ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

Batman murdering a bunch of people is completely different than A-Wings being used to escort a bunch of bombers. That's not even the same application of lore, since Batman in BvS was a deviant adaptation of source material where that was the first appearance of that incarnation of the character, rather than a case of not sticking to the nuts-and-bolts of ship speed within the same continuity or something? I'm not even sure what the issue with the A-Wings are. It's not even a remotely comparable circumstance.

TFA also did not have the competition that TLJ had. Nobody saw Jumanji being nearly as successful as it was, nor did anyone predict The Greatest Showman would have the legs it did. Also factoring in the first-to-second film drop off that I'm sure you've been told about/ignored fifty billion times.

 

^^ Forget the A-wings. Batman murdering people is just as wrong in the lore and characterization as Luke attempting to murder his nephew.

 

But he... didn’t? He turned on the lightsaber through instinct without actually realizing what he was doing. He said as much. Both Luke and the film tell us this.

 

yep, have people really watched the movie? Luke never tried to kill Ben. He considered it yes -realizing it could be the dawn of a new era of darkness- but never actually attempted to, that's quite two VERY different things. Didn't Luke consider killing his father for a brief instant, as he was lying down defeated, before throwing away his lightsaber?

 

That's probably a wise course of action. Wish some less filtered professionals on Twitter could learn that lesson.

 

Admittedly I didn't like TLJ, but agree with the above in that Rian especially needs to tone down on his defense of the movie. It's not changing anyone's minds and I think it's a bad look for him, especially since he keeps saying how confident he is in his decisions.

Twitter comebacks rarely scream confidence, and in interviews he keeps referring to the fact that it was a completely clean slate between TFA and TLJ, which only makes fans like myself more confused that there isn't a real plan for the trilogy.

Hate will die down - it usually does, especially if they and many fans are so confident in the movie. Just wait it out and don't give more material for us hater to utilize. Kind of like "right to remain silent because anything you say can be used against you in a court of law" type situation.

 

You can look up what makes a functioning story if you're curious. As for established lore, I don't know what to tell you. It has nothing to do with whether I like it. Its just what has been established before. The battle of yavin is a clear example of xwings providing cover for y-wings. This is canon in both the film and the EU. Y-wings make the trench run while xwings keep the fighters off of them. By the time of ROTJ, B-wings were added to to the bomber class while A-wings were added to the fighter class.

The dreadnought was left defenseless after a single xwing took out all of their surface canons somehow. Any commander with half a brain would've simply moved the cruiser in order to stall the bombers. Of course this is sidestepping the question of just how threatening is this "fleet killer" if a single small fighter can render it defenseless. Seriously, if you want to talk about my gripes with the film, we can do this in a different thread. I've already said what I think in regards to the question in the OT.

 

Odd that a lot of people who criticize film for a living walked away with the exact opposite impression.

But, you know, since you said it's a "fact" that TLJ isn't a good film, they all should pack it in and call their careers a day.

 

If Ben had done something to even warrant that type of response, it would have worked better. Also Luke contemplated killing his father, the same father who murdered Obi-wan, an enforcer of great suffering, tortured Leia and threatened to turn her if Luke didn’t join him. That made sense with him contemplating it. That he went so far as to ignite a lightsaber on his sleeping nephew who had yet to do anything is quite different. Then he made no attempt to save Ben or his other fallen students. If he saw Ben commit heinous acts and couldn’t bring himself to kill him, even knowing that Ben won’t turn back then I could somewhat understand his exile. As it stands, his character was done a great injustice and I hope that he can be rectified in the subsequent sequel.

 

He. Did. Not. Attempt. To. Murder. Ben.

That is just flat wrong. Disagreeing is one thing. Misrepresenting the film is another.

 

Meh. I'd rather see him believe in what he did, and push back against the haters who are either ridiculously over the top, or just flat out wrong on some aspects of the film.

So many of the "haters" are just flat out dismissive and disrespectful, it's good they get some healthy push back.

