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ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BalanceOfTheForce, Dec 18, 2017.

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  1. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Star Wars cartoons are not that bad.
     
  2. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    John Campea just made that argument on his show. He says that Disney should be willing to sacrifice a portion of the old fans in order to gain an even bigger portion of new fans, which in buisness is called a "burn rate". I just find it strange that this argument is coming up now, after the OT has, for all intents and purposes, been torn down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  3. Darth Voorhees

    Darth Voorhees Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 7, 2017
    The thought of Disney willing to "sacrifice" a "potion" of old fans is sick.
     
  4. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    They get a wider audience that way.

    Also, dude, it's fiction and a business. Its all about money on Disney's end.
     
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  5. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    You can't please everyone in a fanbase. Sad fact of like and the franchise will understandably choose to do what will appeal to the widest audience. I also find that the fans that are vocal about being discriminated against often seem to have unreasonable wishes or are extremely closed-minded about what they will accept. Not always, but sometimes, and I think that trying to appease such people is a fool's errand.
     
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  6. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2015
    I think they know that every SW movie -saga movies- will be met with hostility by a portion of the fans. SW is too big, everyone has different opinion of what it should be.

    Had TLJ told a different story in a different way you can bet it still would have outraged the fans, even if for different reasons. It's easy to find something to trash down in evzry scene of a fantasy movie when you dont like the direction it takes.

    If JJ tries to move SW forward he'll be accused of ruining the franchise. If he plays it safer people will say it's an unoriginal corporate cash machine. Even a hypothetic middle ground will be criticized because Luke this or Luke that, Finn this or Finn that. Too much Kylo, not enough Kylo. Too SW-y, not enough SW-y....in these days of nipticking and glorfied hating and lets-overthink-every-scene-of-a-movie-because-i-enjoy-making-top10-list-of-plot-holes-and-show-the-world-how-much-i-hate-something you just cant win with such a big cultural colossus that is SW.

    I can guarantee there ll never be again a trilogy/saga of SW film that will meet a positive consensus from the fans. The OT will always be seen as the satisfying SW....the PT, ST, SST (if it happens), RJs trilogy etc...they're bound to have their fans and haters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  7. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    Very true. The search for the holy grail (the SW film that everyone loves) continues (forever).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    My take on the Skywalker saga would be having Skywalker descendants as protagonists, keep the Force and lightsabers as links to the previous films, but change most of the visual aesthetics (with a few exceptions) in order to make things feel different. GL seems to have similar ideas as well. Disney did it the other way around, though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  9. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2015
    And then you'd have a significant part of fandom that will scream: "cant we just move past the skywalkers family?" or/and "doesnt look like Star Wars"....see, cant win. What will please some people will be disliked by others whatever they do with the franchise.
     
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  10. Shadao

    Shadao Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 31, 2017
    I thought Lucas making it clear the main saga is about the Skywalker Family as well as the existence of the Anthology would have pacified those who wanted a non-Skywalker series.

    Regardless, it's not completely hopeless as TFA didn't get as much nasty backlash as TLJ did. So clearly, something worked in TFA that didn't in TLJ.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  11. Lucillalin

    Lucillalin Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 10, 2016
    Makes sense for business point of view, but I was raised to dislike and boycott Disney, so my default mode with them is very very critical. They could also keep in mind that with family merchandise like Star Wars you sort of need the older fans to introduce the stuff to the next generation.
     
  12. mlsw

    mlsw Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 30, 2017
    But there's something I cannot understand if that is Disney's reasoning...
    I mean... they wanted TFA to look "nostalgic"...

    That is why I think there's something we don't know or something they haven't foreseen coming with TLJ.

    I'd say.. or Disney and LF are far more less than it seems on the same page...
    and if so... I'd say that TLJ is a LF movie, while TFA was the Disney movie.
    KK wanted RJ, she wanted Miller and Lloyd for Solo and Trevorrow for IX.
    Of course no production problems with 8, so no "disney" intervent, but everytime there was a problem
    then... safe choice.
    To some degrees it was the same with Arndt-> JJ/Kasdan

    And/or they (all?) really believed that TLJ wasn't going to loose at portion of fandom.
    Doesn't matter how large.

    .On the contrary: I think they believed that the movie would have gain segment of audience
    without loosing other..

    I meam... not that IMDB has to be taken as the gospel...
    But I was looking at the composition of the audience score http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/ratings?ref_=tturv_ql_4
    basically those who loved most the movie are male and famale under 18 years of age;
    and then women.
    The women score is always 0.4 superior than that of the men...
    But the point is... that the number of women voting is always equal to only the 10% of that of the men in the same age range...
    So, was it worth? Because to appeal women they way they did, they made a movie that the
    largest part (10/1 in proportion) of their fandom didn't like as much as women did...

    Again, not that those scores are the gospel, but they may tell something interesting

    My take, is that they really believed they made a movie everyone would have love in the end...

    They believed to appeal the woman audience (I believe more with the Rey-Kylo plot than with the women in charge)
    They really believed that the last duel Luke/Kylo would have been enough to put all Luke's fan on board
    Because... they really believed that was really the best send off for him... the most powerfull jedi thing ever seen etc...
    And that is what many fan saw/took too... but for many, it wasn't enough.
    I still think the design of the pretorian guards, the notion of the force as symbolized by the Rey-Kylo powers
    balancing it, the white/crystal foxes... all those things were put there to appeal China and the easter audience...

    So yeah, I think they made a movie they believed that everybody could have love...
    But I'm not sure Disney and LF are on the same page...
    Time will tell, I guess...
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  13. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    Exactly. The things the haters hate most about TLJ are very often the things its fans like most.

    Where do you go with that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  14. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Even the most “loved” Star Wars film ESB has its detractors.
     
