Will George ever pass the torch?

The Whills were a framing device used by Lucas to enhance the verisimilitude of the story. They basically act as the Red Book of Westmarch to the films' Lord of the Rings. The first film (in both script and novel form, if I remember) are said to come from "The Journal of the Whills," and the novel starts with a quotation from it. They're supposed to be wiser beings watching what's going on in the galaxy. Their existence in the story was intertwined with the Force concept - originally it was less ethereal, but as it became the "all powerful energy field" we know today, Lucas felt the Whills were less and less necessary to the story. (I know I'm forgetting details, but I'm quite tired at the moment and can't be bothered to look this stuff up)

In ROTS they were to be name-dropped by Qui-Gon's ghost, who mentions that he learned the secret to Force ghosting from a Whill shaman.

I agree that Yoda always came across as more of a guru/master than Obi-Wan, even though he was invented to fill the Obi-Wan role in ESB, since Ben was dead. Yoda always seemed more mystical, more thoughtful perhaps. So it makes sense to me too that he would know weird secrets that Obi-Wan may not be privy to.

I think prequel Yoda seemed to fit that description a bit less than the OT one, as he was not just an archetype but had an arc in which he learns, basically, that even he has flaws. And we see Yoda and Obi-Wan going off into exile - together, in spirit. I think that makes it harder to reconcile Yoda then discovering secrets of the Force that Ben doesn't know about, when they're both supposed to be working on learning how to become Force ghosts from Qui-Gon. But this is like the other plot possibilities we discussed - I could buy it, if it were done well/justified.

Is Kurtz the only source of that Other information? Even if Kurtz was wrong about the placement of that plot into whatever episode, it still seems to come from some legit story source (?), right? I need to go back and look all this up again.

 

As far as I know, Kurtz's comments from a few years ago are the only source of any specific information regarding the Other, & even then it's a case of speculating that this is what he was talking about. He doesn't actually say that Luke's sister was the 'Other' referred to in ESB, just that she was to have featured in the ST, but I think it's a fair enough assumption that he did mean she was who Yoda was talking about. However, he might be entirely wrong anyway.

George Lucas claims the line was merely a plot device to emphasise the danger to Luke, & nothing more. I'd say this is a semi-truth - he probably never got around to developing an actual character, but it's too much of a leading line for it to have had absolutely nothing behind it, particularly considering that the previous draft had the line as "Now we must find another", which serves the same purpose of increasing the sense of danger Luke was in, but doesn't require any resolution.

 

If I remember right, Kurtz said that the other was not Leia, but was to be Luke's sister. It has been quite some time since I read the article, so I may be remembering it wrong. Even if the other is not used, or the Whills, I still believe there is a story to here to complete the saga. I never thought, even as a very young child, that ROTJ ended the story. That may be because of the talk after Jedi that there was more to the story, but as I have grown up my opinion has not changed. I know many disagree, and that is their right, I just seem to feel that there are still many open doors to close. Nothing that has to be closed, mind you, just my opinion. The inclusion of these "whills" now may be a stretch, it depends how it is done. Maybe Yoda tells Luke of them? I don't know. Maybe one of them uses the dark side, and even taught Palpatine? I know many things have been written about how he learned the dark ways, but nothing was said definitely in any movie.

 

but why would they say that? its not a certainty luke will die. he doesn't, of course. the only similar, realistic alternative would be something like "we may need to find another". but that really doesn't give the same sense of tension and danger.

 

That's the whole point. They're incredibly worried Luke will die or be turned. They think he's not ready. But he endures, thus when he returns to Yoda the little green dude admits Luke doesn't need training beyond what he had when he left.

 

Indeed. But are you saying the best line would be one implying pessimistic, misguided certainty of Luke's fate? Personally, I don't think so. That would either resign/cheat the audience or make Kenobi look like he has zero faith in Luke.

As I said, the line could have also been "we may now need to find another" but that just doesn't bring the same weight of tension regarding luke as the line that was used - the one that implied dont panic. its ok if he does die. we definitely have an alternative. Such a line both makes the audience doubt any previous certainty our hero would survive, while also keeping enough hope and optimism alive that he may succeed.

Maybe we're reading too much into it. I just dont think the proposed alternative would have been a great solution.

