ST Will fan backlash affect development of IX?

And RJ made it feel somehow destined that Luke would've arrived there regardless.

Because if he did strike down his sleeping, beloved nephew? That would've torn Luke completely apart. He would've been emotionally abandoned by his dearest loved ones, and ended up in an exile regardless.

It's stunning writing.

 

It is pretty amazing to me the number of people here who are acting as though everything is OK. It isn't OK, and when the dust settles and TLJ under-performs TFA by $300 million or so, you better believe KK and JJ are going to re-think IX.

Now, the middle film of a trilogy almost always under-performs parts I and III, unless II upsets so many people they don't come back for III. (See The Matrix).
Disney also has the built-in excuse that TFA was the first new SW film in 10 years, and TLJ didn't have the same hype and nostalgia built in.

But, to pretend that many fans aren't upset is using tunnel vision. No one is right, and no one is wrong, but some of y'all are acting like there is no backlash, or that the backlash doesn't matter, and I think you are understating the situation.

 

Yes, I'm sure forum dwellers boycotting Rey cereal and blu rays is going to alter Disney-Lucasfilm's entire trajectory for Star Wars IX.

 

There has been something amiss with audience reaction reporting. You have some sites saying that Rotten Tomatoes is completely "fake news," while promoting the CinemaScore of an "A." And then there is Wikipedia removing anything that might suggest that there is fan backlash over the movie under audience reactions. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. Go on Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube and you'll see that there has been a mixed reaction, though the ratio is probably like 70% liked-30% disliked. And Rotten Tomatoes continues to strike back. It's all very strange.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...audience-score-is-100-authentic/#685745834231

 

One week in:

TOMATOMETER 93%
CinemaScope: A
Metacritic: 86

Kathleen Kennedy: What are we going to do about all this money and acclaim?!?! It's a nightmare!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...audience-score-is-100-authentic/#305912224231

 

Your point?

The RT audience score can still be easily trolled by angry diehards who didn't get their head canon validated. It's still the aberration when compared to other audience reaction sites, including IMDB (which, incidentally, is famous for trolls, but less now since they killed their cesspoll message board feature).

Do you honestly, truly think that Disney, one of the biggest companies in the world, is quaking over RT audience scores? On a film that's one of the most critically acclaimed in the history of the franchise?

 

I think it went something more like this:

Trevorrow speaking: "Did I hear you right? At the end of Episode 8, Snoke will be dead, Luke will be dead, and Leia will be alive...? I'll pass on Episode 9."

 

We have to push this guy back in. He understands SW better than all this corporate hacks.

And he was always there for us, even in the years with no hype.

 

Yikes

 

"Maybe he's Jake Skywalker, he's not my Luke Skywalker. I still haven't accepted it completely."

Ouch! I love how honest Mark is. I wish Rian had not been so damn stubborn and listened to this man. I mean he still feels like this character was not true to Luke and yet Disney knew better?

 

I would say that Disney is more likely to listen than most large distributors. They have a habit of course correcting, more so with larger productions. Also, let's consider that reaction in this case actually is important because most fans come with their kids.

So if anything I can see them doing a change up to the story or plot aspects. Remember episode 5 changed from 4 and 6 was altered too.

Honestly I think that it should have been one mind behind this story rather than 3. Simplifies things.

 

I get the feeling J J will change how Luke is to something Mark will like because I think he, like George trusts Mark as an actor. Also I think that J.J. Thinks like George in epic story telling.

 

MOD EDIT: That's a bit too far.


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Mark Hamill is actually one of the best barometers for the success or failure of the Star Wars films. He was the only cast member that expected STAR WARS to actually do well in 1977. He's also the one that has been most immersed in fan culture, not only thanks to Star Wars, but thanks to his voice acting work. If there was one person on the cast and crew that could call out the likely reaction to the film it was him... and he has been trying to warn us as much as he possibly could.

If you see him immediately after the film's premiere, his expression says it all. He looks like a man that is in complete shock and disbelief. He knows that the fandom will be divided over the film, hell... he probably feels very divided about the film himself. That rift needs to be healed in Episode IX if the franchise is to continue forward beyond the ST in a meaningful way, and that will require a lot of work and a bit of soul searching at Lucasfilm.

If 'The Last Jedi' suffers at the box-office in it's second-weekend drop, expect Lucasfilm to begin the process of trying to autopsy why. Of all things, I think Lucasfilm needs to take some pages out of Marvel's playbook, which has done a lot more oversight and long term structural planning with its films then it appears Lucasfilm has done. Have the Story Group nail down the overall plot and fate of the characters, and get directors and writers that will put meat on those bones without needing to make the film 'theirs'.

