ST Will IX be the end of the Skywalkers?

We do have shots of Ben's childhood....

Luke was semi-right...it's time for the Skywalkers to end....for the idea that your bloodline means you are destined for great thing to end.



....now I'm not saying Kylo Ren needs to die like Andor Vex.....buuuuuut...

 

After reading the novelisation leaks (which RJ was heavily involved in) where they

Spoiler

dedicated a couple of pages to toddler/teen Ben flashbacks with Leia and Han where he wanted to be a pilot just like his daddy but couldnt control his force powers so thought they percieved him as a monster, mention how Kylo would have frozen the missiles headed towards Leia if he wasnt so surprised that she was not angry at him and just wanted him home, pretty much confirm that Kylo loves Luke but feels hurt by him, confirm how powerful and raw the Reylo bond is, give us more insights into Hux's ambitions, tell us both Rey (definitely) and probably Kylo are instruments of the Cosmic force and perhaps will bring balance? (Im sure they will go more deep into that in 9)

Im positive we will Bendemption and more Skywalker babies. Thats my opinion though!

 

Is there clear evidence that kylo ren killed his classmates/the others at Luke's training academy? Did he really do this or is this just what Luke/ others say he did.. has this been shown in the books or is it just what people say happened?
Asking this because of what we saw in tlj with what people said happened with what actually happened?


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Kylo never mentioned this in the movies. We had first version in TFA via Han and it was stated the same way in Databank and VD:

In TLJ we get version from Luke, from the second lesson when he was lying about "confrontation." This is version now also in Databank:

So typical stuff for SW, version from TFA was half-true because somehow several students left with him.

And in the novelization

Spoiler

it's clear that Luke and Snoke knew each other personally and shared some force knowledge. Snoke's goal was to destroy to Luke and the Jedi. He believed that it will be easy to do it with corrupting Ben so he started to do it early. If Snoke had kind of solid plan for this, it's possible that he started to corrupt other students. Hard to believe that Ben influenced them because he was conflicted himself and even in TLJ Snoke thinks that Kylo will never be full dark-sider.

 

i dont think it will, whether kylo gets redeemed or not, i think he will live, however i wonder why they didnt put some of the sadder kylo ren backstory in the movie and instead put it in a novel. will we get to see that in ep 9 or ..... also i will go with kylo killing the rest of the students with his other students who came along with him, we know how he gets when he is angry or upset, he lashes out even if it means destroying everything his path, unless ep 9 changes that. also it would have good to get snoke and luke knowing each other and that maybe snoke influenced the other student in the movie however there isnt any indication

 

...He literally said he killed them all? Are you being serious right now? Time to take the woobie Kylo goggles off, the dude is a mass murderer and assistance in the genocide of millions of innocent men, woman, and children.

 

I've ordered the novelization, which comes out next week, so that should definitively state things in print. But I'm pretty sure that Kylo killed his fellow students --- but didn't he recruit some of them, too? Who are these 'Knights of Ren' anyway? It would be very odd if we don't see more of Kylo's gang in the next film.

And I do hope that the next film wraps up the Skywalkers. The only Skywalker we'll have left is Kylo and I don't care for the idea of him spawning little Force-babies. I also SERIOUSLY dislike the idea of Luke having some long-lost offspring. I suppose Shmi could have had another kid after Anakin left Tatooine and given it up before she married Lars, but that's a stretch.

I think Kylo is the end of the line. And personally, I'm rooting for Hux to kill him.

 

Kylo Ren never said that he killed all the students. It's already looking about as canonical as Obi-Wan Kenobi's "certain point of view" that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin Skywalker and Uncle Owen's "navigator on a space freighter" story. ESB makes Obi-Wan and Owen both into gigantic liars, too. Imagine still refusing to accept any information from ESB and RotJ that contradicts ANH. Somebody is on the headcanon juice again. Time to revise to new canon information.

Half of the students became the Knights of Ren. Yet, Luke had Han believing that Ben murdered all of the students. Han wasn't there. This same Luke was under a collapsed hut when the entire event went down, which also makes him not a complete witness (Ben, other KOR and R2 perhaps would have a more complete story). Somebody lied again and it wasn't Ben. Luke covered up his failures by removing all of his own guilt from the official version of the story being passed around the universe. Han and Leia believe their son did worse than he really did, while believing that Saint Luke had no guilt at all. The version of the story that Han told was Luke's first version where he never raised his lightsaber over sleeping Ben at all, as well as leaving out the true identities of the Knights of Ren being Luke's students. No wonder Ben is bitter at the lies Luke has been telling.