 

You're quite right there, but I don't think either version emphasises the danger to the extent that GL has made out.

"That boy is our last hope" basically does the job. It probably would have worked even better using GL's choice for the edit - over a shot of Luke's X-wing flying away. No need to introduce a loose end.

This is why I think there is more to it - there is (or was) another.

 

Perhaps. I'm just not sure the audience would have really believed, given cinematic cliche, that Luke's character could be sacrificed going into that fight were that the only line. That line in isolation is more likely to reinforce the audience's opinion that Luke will be alright no matter what. Whether it worked or not I really don't know. But I think the theory behind it is sound (if that was the intention). It certainly should allow a nagging doubt and replace absolute certainty. It certainly has an ominous, foreboding quality to it that would at least test the audience's expectations. And that's always a good thing for any film.

 

I like the conversation about the other, but this was really meant to be about if George would ever pass the saga off. And if he were, who would it be and what would his stipulations be? Would he ever allow a sequel trilogy?

 

Well he seems to be about young people and when he was young he made experimental films (Freiheit, the short film version of THX 1138... so maybe he'd encourage that impulse in others?

I dunno if he'd allow a sequel trilogy, as he's really set on the idea that the saga is the story of Anakin. A sequel trilogy, set up in that kind of format, I think would automatically change that perception because Anakin is dead - the story would have to follow some other character(s), even if it's about the repercussions of the Empire and Anakin's actions.

It's like:

PT = Anakin's light side and fall
OT = Anakin's dark side and return
ST = ???

I did once read about someone's idea to have a sequel trilogy about Anakin brought back to atone for his actions (in some other thread on here).

Now, if the story could change it's meaning, then the possibilities open up:

PT = Fall of Republic
OT = Fall of Empire
ST = Rebulding of Republic

or

PT = Anakin
OT = Luke
ST = ???

Now, since the story of the saga has already changed more than once, and the focus has been widened (the OT, once known as Luke's story, is not considered by Lucas to be the second half of Anakin's), I could see the story changing again and becoming even wider in scope. But I don't know if Lucas wants that.

 

I also read before about the idea that the sequels could be about Anakin's actual redemption. That he helps Luke rebuild the Republic, if I remember right. I have no idea how that would work. I agree, though, that George would most likely, after what he did with the prequels, would make sure that any sequel would involve Anakin. That is one reason that i ask if he would pass it off? Would he let someone expand on his vision or take it in a new direction within certain parameters?

 

Typo in my last post. The sentence "the OT, once known as Luke's story, is not considered by Lucas to be the second half of Anakin's" should read "the OT, once known as Luke's story, is now considered by Lucas to be the second half of Anakin's."

As to your point... I don't know. Like we discussed, at one point Lucas would have been up for letting someone else (or multiple someones) take the reins. But after the experience of ESB and Kershner taking the film outside of what he was really comfortable with, and the subsequent hiring of Marquand for ROTJ (and the greater control Lucas exercised over that film)... I really don't know. He has mentioned his age as a reason to not make any more sequels, so perhaps he actually would be willing to relinquish control, because of that?

 

He's basically said no, he won't. For him, the story he set out to create ended with ROTJ, & it's most likely that whatever vague ideas he had for the actual trilogy of Eps VII-IX have been written out of existence by ROTJ & the PT anyway.

What he has done regarding post-ROTJ events in the GFFA is pass the torch to the world of EU literature, & allowed it to go beyond the time constraints he originally imposed upon it. It's incredibly unlikely he'd allow a Star Wars feature to be set after ROTJ, unless it was, perhaps, set hundreds, or even thousands, of years after the Battle Of Endor, in which the characters & situations we witnessed in the saga would only be referenced as ancient historical events or legends.

However, what he has implied is that he wouldn't object to Star Wars features set before the saga - a film about the 'Old, Old Republic', as he put it. A feature about the early days of Yoda is often speculated about by fans, as well - I can see that being done with CGI animation.

With TCW & the upcoming live-action TV series, he's basically passing the torch on the way he wants to already. What's guaranteed, however, is that we won't be seeing any more GL-approved films beginning with the classic opening scroll & an episode number again.

Give it fifty years & some slimy studio that's acquired the rights to the franchise might try it, but I doubt any of us still alive will consider it the real thing.

