ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

They shouldn't even have brought back evil master/apprentice dynamic in the first place IMO. If they want to explore new characters, ideas and stories, than they should have done it for the beginning. When they change it midway, like in the ST, we have to deal with some lame character development, such as Snoke.

 

About JJ:

"JJ Abrams says Star Wars Episode 9 won't "revel" in the past: "We have to go elsewhere"
"We have to take them places that they haven't gone."

JJ Abrams has explained how he is approaching his return to the Star Wars franchise for Episode 9.
Appearing on BBC Radio 4's Today programme with composer Michael Giacchino, Abrams outlined that while he will want to evoke the same feel that we all had when we first watched a Star Wars movie, he will make sure there's something fresh too.

"I feel like we need to approach this with the same excitement that we had when we were kids loving what these movies were and, at the same time, we have to take them places that they haven't gone, and that's sort of our responsibility," he noted.

"It's a strange thing. Michael's worked on things like Planet of the Apes and Star Trek and Star Wars and these are the things of dreams. Yet we can't just revel in that, we have to go elsewhere."

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a841087/jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-9-tease/


"One of the biggest (and perhaps somewhat controversial) pieces of Star Wars news to come out recently was the reveal that J.J. Abrams would be returning to direct Episode IX. Abrams also directed the first of the new trilogy, Episode VII: The Force Awakens (with Rian Johnson directing the upcoming Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, of course). But as Abrams recently told Rolling Stone, “I had no intention to return.” He continued,
“But when the opportunity presented itself to finish a story that we had begun with these new characters, to tell the last chapter of their story, it felt like there was a chance to do it in a way where we could go beyond, and do better than we did in Seven. I learned so much in that movie and I saw that this was a chance to sort of realize something that we hadn’t quite achieved – and part of that was it was simply the beginning of these new characters and their story. The opportunity to sort of take what we had learned, to take the feeling of who these characters are and what they are and give them a final chapter that felt in the spirit of what we begun? It was too delicious of an opportunity to pass up.”
http://collider.com/why-jj-abrams-is-directing-star-wars-9/#images

 

I agree with this more than what RJ did. I do think Snoke works very well in service of Kylo's arc.

 

Somehow I get sick of such statements.

 

I suspect yes they will take notice of the backlash and why not as there is NO "gameplan" with these films.

They are just making it up ads they go along. When the created TFA (badly) they gave noi thought at all to Episode VIII. The way Rian created TLJ clearly he has given no thought to Episode IX.

This "on the fly" film-making gives them the opportunity to bend with the public will however they like...

 

If Luke returns as a Force ghost in IX it won't be to appease the fans. It will be because he told Kylo in TLJ, "I will always be with you" and "See you around, kid".

 

A lack of performance for the much maligned Han Solo movie will be a much more determining factor in any episode IX desperation selling out to “fans”

 

A lack of performance for the much maligned Han Solo movie will be a much more determining factor in any episode IX desperation selling out to “fans”

 

Honestly, I'm not sure J.J is even aware of all this.

 

It better...cause as it stands now TLJ will be the first SW movie I don't buy on blu ray. I also refuse to blindly pre-order episode 9 tickets until I read through spoilers and feel like the movie is going in a decent direction.

 

"16) The Art of lists the various dates of the movie’s production, allowing us to put together a fascinating timeline of how it got made—and how early work began on it;

• January 9, 2013 - The first visual meeting about new Star Wars movies
• May 16, 2014 - The Force Awakens begins filming
• May 27, 2014 - Rogue One director Gareth Edwards’ first day at Lucasfilm
• July 2, 2014 - Rian Johnson’s first day at Lucasfilm
• August 2014 - The basic story for The Last Jedi is in place
• November 12, 2014 - A production office for The Last Jedi opens in Burbank, CA
• March 4, 2015 - The first draft of The Last Jedi is completed.
• April 20, 2015 - Rian Johnson and his team present the film and early work to Disney executives.
• July 29, 2015 - The second draft of The Last Jedi is submitted.
• August 3, 2015 - Rogue One starts filming.
• September 15-17, 2015 - Johnson and his crew capture the first footage for The Last Jedi on Skellig Michael in Ireland. This “preshoot” was to get outdoor shots before the weather changed.
• December 11, 2015 - A third draft of The Last Jedi is complete.
• December 18, 2015 - The Force Awakens opens in theaters.
• February 1, 2016 - The first draft of the shooting script for The Last Jedi is completed.
• February 11, 2016 - The Last Jedi begins principal photography.
• July 29, 2016 - The Last Jedi finishes filming.

https://twitter.com/io9/status/943226621787549697

 

Yeah I plan on stepping back for a good while from posting consistently next month. TLJ doesn't leave me with much hope for Star Wars in general. Abrams has such a hard sell - harder than pre-Episode VII - and I even feel more pity for Trevorrow for having had to build a new house on top of this thing before their fallout. I'm curtailing the money I spend on new SW products as well. No more frivolous buying of Rey cereal.

