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Discussion Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by BalanceOfTheForce, Dec 18, 2017.

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  1. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Maybe not paid in the traditional sense, but we shouldn't expect someone who was invited to the (very exclusive) World Premiere to give their unbiased opinion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  2. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    What is the point? Seriously, what is the point?
     
  3. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Those critics that gave negative reviews of TFA and R1 still got invited to the premiere of TLJ. Same with other franchises like the MCU and DCU. If I recall as well there were the odd few negative Premiere reviews as well so it’s not like anyone is actually afraid to speak their mind. I hardly think anyone is giving rave reviews purely so they can go to premieres otherwise what’s the point of going if you don’t actually like the movies?

    I’m of the personal belief that people should go in blind and form their own opinion. If they can’t do that find one or two critics who you feel best relate to your tastes and refer to them.
     
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  4. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    At the very least, they gloss over many of the flaws with the movie. John Campea has famously claimed that there "were no plotholes" in TLJ, which is factually incorrect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  5. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    People at the premiere go and watch a movie, then they give their initial reaction to the movie as a whole, what exactly do you expect them to do, give a detailed comment on every tiny detail in the movie?
    People don't "gloss over" anything. They do a review, and that's it. Some people see issues in a place, others don't. Doesn't mean that things get "glossed over", just that they didn't see it someone else might. Some people harped on and on over Tarkin and Leia in Rogue One, others weren't bothered one bit. There is absolutely nothing unusual about that.

    Are the initial reactions (which are not a review) generally very positive? Yes, often they are. That has a lot to do with the hype and the situation of being at a premiere. Doesn't mean that the people at the premiere can't give a completely valid review once they have gathered their thoughts.

    Is that so?
    That comes down to what one considers a plothole. Not getting an answer to something that prior movie said we wouldn't get an answer for is something a few people on this board consider a plothole, it isn't one. Generally speaking, there usually are a few tiny holes in every story, regardless of how detailed it is. Some people look at the plot in its entirety and check for any flaws. If they can't find any, that to them can mean that "there were no plotholes". Others nitpick the entire movie. In such a case, one will always find something that does not get explained 100%. Different people can very well come to different conclusions as for whether there were plotholes in the movie or not.
     
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  6. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2014
    So because someone said there were no plot holes all critics must be spreading misinformation about the quality of said film? Has any critic said it is a flawless masterpiece? No. A movie can still have flaws and be considered good. Star Wars is littered with plot holes, retcons, conveniences across all eras.

    You don’t have to love every aspect of a movie to love the whole product. There are many things in Star Wars that I don’t particularly like but I love everyone one of the movies to bits and would give glowing reviews to all of them.

    A review is one persons thoughts on the matter. They aren’t put out as factual evidence as to whether a film is good or not. If you disagree with a reviewer then you disagree. Who cares if someone who reviewed the movie does not knows all the ins and outs of the universe that’s not the point. A review is simply whether or not they enjoyed the movie.

    Also I disagree about plot holes in TLJ. I believe it’s one of the tightest scripts a Star Wars movie has had in ages. You can claim it’s factually incorrect and that’s fine but it doesn’t make your claim any more valid than mine or Campea’s.
     
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  7. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    TFA did quite well regarding toys. We can debate the reason all day long, but losing a big part of the sales pie won't go unnoticed by Disney.
    Toys have traditionally brought in more money than all other SW product, yes, including movies.
    The next movie will be more kids-friendly mark my words. No more focus on serial-killer romance (which even I as an adult find confusing) and strange acting Jedi masters.



    ORLY?
    Tell that to forbes. You're right that we can't expect toys to sell as well as they did when TFA came around, BUT SW was always a cash cow when it came to toy sales. Not anymore.



    It's just evidence that the movie isn't that popular with kids, which is completely logical if you look at the plot with any kind of objectivity.
     
  8. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    "Serial killer romance" is critically acclaimed part of the movie and the most popular thing with its target audience while kid-friendly stuff like lame Yo mama jokes and rabbit horses drew the most criticism and haven't played well with their target audience (kids) either. Just sayin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  9. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I think you're talking about teenage girls, not younger kids who are the main target audience regarding toys. Even then most of those romance novels feature a hunk of a man, not someone who's a little awkward looking like Kylo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  10. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Teenage girls are audience that LF wanted to attract with ST and female attendance on the opening weekend of TLJ went up by 10% from TFA. So they succeeded there. Toy situation has been explained in other posts. It's a combination of factors, some of them that did not exist 2-3 years ago (Toys'R'Us bankruptcy).
     
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  11. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I don't see an influx of teenage girls on these boards or anywhere else in fandom. There was the whole Reylo movement (and still is), but I think LFL vastly overestimated its impact and size. Kylo just doesn't fit the pattern most of these girls are after. They should have cast someone who was more muscular and/or boyish (think Boygroup, think Justin Bieber).

    Teenage girls are the reason Titanic did so well, but few of them seemed to have attended TLJ a second or third time because otherwise we wouldn't have had such a massive drop-off.
     
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  12. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    ... awkward looking, "not muscular" enough Kylo, who is directly responsible for a "massive drop-off" and low toy sells.