 

I think, if some non-GL entity attempts Star Wars, they should leave the saga alone, but try something new, like showing the story of how the Republic was first founded.

 

Or the Sith Empire led by Darth Bane... or The Old Republic following the main characters: Raven and Bastila.

 

I think he could very well pass the torch. I posted this last year in another forum, but here it is again...

No more Star Wars movies? That's absurd. Lucas has stated that there will be no more Star Wars movies. All this means is he has no plans in the works. "The story is over'" is an absurd statement. I mean George's story is finished... but just for now. JRR Tolkien never wanted his books to me made into movies, yet they were. Star Wars was supposed to be finished after the originals. He never intended to make the Prequels at one point, yet he did. To all those people who's reasoning for their not being another trilogy is because it is the story about Anakin Skywalker, and now he's dead, that's silly. Here's why; The original trilogy was NOT about Anakin. It was about Luke. Only now that the PT is out, it's easy to say that it's about Anakin on the whole. Yes even Lucas says this, but he changed it because it originaly wasn't. Was the original Star Wars about Anakin? ...about as much as it was about Ponda Baba. Was it even about Vader? No way! It was about Luke. The Emperor didn't even exist in the original. Now, he's the ultimate bad guy, not Vader. What I am trying to say is the story changes as the Star Wars universe is sculpted. Star Wars is ultimately the story about the Jedi, which primarily focuses on the Skywalker family.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think there would not be more Star Wars movies someday. Just look what's there. Think about the vast, diverse and incredible universe that Lucas has created. The possibilities are absolutely endless and we all know that Lucas changes his mind about a great deal of things. Lucas doesn't have to make them himself though. Tons of people will want to make them. It could be 10 or 20 years from now, but I guarantee it will happen. The Star Wars franchise is pretty much the biggest sucess in entertainment history and given the chance, any film director/producer/writer or whoever, would be an idiot to pass up the opportunity. Maybe George's kids will have something to do with it. Who knows.

Themes carried throughout the saga:
A new trilogy, assuming it would be episodes 7, 8 & 9, could take off in a completely different, new and exiting direction, however, there is still lots to build on from the main story. I feel like a lot of things still need to be resolved. Here are the main themes from the two trilogies, along with what seems like the most logical points for a new trilogy:

Prequel Trilogy: The fall of the Jedi Order
Original Trilogy: The preservation of the Jedi
Third Trilogy: The return of the Jedi Order!

Prequel Trilogy: The rise of Anakin Skywalker
Original Trilogy: The rise of Luke Skywalker
Third Trilogy: The rise of a new Jedi hero (Luke's Nephew)

Prequel Trilogy: The rise of the Sith
Original Trilogy: The fall of the Sith
Third Trilogy: The preservation of the Sith

Prequel Trilogy: The birth of the Empire
Original Trilogy: The Empire Thrives
Third Trilogy: The destruction of the Empire (It wasn't really destroyed in ROTJ. Only a part of it was.)

Prequel Trilogy: The rise of Palpatine
Original Trilogy: The fall of Palpatine
Third Trilogy: The rise of a follower of Palpatine (Yes this theme is hard to carry, since he's dead, but no, he should NOT come back as a clone.)

Prequel Trilogy: The fall of Anakin Skywalker
Original Trilogy: The redemption of Anakin Skywalker
Third Trilogy: Anakin returns as a force ghost to teach what he has learned

Prequel Trilogy: Order 66
Original Trilogy: The result of order 66
Third Trilogy: Order "1138" ...I'll explain later.


My Third Trilogy.
The third trilogy begins another 20 or 30 years after Episode 6. The galaxy is in chaos because the structure of the Empire has fallen apart, yet it still exists, controlled by twisted imperials with lust for power. The Empire is still at large, yet without the Sith, the Empire has no backbone. The whole galaxy is tryin

 

Glad the posts helped you.

I read a dark rumor on the net that GL was talking about remaking EPs. 4-6 but letting someone else take over. I hope & pray I'm wrong.

If there is another trilogy, I would like to see it set thousands of years before the prequels. Maybe cover a subject like Revan, or Exar Kun & Ulic's war against the Republic.

But if it has to be after RotJ, then it should be set during the Vong War.