ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

You know what, I stopped reading after this point. Clearly you're trying to make this personal, and it's not worth the effort.

So, you win.

 

You stopped reading for that??
Aren't you a bit too sensitive? It wasn't even remotely close to a personal attack. It wasn't offensive by any means. Anyway, fine for me, do as you wish. Peace.

 

Yes, I stopped. That's not "sensitivity". That's a realization that this entire tangent is pointless, was going in an odd direction, and wasn't worth continuing.

 

They don't look at so called fan backlash - are you kidding ,

TLJ is has positive reviews from all corners that matter....

 

It probably has LFL a little dismayed, possible uncertain how to proceed. Over the past year I've seen a growing resentment (on the internet) towards TFA and KK especially about playing things safe. About a month before TLJ was released, KK was interviewed on the Star Wars show, wherein she said something about doing new things and taking risks with the setting, about how they following what Lucas did essentially, and the youtube comments were toxic to put it mildly. And all this time, LFL and KK knew what they had created with TLJ, probably getting through the vitriol spat in their direction with an attitude of 'hey, they just haven't seen this new film yet'. Obviously, it hasn't been the reaction they were hoping for.

So there's a minority fan backlash against TLJ, but what can they really do about that? How do they react to that given the history of SW fans moaning about every direction they take? How do they react to 'we don't like this' when there's a schism in the fandom? What lessons truly can be learned? Fan A doesn't think this is Star Wars and professes to hate everything it does while Fan B thinks it fits right in and loves it.

At this point, there's no pleasing everyone. (I have a feeling that Solo might get a much warmer reception generally, even though the same 'flaws' identifed with the ST films will appear, just like they do with Rogue One. The non-saga films get a pass I suppose).

 

fans having any input in a film is just a bad idea. JJ should go with his gut and dont change something just becuase people thought the last movie was bad.

 

I don't know. I don't have an easy answer. I was just saying, and it seems to me that you agree on this, that it's absurd to claim that they don't care. You are right when you say that fans are always unhappy, but it's also fair to say that, in this particular case, the division among fans has been particularly strong. And it's obvious that they had a discussion about it. They care about details that are much more irrelevant. Then, I absolutely do not exclude that at the end they might have concluded that they're just going fine, but saying that on their point of view it's like if nothing happened is absurd.

 

Meanwhile RJ, Pablo and other story groupers sure aren't reflecting attitudes that signify fears over big, bad, mean Star Wars diehards.

In fact, quite the opposite. The gist I've gathered boils down to "Star Wars fans gonna be Star Wars fan; SSDY".

 

That 20 + minute vid on youtube talking about all the easter eggs from TLJ screamed damage control.

 

OK, sure.

 

I mean they didn't do one for TFA. So what makes TLJ so special, oh right it's the enormous fan backlash.

 

My guess is that JJ is in the process on tearing up his script and he's now lurking here to gather ideas for the next movie. What I'm saying is it's going to be revealed that Rey was created from Darth Vader's DNA.

 

I think it just screamed the usual wanting to share easter eggs with fans like in rogue one or the force awakens.

Disney may look at some of the trends and course adjust either their marketing tactics or new future ideas for side stories, but this won't affect IX.

Given Kathleen kennedy's career and successful collaborations, not to mention disney's obvious investment in the franchise (both financial and wanting to keep Star Wars fresh for new generations) -- I feel Star Wars will be in good capable hands for many years to come.

 

I don't recall them doing easter egg videos for TFA at all.

 

Also, Rian looked nervous and uncomfortable during parts of that DGA panel. I’m sure they’re feeling the heat.

 

They didn’t.

 

Honestly, I don't think that a few angry people online are going to have that much of an effect. By all credible accounts, it's just a cross section that happens to be screaming the loudest and getting attention because it's fans hating Star Wars (which, honestly, is nothing new).