If I'm Abrams I'm making TFA part 2 and doing to Rian Johnson what Rian Johnson did to him with TFA.

 

The "I pity Colin Trevorrow" comments I'm seeing tossed around really make my head spin. I don't think anyone should pity him much. Hate on RJ all you want, but I think some folks here are deliberately trying to forget that there was a reason practically everyone on this site was unified in feeling either underwhelmed or extremely concerned over the thought of him helming Episode IX from the day he first got the job in 2015. He stood out like a sore thumb from Day One and always felt like someone way out of his depth.

And Magnar, I hate to burst your bubble, but JJ's been onboard with what Rian Johnson did for TLJ since before TFA came out. Hell, his comments in the TFA commentary indicate that he largely agrees with the creative choices that Rian made (i.e. Rey Random, the Rey-Kylo dynamic).

 

Abrams was unable to dictate the future of Star Wars movie. He's said that Johnson made some departures from his ideas while staying in line with some others.

Lawrence Kasdan: “[J .J. Abrams and I have] not really [sketched out the next episodes]. [The Force Awakens] sets up a lot of stuff. There’s a lot of people to deal with. And Rian took on that job and he’s going to change it, because he’s Rian. And I’m sure Colin will change what Rian does…. These movies will all be so different. Rian Johnson is a friend of mine — he’s going to make some weird thing. If you’ve seen Rian’s work, you know it’s not going be like anything that’s ever been in Star Wars.” “We talked about [the ending of the new trilogy] — and there’s a certain thing that people who are involved with it feel should happen. There’s a kind of movement that happens. But it’s not in your control. It’s going to veer off with Rian, and it’s going to veer off another way with Colin.” (December 22, 2015)

"Weird" must be nice guy Lawrence Kasdan-speak for ****. As the director of Dreamcatcher, he knows what that's like. He said great things about Lord & Miller despite reportedly turning against them too.

 

Nice, then you will have ROTJ 2. Death Star / starkiller, Ewoks included.

You are all making final assessments on this arc of the saga based on halfway thru.

 

And yet, Abrams was reportedly so jealous of Rian's script that he wished he was the one getting to put it to film.

 

Abrams corrected Grunberg for saying that.

J. J. Abrams: “Here’s the thing about Greg [Grunberg]. You put a microphone in front of him, you never know what you’re going to get. I love my friend Greg. He’s my best friend since Kindergarten. I think that my enthusiasm for [Episode] VIII is enormous. I think he also might have invented a couple of the quotes that he gave but I am very much excited for, and very jealous of anyone, especially Rian [Johnson], who gets to work so closely with this extraordinary cast and crew. Truly an amazing group. In that regard, for sure, but honestly, I’m also relieved to have gotten the chance to do a Star Wars movie.” (February 14, 2016)

He misses working with the cast and crew.

J. J. Abrams: “I’d be lying if I said there weren’t pangs of regret [about not directing Episode VIII]. Particularly when I realize I won’t get to say ‘Action!’ to Daisy Ridley, or get to work with Mark Hamill in a scene where he gets to speak.” (November 22, 2016)

 

I think Colin is breathing a sigh of relief. Part of me assumes there might have been some major contention between him and Lucasfilm when he found out he won't be getting a chance to use Luke or Snoke in his film as he spoke about wanting to pay tribute to the old and new in the trilogy and wrap things out in a satisfying way. Every interview he seemed to talk about Luke and Leia with giddy excitement. When Carrie died he was probably seeing the writing on the wall that the film was going to be nothing like he may have initially envisioned and decided to part ways than continue to but heads with Lucasfilm. Smart guy.

 

I don't know if this is a 'change' necessarily because I don't know what their initial plans were for Episode IX, but I will say that I want Luke to still have a strong role and presence in Episode IX.

The original version of Episode IX featured Leia in a prominent role, which obviously will not be the case now that Carrie Fisher has passed away.

This leaves none of the original cast left - no connection to the characters of the previous two trilogies aside from Ben Solo. That just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. It seems to defy the themes established by George Lucas, who, I know, it's popular to hate on after the prequels. But thematically, I don't think it's fitting to have the Skywalkers absent in any heroic role in the closing chapter of this trilogy of trilogies.

Qui Gon was able to return as a disembodied voice. Obi-Wan and Yoda took on an ethereal form, but as we saw they still interact with their surroundings. I want to see Luke return in a more physical form - I want to see him return in a manner similar to Gandalf the White.