We don't even know if the students killed even took Luke's side or what the motives were on both sides. We have no idea if it was merely believing Ben (which would suggest Luke was making some major errors elsewhere in his teaching if the other students were quick to turn on him) or if Snoke had gotten to some of the others separately. There's a third option because of Bloodline: what if there were students that thought Ben and Luke (when they hear Ben saying his uncle tried to murder him in his sleep) were BOTH monsters for being related to Vader? They might not have died for taking Luke's side at all. They might have very well acted like Leia's supposed friends and allies who betrayed her even from the Rebellion upon learning of Vader. Remember, this revelation wouldn't just have consequences for Ben hearing of it for the first time at 23, but for twelve other students learning that the universal bogeyman is their teacher's own father he neglected to tell them about. There are also parts of Bloodline that include some doubting that Luke was even being truthful about saving Vader on the Death Star II, since he was the only witness and he was also Vader's son. The same people judging Leia weren't the ones hero-worshiping Luke like the Canto Bight kids. What if some of those students had family who had personal history with Vader? Ben might not have been slaughtering the 'we love Luke' fan club, so much as the 'you're both monsters' angry villager mob.

There's also the possibility that Luke was continuing some of the original Jedi teachings that failed the last time, too. In fact, we know he was. Luke parroted Light vs. Dark garbage even to Gray Rey with the same rejection of what was inside of her that destroyed Ben. Having Dark inside of him since birth (widely discussed even beyond family as a born monster from birth, including rumors about his birth and appearance) was being told that he was born wrong (and yet, he didn't get told what was "wrong" about his genetics until he was 23). Luke's reaction to intimacy in the hut scene that resulted in him ultimately rejecting Rey and going with her was the exact Jedi rule that destroyed Anakin. Now imagine twelve other students that might have had similar issues, not to mention the nepotism issue. Of course, from Ben's side, his own uncle was a hypocrite who was seemingly teaching old Jedi rules about no attachments while he himself was the uncle of one of those students he wasn't supposed to be attached to (not to mention continuing relationships with his sister and brother-in-law), but refusing to show it at the same time. At no time does Luke talk of Ben as his nephew or blood family, but only as teacher and pupil. Padawans aren't allowed to be with their families, remember? Imagine that you're little Ben, who seems to have just wanted to be a pilot like like his daddy, yet his mother seems to chosen for him what he was going to be and it involved giving up family he wanted to love him, but seemed to focus instead on what was inside of him with fear. Doesn't sound like Ben wanted to be a Jedi at all. It's all nice and fine for little kids to join the Padawan school, only to find out that the Jedi Order of old had some nasty rules once they get to puberty that they didn't quite appreciate before and couldn't consent to knowingly. The other students might have also been looking upon uncle and nephew and wondering why they couldn't be with their families, too. Then there's the fact that Ben was probably a bit more talented than the rest of the other students, which would serve to "other" him from the other students, besides just the nepotism issue.

Would that muddy up the waters in this desperate black & white blame game? The truth is in the gray. In the middle. Just like the versions of stories being told.

 

Basically no one has any idea what went on after Ben collapsed the hut on Luke. All we know is that when Luke came to 5 students were dead and 5 went with Kylo.
From this we can speculate that Luke had no idea what really happened, but the fact that half of the students decided to join Ben makes it certain that there were tensions between the students, Kylo and Luke (the reveal about Vader's family connection with Ben could have some impact maybe ?). I believe they will certainly explore this in a novel or something, it can tie in with Snoke's backstory and the relationship between Ben and Luke prior to his turn, also between Luke and Snoke since we know they knew about eachother.

There is alot to be explored and just saying "Ben is a school shooter" is jumping the gun a bit, atleast after TLJ.

 

i guess we will have to wait an see if we get any further clarification in ep 9 but at the end of the day does it really matter i guess, i mean kylo still did others things like be complicit in the destruction of hosnian system, part of a oppressive military regime, killed his father, maimed finn,planning to wipe out the resistance if they hadnt escaped etc and likely was involved in doing not so good things in the 6 years prior to TFA since he was out to prove something to snoke. also Adam has mentioned about how he approaches kylo and kylo's nature associating him with a radicalised extremist since terrorism seemed to be brought up by the directors. so i dont think its just the idea of him killing his classmates that makes some people link him to school shooters, that coupled with his behaviour and reactions.