  15. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Superb assessment.
     
  16. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I mean it does not matter if you think that story pitch is insane. What is done is done. Now it is weather you think they should change anything in Episode 9 or not.
     
  17. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2015
    IMO, since not everybody will like it no matter what, stick to your vision. Whatever TFA and TLJ established they have to stick to it. Dont tone down what you want to do because if you do this you lose on all fronts. If JJ continues RJ works and shakes up the status quo too he only takes the risk of making a great film and please those liked TLJ. If TPTB wants to go back to something simpler, more nostalgic, then haters still gonna hate and fans of the ST will be disappointed.
     
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  18. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    There's nothing to "undo" from 9 that wasn't already baked in to 8. So, if you want to bring back some of the unhappy Luke fans, the groundwork is already laid for that (who those will are able to keep an open-end) within 8 - ie Luke will return in a positive (albeit spiritual) way, and we get more context on Kylo's turn which makes clear how Snoke got his hooks into the kid (and Luke's other students). But that's what I'd be doing anyway, even for the people that love Luke's arc. Effectively, you show in IX how Luke's sacrifice was not for nothing and you build a broader picture of the guy we saw in act 4, vs the disillusioned exile we saw in the first 3 acts.

    The one thing I wouldn't do is panic and make Rey Related. But I don't think they're going to do that. In terms of the rest of the piece though, we'll get a less introspective and less challenging adventure, and I think that was always going to be the case, and they won't be making the same mistakes as TFA did either. So I can easily see 9 being the "best" for some. For the 8 detractors, it'll "fix" some of what they didn't like in 8 (though this will just be the natural flow in the story IMO) and for those that love 8, 9 will (hopefully) take the characters that 8 deepened and follow them on the adventure that resolves everything in a more upbeat and clear cut way than the murkier philosophies (in the best sense) of 8.
     
  19. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2017
    I doubt they will back track on anything, but Rey’s parentage is one massive let down.

    To move beyond the OT they could have (and I think should have) set the ST at least 100 years in the future: the OT characters are all dead after living happily ever after - I think they earnt it.

    Doing that would have provided a clean slate... Roll on Ep10!
     
  20. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    Disney had a blank slate when they started. By all means, tell a different story and focus on different characters. But if you're going forward with the Skywalker saga (which they did) that's the way I'd do it. I suspect they took the saga route because they wanted the OT3 back for some nostalgia cash, but weren't sure about how to proceed with their story. Why not use GL's treatments, then? Instead, there were a thousand different visions going in a thousand different directions, and we ended up with a Skywalker saga without a Skywalker protagonist and the lives of the OT3 ruined. Great.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  21. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    They did use the broad strokes of George's treatments. All the basic elements remain.

    A jedi killer that betrayed Luke, wiped out his academy and drive a wedge between the big three.
    Luke in exile, haunted by his past.
    A scavenger seeking him out and drawing him back to the fight.
    A solo turning to the dark side.
    A neo-Empire ruled by an uber villain.


    Its just how those were deployed that has changed. And that would be the case had George remained in play. Let's not act like the ST would be universally praised if George had written and directed them. Everything he's touched since 1983 has been divisive to some extent. The Ewoks, the SE's, the PT, Indy IV. The idea he would have given us an ST that everyone loved seems to have total amnesia in regards his latter day output.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  22. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 23, 2003
    Looking at this from a historical perspective, the PT films received a backlash, were divisive and arguably "sacrifced a portion of the fanbase". What effect did this have on the follow-ups? AOTC went more for nostalgia and fan-service than TPM did, and then ROTS goes even further. Binks was sidelined. Was there more to that?

    But those films had 3 years between them and there were gaps between them in writing. With the LFL of today there is a lot of production overlap on these movies. Practically speaking, TFA and TLJ were developed together. TLJ could not have been developed with the feedback of TFA in mind. Episode 9, by happenstance, appears to be on a delayed track compared to where TLJ was with TFA, so at the very least, Episode 9 (and JJ in particular) can incorporate feedback of both TFA and TLJ.
     
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  23. C Creepio

    C Creepio Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 25, 1999
    I'll tell you this - if they would have made Rey be Luke's daughter I would have been PISSED!!!!!!!

    So yeah, no matter what decisions they make, someone is going to be mad.
     
  24. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Not sure I'm sold on the idea of a continuation with future Skywalker descendants (given that I don't want Kylo to survive the sequels), but I do like the idea of future movies showing technology and designs evolving into different things than we've seen so far (as long as it looks like it's part of the same world, e.g. not how JJ Abrams Star Trek movies look compared to the rest of the franchise.
     
  25. mlsw

    mlsw Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 30, 2017
    Exactly. I'll add to list Snoke.
    I really hope they won't resurrect him as well as I hope they won't change who Rey is.
    One may like or not what TLJ has done with those issues... but change them now will be silly.
    The worst thing you may do.
    And sure you cannot give Luke a second "actual" life.

    But as said a few pages ago, JJ has to work on and improve the things set by TLJ blacklash or not.
    And he also has the chance to "answwer" some of the questions he put on the table with 7.
    And I think he will and he would have done anyway, just because of the "blacklash" he personally got.

    That said, I really hope, that there could be something more significant to explain Rey's powers and "fate".
    I'm fine with her being no-related, not that much with the you're powerful because Kylo is powerful...
    But that is me. It's not that is un-logical. To me is just uninteresting... and I still think it doesn't match well (at all)
    with the enphasis we've got from 1 to 6 not on Balance but on the prophecy.
    That said, they may very well keep on ignoring that...
    It may be not the best storytelling ever, but it may be.

    I think there will be any "reaction"... it will be on the marketing campain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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