Will France capitulate YET again or prove the whole world wrong once and for all?

whatever the french decide, the right will bash them for it.

 

That's just stereotyping.


Ciou-See the Sig

 

One could make the argument that the US went into Iraq for VESTED interests...no bid contracts for Halliburton isnt freedom and oppossing evil...its dirty business

 

Let me address some responses first:

MaceWinducannotdie wrote:

"The US has never been the first line of defense against a superior foe in two world wars, let alone held out in that capacity during one of them. A history lesson they don't teach in the schools (or on talk radio)".

Ehhhhhhhh yet again you miss my point. Perhaps you should try actually reading what I wrote instead of instantly firing back with your programmed rhetoric?

I was referring to the ideology of Neville Chamberlain and the French Government of appeasing Hitler so that he would not continue to act aggressively, although he ultimately did adopt aggressive tactics in spite of having his requests granted (i.e. being appeased). Sound familiar?

I suppose they didn't teach that history lesson in your schools (or in your pro-socialist "peace protests" - gee it shore is fun to generalize! Me an my buddies here in hicksville shore luv listenin to dem conservurtive radio hosts since thats what all conservurtives do..boy howdy!).

My point? Appeasement didn't work for France (and Britain) in 1939. It doesn't work now. Will the French give in to the terrorists? That's the question and point I am addressing here, and not the side-issue you delved into.

"And not enough understanding of what it [the word "capitulate"] actually means"

ca·pit·u·late

1. To surrender under specified conditions; come to terms.
2. To give up all resistance; acquiesce. See Synonyms at yield.

Oh...I think I have a grasp of what it means and how it pertains to my point. Don't you?

DarthArsenal6 wrote:

"Yeah but no one wants to side with an Ally that has committed so many genocide against a nation and lied to the world that they had WMD."

As opposed to a religion that seems to foster and indeed promote extremist behavior amongst its disenfranchised masses, instead of addressing the obvious inequalities that lie inherant in its structure? As you see the United States of America in such a maligned view, countless other people see your religion in the same vein.

"...comments in italic makes no sence whats so ever Another culture bashing."

GET THIS TOPIC LOCKED

Islam isn't a "culture". Islam is an ideology. There is no "bashing" of anything here, just questioning. So why should this topic be locked if questions are being asked? Major fundamental questioning of the Christian faith go on daily in this forum, so why not of another religion - especially one that is as prevalent in the world today as Islam?

"Pretty much I am
Read the news latley ? I guess not.
wonders why ?
God almighty"

Actually, I have read the news lately. Let's look at some of the world headlines making the rounds today shall we?


Islamic terrorists hijack and crash two Russian planes.

Islamic Suicide bombers kill bus passengers in both Russia and Israel.

Arab muslims are carrying out mass genocide against African Christians in Sudan and have been doing so for quite some time now.

....


Should I go on? I could quote the last 5 years and fill the whole length of your browser with examples from India (Kashmir), Nigeria, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. etc. etc.

"Edit: Find it insulting refering us Muslims as Evils ones, and that the events in Iraq by the occupation never took place"

What??? I have no idea what you are talking about here. By the way, I don't think people have a problem with Muslims. Instead people seem to have a problem with specific aspects of Islam, which seem to promote and foster extremist ideologies. Maybe its time to start questioning some fundamental aspects of Islam instead of ignoring the subject and attributing it to Xenophobia or Racism. Again, a topic for another discussion (or would you and mace want the mods to lock that discussion also?)

MajorMajorMajorMajor, let me first say that I thank you for your well-thought out and int

 

Interesting analysis, MajorMajorMajorMajor, although I disagree with your 'religious war' comment.

The Islamist extremists certainly see it as a 'religious war' even if we don't.

I don't equivocate the entirety of the situation to that (as there are sociopolitical aspects to the Islamist movement), but it certainly plays a big factor (as the situation in France is about head scarfs/religion is it not?).

The French journalists were kidnapped over a religious issue to the terrorists even though to the French it was a secular matter. The extremists are justifying their actions based upon religious reasons in their ongoing 'jihad' and use of their fundamentalist extremism to promote their sociopolitical agenda.

 

What I still don't grasp is when France capitulated those last years?

Please tell me you don't bring back June 1940 again? (that would be too laughable)


Now on to this crisis, all French communities (Muslim, Jewish and Christian) stand united behind our government. The Muslim representatives are even saying that the law shouldn't be abolished due to these hijackers. So why should we give in?
Just tell me, why in the world are we, French, supposed to be giving in to every demand whenever there's a show of force?

 

France was quickly defeated in WW2, and now they are the butt of all bad jokes....Despite all the wars they have fought valiently in

 

Kinda funny, isn't it Windu? France was in many wars far before the United States was even an idea.

That's the kind of respect they get? Hopefully people won't treat the United States like that in a hundred years.

 

lol...I love how some people here are purely defending France because it suits their political agenda.

I'll say it again...i'm referring to France's RECENT actions and policies and how it will effect this current situation. Who the heck is talking about 200-300 years ago? That's not the issue - France's governmnental policies in the Renaissance has nothing to do with their policies today. Come on, do you honestly believe that France's history from hundreds of years ago has more relevance than something that happened less than 65 years ago? Please...

 

All I'm calling for are manners and respect when talking about an entire nation. If you can't handle that much, well, it reflects poorly on you.

 

And do you honestly believe that 65 years ago any country would have been able to resist the Blitzkrieg?

So please spare us this old cliché about France surrendering without any resistance. We had 120 000 soldiers killed in this campaign. Simply put, our strategies were clearly outdated.

But if you want to press on with this nonsense of capitulating as soon as we have to fight, I want you to keep saying from now on that Poland, Greece, Austria, Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands also capitulated too easily (And the United Kingdom would have surely done so, hadn't it been an island)


Now that this issue has been adressed, why don't we just discuss the case of those French journalists without any stupid reference to the past?
I clearly don't think that the terrorists who abducted them did so because France was beaten 65 years ago. Do you really think that people in Iraq are trying to justify every actions of every countries in the world by how they fared during WW2?

 

France could have crushed Germany, but the problem wasn't just that their stradegies were outdated, is that their propeganda about the maginot line so deeply seeped into the psyche of France that they considered themselves impregnable and threw away the best chance for an early end to the fighting, an Invasion of Germany in 1939, because they knew they were safe.

The sad part is that France didn't fight the last war, if they had they would have guarded the Ardennes, they based their entire stradegy on what they'd like Germany to go and when Germany instead did what they'd like to do, France got it's arse handed to it on a platter.

but this is moving more into veni vidi vici territory.

 

And second of all, stop acting like psuedo-mods cause ya aint one.

Nor would I want to be, but the fact remains we have a terrorism thread, we have an Iraq thread, so the only way I can see this thread not being redundant is if it's renamed "The Official Francophobia Thread. Please Pass the Freedom Fries."

And as for the veneer of a topic, France is not going to change a domestic law because of the demands of terrorists, period. To suggest otherwise is either strongly ignorant of how any government works, or, more likely, just a chance to get in some cute Francophobia.

 

I agree Mace.

I advise the mods review the subject and posts of this thread. I'm seeing mostly Anti-France war posts or some defending France, which doesn't lead to constructive discussion. There may be a more appropriate thread already for the terrorism topic.

 

And I say we keep this thread open as long as the situation is ongoing.

 

I happen to currently agree with Crix here.

For me, personally, I left the thread alone because of some very well thought out posts. However, it does seem like it has degenerated from there.

General discussion on the latest terrorist actions can be brought up there.