 

I have seen some online users who complaints reveal that they're not interesting in a critical examination, much less giving the movie a fair chance. This little gem of a YouTube "review," for example says nothing factual about the movie (in fact, the "everything you said in that sentence was wrong" quote is inadequate to describe how off-base it is), but a lot about the nature of the person who compiled it (the backlog of videos on the channel suggests that this is a chronic thing for this person).

When someone is so out of touch with reality like this, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to set the record straight. However, I wonder if it's better to just ignore the tolls and let them burn themselves out. When you can tell that someone's not interested in an honest discussion but just vomiting whatever crap they've got in their heads, engaging with them isn't going to change their minds and will only annoy people. At the end of the day, online haters don't get the last word on what the public likes or doesn't like.

 

I'm not a massive fan of the film myself, but i've been pretty shocked by just how needlessly personal and vitriolic some of the criticism of Rian himself has been. It's a shame that people seem unable to 'play the ball, not the player'.

 

Considering this is the franchise that spawned the old classic Lucas bashing (which is still a favorite among popular Internet critics, some of whom are ironically defending TLJ from the hate), I am not surprised. If there's anything that Rian Johnson needs to do in the future, it's that making Star Wars films is bound to have these kinds of fandom risks... and it's best not to aggravate or give people a reason to continue hating this 2-month old movie for years to come. Engaging with the fandom can take a toll on people like Rian Johnson and if they have a breakdown, the trolls and haters will celebrate to everyone else's dismay.

And I think that in the future, Disney and Lucasfilm will have to think about other iconic heroes such as Superman and Optimus Prime, and learn as to why these classic heroes are not so lightly changed by other filmmakers lest they want a backlash. There is a pattern after all. Man of Steel created a more angsty Superman, fans were divided in half. Transformers killed off Optimus Prime in the 1986 movie, children lock themselves into their bedroom and hate his replacement, Rodimus Prime. Heck, killing off the T. rex in Jurassic Park III and replacing it with Spinosaurus was met with an uproar of hatred from the fandom. Clearly, iconic characters are not so easily disposed of.

 

Not really. Static heroes are boring. There’s no room for growth because they must remain pure and never divert from what “fans” expect of them and how dare they try and tell a story that doesn’t fall into the lines what should be. Reminds me a lot of Misery by Stephen King. It’s the reason why many people feel you can’t do a good Superman film because he’s generally a static character that is the embodiment of good - never conflicted, always positive etc etc. it’s hard to tell a compelling story of the character is not challenged and the audience can identify with that feeling of being challenged.

Lots of people loved what they did with Luke as well. It’s Star Wars, it’s been dealing with fan divisions at the very least since the prequels and some would say since TESB. They took some creative decisions that didn’t sit well with some fans and that’s fine. I’d rather them branch out and tell the stories they want to tell instead of being bound to “well some people might not like this.”

Rian is also free to do as he please if he so choose to interact with the fan base and I personally think it’s great. He has very reasonable discussions with those that are considerate with their criticisms. He shouldn’t have to **** himself away in case he upsets some parts of a the fan base. He seems to be dealing with it just fine.

Not many iconic heroes left to include aside from maybe Lando anyway. The focus should be on our new heroes and their journey.

 

I'm surprised that Pablo was surprised. He interacts with the fans more than anyone.

 

DP

 

That's a broad generalization of Superman's character. Superman can be a complicated and more human character while still retaining his optimism and nobleness. It's just that Man of Steel went into the more bleaker areas that overrode people's desire to see Superman being... well Superman. There's a reason why Wonder Woman was well-received by audiences even though she has the same optimism and positivity as Superman. It's quite clear that Lucasfilm struck a significant wrong cord regarding with Luke. Something that not even Anakin or Han Solo has ever experienced. And considering that Luke is the main hero of OT and subsequently the entire Star Wars, it would not be wise to ignore possible consequences of TLJ especially when it bit Hasbro's wallets and Warner Bros' DCEU.

And really, I'm only offering the best advice for Rian Johnson when regarding the fanbase. It's far too tempting and easy for social confrontations to go wrong.