 

Current user scores update (January 14)
Douban (China) 7.3 out of 10
Allocine (France): 2.9 out of 5
Yahoo! Movies (Japan): 3.72 out of 5 (ties Attack of the Clones)
MyMovies (Italy): 2.56 out of 5
Daum (S. Korea): 6.0 out of 10
Filmaffinity (Spain): 6.3 out of 10
IMDb: 7.5 out of 10 (3rd worst rated SW live-action movie above Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace)*
Metacritic: 4.6 out of 10
Rotten Tomatoes: 3.0 out of 5 (49% liked)

*IMDb weights its user scores as well. Here's the current unweighted scores:

1) The Empire Strikes Back 8.6 (8.8 weighted)
2) A New Hope 8.6 (8.7 weighted)
3) Return of the Jedi 8.3 (8.4 weighted)
4) The Force Awakens 8.0 (8.0 weighted)
5) Rogue One 7.9 (7.8 weighted)
6) Revenge of the Sith 7.6 (7.6 weighted)
7) The Last Jedi 7.2 (7.5 weighted)
8) Attack of the Clones 6.7 (6.6 weighted)
9) The Phantom Menace 6.5 (6.5 weighted)

Box office: Deadline projection for this weekend puts TLJ at 12.51% behind Rogue One for the (Monday to Sunday) week and only $28 million (8%) ahead of Rogue One and $233 million (-38.57%) behind TFA for its whole run minus the opening weekend (the opening weekend is a function of marketing and brand popularity before word of mouth kicks in). A SW episode should never nearly be doing the same business or worse than a spin-off at any point in the time line.

 

It’s much more than a few.

 

My point still stands; it's not a complete cross reference of the movie's (or franchise's ) entire audience, just a percentage. And on the internet, these groups almost always seem bigger than they really are.

Besides, we've been down this road before. There have been unpopular Star Wars movies before and the franchise still managed to continue on.

 

Let's say they will.
Question is how?
I mean, it's not that they can resurrect Luke, or give him a different story arc.
That is done.

And in all honestly I hope they won't resurrect Snoke or change who Rey is.
It would make TLJ a farce. Thus worst regardless if you liked it or not.
No.

What I think is that JJ has to improve what's given. No matter what we think about TLJ.

For me, the positive thing, is that I liked better the charaterizations of Rey, Finn and Poe in TFA.
Kylo, to me, is now a little bit messy... so there's the chance to fix better (in a more coherent way)
his arc.
And i think there's still the chance - If they want to - to explain better Rey's powers.

Because what some of the critics are missing is that there is an explanation of her powers in TLJ.
It is said, that she has to "balance" Kylo's powers.
The more he is strong in the dark side, the more she has to be in light side.

The problem I have with this explanation is that I find it the less satisfying they could have came up with.

It's middle finger to ep. 1-6.

Makes no sense, to me not because it is 100% illogic. But because it diminishes whatever
it's been told so far.
And that's my biggest complaint (together with Luke trying/thinking to kill joung Ben).

Because... if that is what the Force does everytime there is an imbalance
then why there was a chosen one prophecy at all?
That is how the Force works.
There no reason to prophesy a Chosen One.
A "space" Jesus.
He's not that special at all...

Unless you say, there are several Chosen Ones...
something they will never say, or make Canon because it will make even more explicit
than it already is that 1-6 were a farce.

Now, if they find a creative way to link her and her powers (very creative way) to the Chosen One
something that IMO they should have done/planned the day they started to think about the ST
(if they wanted the Skywalker Saga to still be something like TLOTR, ASOIAF and not a serie of movie... like Rockie)
to the fact that Yoda - all of a sudden - agreed to the idea that Jedi has to end (perhaps he knows something
Luke and us don't know yet), then you may give a far more compelling explaination of Rey's power/fate
and you may do what a Saga Finale should do: to meet the beginning.

But... it's not a given that they will, backlash or not.

 

I'm not much of a fan of treating balance that way either, but at least it works a whole lot better than what was in TFA. Rey growing in strength due to Kylo Ren growing is a somehwat plausible approach, certainly much better than everything just suddenly plopping into existance like in TFA. It's not the best fitt with the rest of the saga, but that problem was created by TFA, and there wasn't a whole lot that could have explained it in a proper way without disagreeing with earlier movies.