Before the barrage of hate-filled angry comments about how this would undercut the "sacrifice" at the end of The Last Jedi, at least hear me out on this one.

If Luke only returns as a Force Ghost to guide Rey, this trilogy will have been pointless. Before jumping on me, let me preface this by saying that individually I enjoyed both films in this trilogy so far. I thought The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were both good movies. By pointless, I mean that it will have retold the story of the Original Trilogy with different characters. Yes, it hits a few different story beats - Snoke dies in the second chapter and Ren takes his place. Vader always wanted to kill the Emperor but just wasn't strong enough. The Force Awakens offered an opening chapter VERY similar to A New Hope. The Last Jedi has some very distinct differences from The Empire Strikes Back - but also some striking similarities. Rey's training by Luke isn't beat for beat the same as his training with Yoda, but essentially it's similar in plot structure in that she is isolated from the rest of the cast of heroes on her own personal journey. Luke is far more resistant to train her than Yoda was on Dagobah in Empire Strikes Back, so that's a differentiating factor, but overall the story is pretty similar. Her connection to Ren pulls her away in a manner similar to Luke's connection to Leia, Han, Chewie, and 3PO at Bespin. Both Luke and Rey must confront an emotional reveal by the main villain regarding their parentage. The facts in the two cases aren't the same. Luke learned that he was the son of Darth Vader and that confronting his father was his destiny - that there were more layers to this black and white battle between good and evil that he would have to face - because he, a Jedi, a hero, was born from the evil Darth Vader and thus he was forced to confront and come to terms with the fact that the same forces that turned his father, a hero, Anakin Skywalker, to the Dark side were also at work within him. Thus his triumph over Darth Vader was also a symbolic triumph over the evil in himself. Rey is forced to confront the fact that her parents really did just abandon her and aren't coming back - that she wasn't destined to face Ren because she's not important by birth. She's important because she chooses to be important - because the Force something something, life and death, out with the old, in with the new.

Let me be clear - these similarities in plot structure are not inherently a flaw if the overall story is differentiated enough from the story of the Original Trilogy. At this point there is no way the sequel trilogy will be as distinct from the OT as the Prequel Trilogy was in terms of tone, structure, and overall story. But there is still the opportunity with the closing chapter of this trilogy to end things on a very different note - which in effect makes this a different story overall.

If Luke does nothing but offer Rey some words of wisdom in the same manner as Ben Kenobi, guiding her to defeat Kylo Ren and overturn the First Order, this will have been a retelling of the Original Trilogy without the same emotional depth or resonance. Yes, Ren betrayed Snoke, the Emperor character, but that just makes him the top dog. So when Rey faces him, there is no one above him with whom she needs to contend. If he is redeemed, it will be exactly the same as Darth Vader. Maybe he doesn't die afterward? I guess that's a distinction, but not a real difference. Vader finally succumbed to decade old injuries and the failure of his life support system after he betrayed the Emperor. Ren's redemption at this point would just lack the emotional resonance. No one was trying to redeem Vader in A New Hope or Empire Strikes Back. It was only after Luke realized his father was the man behind the mask and recognized himself in his father and the part of his father in himself that he realized there was good left in Vader, a small part of Anakin Skywalker that was still alive. We've already had Han Solo, Rey, and Luke Skywalker try and fail to redeem Ren. A redemption in Episode IX would feel a little too late ... haven't we been down this path already? If his father, his mother, his Master, and his psychologically linked equal from a desert that looks like Tatooine all failed, I can't think of any reasonable way he could be convinced at this point to turn from the Dark Side.

So that leaves the option of Rey killing him in Episode IX. Which I guess will mean the end of the First Order even though the fall of Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader only opened the door for the First Order to somehow rise out of the ashes of the Empire behind Snoke, whose origins aren't important and won't be explained? Basically, the exact same place we left the Galaxy at the end of Return of the Jedi with a different set of characters and Rey, no one from nowhere, replacing Luke as the one to rebuild the Jedi Order. Because there is no destiny but the one you make for yourselves. That's the motto of Star Wars right? No? Terminator? Really?

I get what Rian Johnson is going for here. George Lucas' saga is built around destiny - an intertwined web of characters, guided by the Force. It's the reason Luke was destined to face Vader. Family was inherently built into the structure of the story. This new chapter is about saying none of that is true - that there is no such thing as destiny - not really. Anakin wasn't meant to be the chosen one. There was no chosen one. Luke wasn't meant to rebuild the Jedi Order. Rey is decidedly NOT a Skywalker and yet she will be the one to rebuild the Jedi Order - it's an inversion of the themes of the original trilogy. So the story will leave our characters in the exact same scenario as they were 30 years ago. Add Luke to the gallery of dead Jedi watching from the sidelines. Substitute in Ren for both the Vader and Palpatine roles (playing double parts), Rey for Luke and Leia, Poe for Han. Add on Finn and Rose who ultimately don't really accomplish anything except for re-killing Phasma, and we'll call it a trilogy.

