why can't you make the comparison with TFA? Because it would be unfair. So why can't you make the comparison between a SW movie and any other movie? Because it would be unfair as well.

    You perfectly know this, you don't need me to tell you. The annoying thing, if you allow me to say that, is that you do great analysis on some aspects but then I have to explain you obvious things.

    Moreover, if you carefully read what I wrote, I said "low audience rating might, potentially, be somehow connected with the performance in terms of box office". Am I saying that the movie was a flop? No, never said that. I am just saying a very simple thing: that it is something they had to discuss. I didn't even say that they will change anything in the next movie. I can't know it. But no. You insist that for them nothing happened, it's like that rating didn't exist. All the articles talking about the backlash? Irrelevant, like if they've never been written. Not even worth a discussion :(
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