I don't see how linking Rey to the story of the chosen one could have worked in any way. All it would have done is cheapen that entire story. Anakin is the chosen one, he returned balance by destroying the Sith. It's bad enough that they screwed up balance in TFA (and didn't fix it in TLJ), it doesn't need any more of that.


In general, there is no way any "backlash" will cause changes for IX. No one in their right mind lets the creative process gets influenced by what some fans want, it only screws up everything. Johnson was completely right about that one. He could have done something that may have been more cookie cutter, something that everyone could have lived with to some extend, but that would have meant trying absolutely nothing new, playing it safe and not being creative. As soon as you try things, there are fans who will dislike it. If Johnson had done something more in line with what those who disliked TLJ wanted, he would have offended another part of the fanbase. Star Wars is just way too big to please everyone. All you can do is stick to your guns and deliver the story you want to tell. Just like George Lucas has always done.

Seeing how Johnson gets to develop an entire trilogy, Lucasfilm seems to be very happy with what he delivered. IX will always be different, because it is the end of the trilogy not the middle-part, and because JJ Abrams isn't Rian Johnson. That doesn't mean that they will somehow make drastic changes to appease anyone, it just means that someone else being in charge will automatically lead to a different outcome.

 

This sums it all up perfectly.

[/thread]

 

I agree with this. All they can do - IMO - is make the film (s) they believe in and trust that each will find its fans.

I think they'll look at the criticism each receives and see if there's anything they agree with and feel is worth taking onboard.

With TFA, I feel they probably agreed that they slightly played it too safe.
With TLJ, I think they might look at the humour.

I think more Luke was always part of the plan, as was more context of Ben Solo's corruption by Snoke. It may be that they the approach both angles through the filter of the reaction to TLJ, without changing the main story choices. But I think both those things would have happened anyway. RJ always said that TLJ would give some answers but not all the answers. Personally, I think there is a way to thread the needle, but I think this was always on the cards. Part of the problem is that some people are judging the ST and the ST story and backstory as if there wasn't an entire new episode to come. It's like judging the PT or the OT after AOTC and ESB. There's still a hell of a lot of story and character growth and context to come.

But having said that - no matter what they do, some will always hate it, and I certainly don't think you can approach the writing of it afraid of the most hyperbolic and strident outrage. That would lead to creative stagnation. I think they will have factored this in, but I do think they will be a little taken aback by just how violently some have rejected the Luke arc - not because the starting point isn't shocking, it is - but because I genuinely believe (and I think they thought this too) that the return and sacrifice he makes is about as true to the character and the Jedi themselves as they could have written. I'm not saying it's the only way they could have gone, but I do think it is written from a place of love and respect that aims for catharsis whilst teeing things up in a bold way for the character in 9. But it's clearly not landing as intended for some. It's not like TFA, where TLJ was already written before release. 9 is still being written. I can definitely see them taking the teases RJ left us with and trying to write a way through that wins back some of the Luke fans who are angry (but still open minded) in 9, without them drastically changing their original thinking. And I kind of thing Carrie's passing makes that even more likely. The trick there though remains not diminishing the spotlight on Rey and her arc. But there are absolutely ways to do that.

 

One way you can tell that Disney-LFL isn't altering course based off fan expectations?

Luke's death would've been very easy to eliminate, particularly in light of Carrie's passing. They could've, and some will say should've, anticipated that without Carrie's Leia as a major hook for IX, leaving Luke alive would've appeased a lot of fans.

Yet what did they do? Kill Luke off anyway. Know that the general public would be exiting TLJ with all of the originals effectively dead (no matter whether Leia lives or not).

Because TLJ was largely about making a radical departure from Star Wars expectations and establishing Disney's take on the series. The past is being reconciled and laid to rest. They can't count on the Big 3 anymore.

There were so many safer choices LFL could've made. They chose not to make them.