It sounds like I'm being highly critical of the Last Jedi - that is not my intention. I am critical of the idea that the tone and direction of this film should guide the closing chapter of the saga.

Luke Skywalker is the wild card here - and his presence in Episode IX could dramatically change the tone of the film. I'm not suggesting he should come in and save the day, defeat Kylo Ren, and steal the thunder from the new characters.

What I am suggesting is that something needs to intervene - to make this story more than the sum of its' parts.

What I'm suggesting is that Rey should be the one to defeat Kylo Ren - that he should not be redeemed. We should learn about exactly who Snoke was and how he influenced Kylo Ren, how he pieced together the First Order, etc.

I think the basic plot of the movie should be the Rebellion catching like wildfire, across the galaxy, fueled by the legend of Luke Skywalker. Rey is strong with the force, but her connection to the old Jedi Order is tenuous at best. Luke was at least trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan. Rey wasn't even trained by Luke.

I'd like to see Luke appearing across the galaxy, inspiring a new generation of Jedi, calling them from across the Galaxy, and in the third act, returning in physical form.

I want to see Luke training a new generation of Jedi. That was the destiny I feel we were promised in Return of the Jedi. If he does not - if he simply passes that destiny along to Rey, it essentially spits on the entire legacy of the Skywalkers and Luke will have accomplished almost nothing wortwhile in his life. Anakin murdered hundreds, maybe thousands of Jedi and ruled the Empire along with Palpatine. His son came along and redeemed him by never giving up on the good left in him, but didn't do the same with his nephew, and thus allowed Kylo Ren to repeat the actions of Darth Vader. All the Skywalkers will have been failures and Rey will be the one to bring balance to the Force. Consider that as things stood before the sequel trilogy, the prophecy about Anakin was not wrong. He destroyed the Jedi Order, but he was redeemed and thus destroyed the Sith as well, leaving his son and his daughter to take up the task of rebuilding the Jedi Order and the Republic. They both failed - both the New Repulic and New Jedi Order were destroyed before the audience even got to see them. What I think is lost here as well is a certain poetry in the other half of the Skywalker legacy. The movies have heavily focused on Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader, but seem to forget that Leia in essence took up the role of her mother, Padme Amidala, who co-founded the Rebellion in the dying days of the Republic. There was a certain poetry, a certain symmetry that Return of the Jedi left us with Luke and Leia to finish the good things their parents Anakin and Padme started. These movies have destroyed both legacies and will leave everything in the hands of Rey. I really like Rey as a character, but her hero's journey does not require her to absorb the destiny of all the heroes from the original trilogy any more than Frodo saving Middle Earth also required him to become the King of Gondor. It is possible to have Luke still have an important role in the founding of a New Jedi Order without stealing Rey's thunder or undercutting her hero's journey. She has essentially already faced and turned down Snoke and Ren as they confronted her with temptation to turn to the Dark Side. There isn't really any internal conflict left to explore in Episode IX without retreading the same story beats of the past two films. Rey and Kylo Ren have essentially both faced the same situation Luke and Vader faced in Return of the Jedi and both made their decisions. In that sense, The Last Jedi is sort of a mash-up of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi story-wise. To revisit the same emotional conflicts would be to undercut The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens.

What I think would be most relevant is if somehow Rey's actions, her triumph over Kylo Ren, her bringing together this new generation of Jedi, is intrinsically tied to Luke's full return from the netherworld of the Force, not just as a ghost, but as a physical being, one to lead the new Jedi Order. It would intrinsically tie together the destiny of Luke and Rey, without diminishing her importance. Luke has already accomplished a feat greater than any we've seen in the closing sequence of The Last Jedi. His returning from the dead would play into the Biblical imagery that partially inspired Lucas (also fulfilling original plans for Obi-Wan and Yoda in RotJ as I seem to recall), would add weight to his comments to Ren at the end of The Last Jedi, and would address the biggest concern from many that the film doesn't deliver in regard to Luke Skywalker.

 

That's what I was thinking. It all depends on the movie's box office legs.

Granted I think the legs will be just fine lol. But if it unexpectedly has a big drop off next week and the week after then that might affect things for 9.

 

LFL trying to make Episode IX entirely based on the input from us fans would result in the cinematic equivalent of the Homer.

 

I've always wondered how much of Star Wars's box office is fans seeing the film multiple times. Since these are the fans most likely to be upset by the film... we may have actual data on that soon. XD

 

If there is a backlash for TLJ then wait for the Han Solo movie.

 

It's almost as if there is a backlash for every SW movie.