 

When does "he literally say he killed them all"? Sorry I just totally missed that....

 

If Kylo didn't kill those students, who did?

 

I never saw images of dead students did anyone else? I'm not saying it didn't happen I haven't read everything out there that's why I'm asking


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I saw them in the movie laying on the ground

 

No, sorry, but it's still a headcanon that he killed ALL the students (which is what some in this thread are still clinging to as a known fact) that has been disproven already. In fact, it was disproven in the first film when we saw the Knights of Ren. We just weren't told who the Knights of Ren were explicitly at the time.

We also know that Luke's students numbered exactly thirteen (including Ben). There weren't that many bodies on the ground. There were six.

Luke has already lied about something he didn't actually witness, given that he was under a hut. Han's version of the story was Luke's first version (without Luke holding a lightsaber at all) and with all the students dead. This much is proven. Han and Leia were told Luke's version of the story that paints Ben in a worse light and Luke in a better light.

And no, we don't actually know who sided with who or why. As I said, Bloodline made it questionable that the dead students were killed because they were part of the Luke Skywalker fan club. Former members of the Rebellion even turned on Leia and Luke because of the Vader revelation. We don't even know who swung the first lightsaber when Ben told his version of the story. We don't know why six students took Ben's side. We don't know how much of the damage was committed by those other six students to the other six who went down. Did any of the others cut down someone? Was Snoke preying on anyone else? Luke only woke up after the fact. He knows nothing of that fight.

 

Right, he took half the students but the others were dead in the flashback. They were killed. Didn't Luke say Kylo had killed the rest? I just can't remember.

I think what's most likely is he told them to join him or die. What I think is least likely would be the other students that turned did so by Snoke's prompting not Kylo's and were already killing the rest when Kylo emerged.

But I really don't know. For instance it's also possible that Kylo had been planning this with some of the others before the night Luke drew the lightsaber on him.

 

We don't know who swung the first punch/lightsaber. If Ben didn't, it might actually go a long way to explaining why six other students may have come to his aid. Otherwise, Luke's teaching methods would have had to really suck with a lot of other messed up students if it weren't a bit more gray than totally black & white in a scenario in which Ben, and only Ben, takes 100% of the blame. Your scenario works far better if Luke's version of the tale in which Ben kills everyone was actually accurate. Your scenario ignores six other students. What was said before that fight broke out? Because if there is a heated argument, things could have actually spiraled out of that. The Bloodline cause is an example of where already bitter feelings, side-taking or an argument might have started even amongst the thirteen students outside of Luke. If Ben was having trouble with the revelation from the other students, not just with the family betrayal, it might even explain why Luke was seeing him have more and more problems with the Dark Side in the lead up, but only the act in the hut created a decision to be made. We certainly know that being called or viewed as a "monster" before he had ever done anything was a touchy thing for Ben (people were calling him that since he was a baby!).

As for the headcanon that Ben was already planning this with the six other students, this has actually already been debunked. Rey's statement was that Ben hadn't made a decision on Light vs. Dark at all before that night. She read this straight from the Force Bond. Luke was also wrong about him having already chosen. On the contrary, he was still not giving into Snoke yet, even though Snoke had been working on turning him since he was a literal fetus. That strikes me as someone who was fighting pretty hard to not give in before the betrayal. There's also the fact that Luke already knew Snoke and had even gone to him before.

Stop bringing your politics into this. It's irrelevant.

Luke's public versions of both the hut and the slaughter are already proven false. No way around that.

 

It's your politics. Stop bringing it here. It has nothing to do with Star Wars.

Take up the graying of your black & white headcanon with the writers who are actively shattering it. They don't want Kylo Ren to be the black & white panto villain with the political overtones you envisioned. The tie-in media is now overkill in destroying that narrative on top of TLJ. He's being written consistently now as a more complicated character with a sympathetic story.

Rian Johnson was apparently hired because he wrote Looper, which even has a young boy with telekinesis who can't control what he does. Sound familiar?

 

I don't know why Rey thinks Kylo's decision wasn't made yet. She doesn't say.

Also I didn't see anyone blaming the murdered students for being murdered?

Lastly, Kylo is the Jedi Killer and I really think he killed some of Luke's Jedi. It's not unlike what Anakin did after he turned.