 

they won't do an autopsy, its unnecessary. they already know the product they put out. it's the glibness, the deflation of Luke before finally inflating him again, its the lack of seriousness. All of that is counter balanced by the darkness and gravity of the film and the consequences of it.

All of this commotion and provocation about Star Wars will have the opposite effect that many of you think. The last thing they want is to make Star Wars anodyne. All of the controversy will compel more intrigue, more revenue, more anticipation, less permanent alienation. fans willWANT to know how JJ resolves this, how JJ challenges the story, characters -- and audience.

 

Sure bud "all of the controversy will compel more intrigue, more revenue, more anticipation," just like WB banked on BvS being divisive and making tons of money but then when they tried to correct course for JL the franchise is now dead in the water. Things like this hurt the brand in the long term and Disney did not want this. I think Bob Iger will be taking a more active role in the next film, most likely approving large scale creative decisions instead of just relegating it all to Kathleen Kennedy whose so far done a TERRIBLE job choosing directors for this franchise.

 

So we are resorting to insults now?

The point is that Disney should be mindful that there are people who care about the franchise who have legitimate concerns about the choices made in this movie. While it may not affect there overall story direction it would be an act of hubris to ignore some of the concerns being brought up by some fans.

 

I think it would be a mistake to equate box office receipts with the quality of any film. Many critics comment on how well a film is made. I think the TLJ is well made on technical grounds. I even think the acting was good.

However, all the gloss and glitter fails to cover some of the plot holes and poor writing in this film. I do believe that Disney will recognize some of these flaws and Episode 9 will seek to address them.

 

I agree that they will look at some of the plot detail a bit more closely. Rian Johnson did a good job directing from a technical standpoint. I do not think he should have been the chief writer of TLJ.

 

I think TLJ has some of the smartest character-driven writing in the saga. I think the division is coming because people have very strong visions of what these characters and this galaxy can and cannot be, and a sizeable chunk of the hardcore are reacting very strongly to some of the choices. It doesn't mean the storytelling isn't good. I disagree that there is poor writing. I think you could argue that some pf the exposition could be cut, I wouldn't fight anyone that feels some of the humour is too strong (though I think it's a taste thing). I'm not sure where the poor writing is beyond that. I think part of the problem is it's hard to appreciate the various set-ups and pay-offs and thematic parallels that are running throughout and sometimes under the radar. For what RJ is trying to do, I think the writing is strong, and superb in parts. But I can see why some may disagree with choices - it's not just expectations he's subverting its notions of heroism and convention and I can see why some aren't down with that, or think it's sloppy writing. IMO, it's the opposite. And LFL would agree with me. They loved Rian. They loved his work. They really like TLJ. It was locked months ago. They liked it so much they greenlit a new trilogy by RJ. Angry SW fans to liking the new SW film will not have come as a shock to them, especially one they will have known would spark anger in some sectors. They will have factored this in. They will continue to tell the story they want to tell, which is as it should be, for better or worse.

 

You mean the Sith Lord Dark Luke idea he pitched? That’s what you all want?

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...-case-for-evil-luke-skywalker-to-j-j-abrams-/

If not then his taken out of context and edited words don’t mean much.

 

No. The only thing that can affect Episode IX is the bottom line. Right now it has grossed $537,000. Rogue One ultimately grossed about $1 billion, and The Force Awakens $2 billion. Time will tell how much Episode IX will finally gross.

 

They shouldn’t listen one bit to the fans. I let out a long swear beginning with the letter “ F” when the big part came at the end because I didn’t want to see it happen but man, I thought it was done really well. My feeling is mostly positive. I think we all have an impossible job to not have had to imagine “what would Luke be like NOW. What adventure could he be going through? So many of us have even been show this in books and magazines.
But if you look at Luke at the end of Jedi and fact forward to these movies. 30 years is a looong time. He’s orphaned, watches his aunt and uncle’s burnt corpses.Loses a new old friend who is now closer to him as much as anyone he knows now. Loses his hand. Finds out his dead mentor tricked him into trying to kill his dad and his dad is the 2nd most evil person in the galaxy.
He cuts off his dead cyborg dad’s hand and his dad turns good only to die.
He trains a new monster that seemingly, bad guys are more powerful than ever.
I’d be like F this. Peace out. I’m gonna go hang out with porgs , fish, and drink green milk.