    [​IMG]

    This is new. Never heard before that TLJ made just 1.3 billion because Driver is a miscast for serial killer romance, and not a hunk of a man.
     
  13. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    You in no way can make any kind of overall judgement of the fan base based on a message board (or online activity in general). Kylo wasn't the person they were using to attract a new female audience in the first place. It was Rey. That scene with Kylo with his shirt off was just meant to be a bit of a joke and not something they were using to get girls into the theater.

    Teenage girls went to see Titanic as much as they did because the movie had a 23 year old Leo at the height of his boy band image days. This trilogy in no way is trying to duplicate that.

    @Nipuhanipera you should watch Collider or John Campea and see just how much they make fun of people that try to continue to say that just because people get invited to premiere's that that means they are either getting paid off or not allowed to say what they really think. The studios want honest opinions. They say the only time the studios get mad is when they let out a review before the embargo lifts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  14. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Yeah based on message boards, we can go around in circles about what was overestimated. Like Poe's popularity. They beefed up his screen time considerably and the movie boxoffice dropped and didn't set Latin America on fire either despite interviews emphasizing his Latino heritage.

    Take a look at TFA foreign performance in Latin America and then TLJ. Flyboy wonder didn't help:

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=starwars7.htm
    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=starwars8.htm

    I'm being sarcastic in case that didn't come through. The point is what's considered overestimated around here is totally arbitrary and up to poster X, Y, Z tastes and in no way something that is confirmed by Disney/LF marketing research. We just pick characters/relationships/plots we don't like and try to make a spin that they are the reason why TLJ is performing like any sequel to a movie that maxed out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  15. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    But there is an insurgence of female fans at a lot of other outlets, forums and social media. Boards like this are now considered old school as a social media outlet. The female fans are there.

    Nvm the rest
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  16. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    At the end of the day, social media, forums, etc. never represent the full scope of any audience, fandom, political supporters, etc.
     
  17. starwarsfan54

    starwarsfan54 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 29, 2017
    They're really boxed in no matter the reaction.

    Ghost Luke tells Rey she's the best at everything.

    Rey fights and beats the Knights of Ren because she's the best at everything.

    Rey fights and beats Kylo because she's the best at everything.

    The Empire maybe has a new superweapon.

    I can't see it playing out any other way.
     
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  18. Strategize

    Strategize Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Have I seriously just scrolled through this page and read someone suggesting that one of the things responsible for some sort of "dropoff" is because Adam Driver isn't pretty enough? Is this seriously where we're at now? Is the well is that dry?

    Besides, isn't tumblr where most the teenage girls hang out? Someone in the Rey & Kylo thread was posting about the Reylo stuff being the #1 topic on tumblr continuously for almost 2 months now, whatever standards these teenage girls have, he must of passed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I assumed—still assume—that Star Wars is a film that is targeted towards both genders and all ages, and can be and is enjoyed by all demographics. Except maybe the alt-right but they weren’t too fond of it in 1977 either. When the OT came out, it was enjoyed by families, even if Lucas did call it a kids’ movie. There are people who are now in their 60s and 70s, men and women, who enjoyed it the first time as adults, and people my age who enjoyed it the first time as kids.

    The idea that TLJ is targeted mainly towards teenage girls and if you don’t like it, is because you aren’t a teenage girl, is pretty far-fetched.
     
  20. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    What is the point of this thread, those who like gang up and those that don't gang up and we just go round and round and round never getting anywhere.

    Please lock this thread [face_praying]
     
  21. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Or, just don't post?
     
  22. jamminjedi23

    jamminjedi23 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2015
    That is kind of what message boards are. It's not nearly as bad as youtube comment sections, twitter, and facebook though. Those places are pretty much the very definition of the word 'garbage'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  23. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Can't say I'm surprised; One of my friends complained about JW simply because Chris Pratt was in it and he didn't have a shirtless scene....

    She also said Adam definitely doesn't stack up to the likes of Pratt or Hemsworth. What the hell do I know, I'm a dude and 'I'm supposed to not be able to connect with Rey.' Or some such nonsense KK was spouting off.

     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  24. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    I'm not a teenage girl and I liked it....admittedly I rather enjoyed seeing all those 'hints' at Kylo Ren turning to the light...being false with him essentially trying to make Rey lean on him by saying "I'm the only one who will ever care for you." classic manipulative boyfriend line, and thankfully she didn't swallow it. Honestly I feel there's a lot to like in this film, and thought it's not perfect, I feel it deserves a place as one of the series best. That said, I fully understand why some people take issues with the film, but for me the positives outweigh the negatives by a fair margin.

    That said, I do think LFL will take some criticism into account as they go forward, though I do NOT think it'll be to any major degree...like retconing Rey's heritage or some such. I figure the next film will have much less 'Down time' for the characters and ramp up the action a bit, since this film kind of throttled that action back from TFA.
     
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  25. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    Judging by the BO decline from TFA to TLJ, I don't know if they've acqiured that many new fans. I guess we'll have to wait for Solo and IX to get the full picture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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