 

It’s you’re opinion that they struck a wrong chord with Luke. There are absolutely those that agree with you but there are just as many that liked the direction his character took. You’re argument that going in the direction they did bit them in the wallet doesn’t hold when it was were the top grossing film of 2017 and in the top 10 of all time. Likewise go back to the prequels when there was maybe a comparable level of “backlash” where people claimed it was the end of Star Wars. Star Wars did fine then and will do fine now.


My point still stands about legacy characters too. Whose left outside of Lando? Han and Luke are dead, Leia won’t be in 9. Billy is unlikely to reprise Lando due to his health. If they do a Kenobi film he has to fit the mold of a character between ROTS/ANH and Han can be a wildcard so long as he likes up with ANH. Worrying about legacy characters at this stage is really a moot point.

Again Rian is a grown adult that has faced criticism before, albeit not to this extent as I’m sure no amount of warning from George or whoever could safely prep someone for Star Wars fandom. He’s had death threats and the like and he doesn’t seem shaken. He’s dealing with it just fine and with class.

 

Best for Rian, JJ and any other SW writers/directors to totally discard what the diehard fans are screeching about on any given day and just makes films that they're really passionate about.

That'll keep the quality high. And there will be more than enough people still interested in quality, interesting Star Wars films to negate the tantrum brigade.

 

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I agree they should tell the story they want to tell.

Listening to fans will actually create plot holes which everyone is now complaining about.

Sometimes i wonder when ESB was released , did fan wanted to hear the "i am your father twist" or they complained about ruining of star wars ?

 

Considering that tantrum brigade can't even agree on "what went wrong" (their demands contradict each other), pleasing one portion of the tantrum brigade would automatically displease all other portions of the said brigade, not to mention majority that actually enjoyed the movie (yes, shockingly, majority actually did, they are just not as loud as the tantrum crowd). So an exercise in futility. Studios are way smarter than that.

Moreover, TLJ was approved by KK, Iger and executive producer JJ, so it isn't like Rian forced a movie they disagreed with on them. They loved it so much they hopped aboard his new trilogy train. critics agreed with TPTP in their praise of the movie. So whatever displeased some die-hard fans on one side, and didn't connect with GA the way TFA did on the other, is part of the risk that higher-ups took willingly.

 

Jumanji = competition for a star wars move.

Ok so since we're gonna act like petty children over people having different opinions about a movie, should the "tantrum brigade" call everyone who loved it, the "stockholm brigade?". This is stupid. I'm out.

 

Pandering never turns out well because:

a) butterfly effect. If fans, lets say, demand that a small character is promoted into one of leads, the result often happens at the expense of another existing character. Example: some fans were demanding that Poe gets more screen time in VIII cause he's "awesome", "cool", "charismatic", whatever. So LF expanded his screen time...at the expense of Finn. There's no question that Poe headlines one of 2 main plots while Finn is in the subplot within that plot in TLJ. So Poe got the advantage. Change one thing change everything. I bet fans didn't count on that.

b) fans still don't write the story so they don't know how their demand will turn out. Example: Poe is made incompetent, stupid and unlikable in TLJ. I see a lot of complaints about that from his fans. So not as cool and awesome as in TFA. The price to pay for expanded screen time and character development. I bet fans didn't count on that either.

Point is, that's a lot of unhappy people in the wake of Poe's screen time expansion - unhappy Finn fans cause Finn is a supporting character in Poe's story, and is in the subplot that tops the list of complaints; unhappy Poe fans cause he didn't come off as well as in TFA; unhappy fans who don't care about Poe but were forced to sit through his scenes. Just a fresh example of what happens when studio tries to do one fandom a favor. Nobody ended up happy.

So pandering to whoever in the wake of TLJ wouldn't make anyone happy either for reasons listed above. Changes don't happen in a vacuum and therefore they impact the rest, plus writers control the story details.

 

Oh, now it's an opinion?

A few posts up you said it was a fact that TLJ is a bad film.