ST Will Luke Have A Child? If So, Where's Mom?

Not that I'm for it, but they could write the character better than the EU did, but I don't want to push it seeing that it's a pretty tough crowd around here.

 

What is "TTT"?

I'm sure there was plenty of other of characters or things he could have done than to kill of ANOTHER "vital" and "high popular" person.

Or Del Ray (clever enough not to repeat the a mistake) knew that it would have an impact but not be that big a deal.

I don't recall the death having any big effect in fandom, certainly not like Chewie's.

Do we?

When were "we" struck by this revelation?

I assume you are being sarky. Yes?

Zahn really did spend a lot of time trying to "big up" the characters of Jade and Karrde. Anytime Karrde appeared Zahn really did try to make Luke and friends as thick as possible so his own hero characters would seem better.

Karrde was unnecessary - Star Wars already had the honorable smuggler - and with the exception of he weak way Zahn freed her from the "last command" she was perfectly fine as a character but should never have been brought back.

To be honest, her "redemption" was too forced, and it would have been much better if she had joined C'Boath against Luke.

There are other women with home Luke had actual chemistry - Akanah (as she appeared in The Black Fleet Crisis - though there was no future in it, it was more "real" than with Jade), Callista (as she appeared in Children of the Jedi and Darksaber) and most especially Gaeriel Captison (with home the sparks sparked)


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Yes, she is known in fandom but to the world at large she doesn't exist. Neither does the EU.

I don't see how that rumor would upset anyone.

If it was fact it would be groan worthy though.

How come you are able to use profanity? I thought this site automatically censored it?

 

If they did include her, but wrote her "better" or changed her in any way, then she wouldn't be Mara Jade.

She'd just a red head with the same name. In which case, her inclusion would be pointless.

Also, I think that adding her as a Mara Jade with a different personality would upset her fans. Not her detractors.

(Sorry = I did it again. I meant to edit the previous post to include this one.)

By the way, I'm the member formerly known as Grytpype

 

Have you watched any movie based on books or comic books? Was Jack Ryan not Jack Ryan? Captain America not Captain Amercia? Spiderman not Spiderman? Batman not Batman?

All of those characters (and countless others) were changed from the source material and were popular. Only a minority of viewers were upset, and they have a bigger audience than SW Legends.

 

She wasnt supposed to be the one to die. At the last minute Lucas vetoed who they planned to kill off instead, however they already had a prophecy plot saying he was going to kill someone. Karen Travis suggested they kill off Mara to the objection of others (including the late Aaron, R.I.P.) but Lucas said yes to her plan and he has (had) the final say... Between that (she didnt earn quite as much hate as Salavator did when "he killed chewie" but quite a few fans did then reject her) and Karen Travis flipping out about them overrulling her super mandos Lucasbooks never rehired her.

People for the most part vastly prefer Anakin in TCW to movie Anakin. Them changing Barriss Offer in TCW vs the books only upset a few, most didn't mind.

As stated by others actors almost always give there own takes on characters, just look at Robert Downing Jr take on Ironman. Yet fans loved it... So yeah, your concept COULD happen but history shows us its only the case if they do it very poorly but if the have a good actress playing her fans will for the vast majority love it and accept it.

 

Ryus who did they originally plan to kill instead of Mara, do you know?

 

You seem to to be arguing against what I said, and yet making the point I'm making.

Changing her from her EU character will upset her fans (be those fans in the majority or minority if the Star Wars community, I know not) - whether the new incarnation would be popular . I could not predict.

I can't comment on Jack Ryan as I've only seen three of the five and not read the books.

However, when has a movie, cartoon or TV series portrayed Captain America, Spiderman, Batman, etc. so radically different that they were no longer resembled the source material?

Because that is what they'd have to Mara Jade to make her an interesting character - and as I said if they introduced a character who was just same name and hair colour it would be her fans that would get upset.

 

Rumors are two fold but the big one is Tenel Ka thus explaining why Allana had such a big plot about getting the throne in the future. The other is Allana herself. Both though vastly explain the prophecy stating he will sacrific the one he loves a thousand fold better than the contrived by Mara dying at his hand Jacen cut all his bridges with his real love ones, especially his padawan ben.

 

And killing her off had no real, major impact, then.

And it was the conflict about the Mandolorian story that caused a rift with Travis, she wasn't outcast because of killing off Jade.

I don't think she was "never re-hired", but said herself she was not doing another. Isn't that right?

I don't see such a difference in Anakin in the movies and TCW that one could be preferred over the other - because they are the same person but but he is evolving - TCW shows how the war makes him mature but he still has the damage underneath.

In truth, we can never really know which characters are most loved because every single fan would have to submit their opinions into one competition and it would have to be truly open - not choosing from a pre-determined list like the Madness poll on the official site.

Barris Offee is not as popular as Mara Jade apparently is.

As stated by others actors almost always give there own takes on characters, just look at Robert Downing Jr take on Ironman. Yet fans loved it... So yeah, your concept COULD happen but history shows us its only the case if they do it very poorly but if the have a good actress playing her fans will for the vast majority love it and accept it.[/quote]


RDJ's Tony Stark is the Tony Stark of the comics - they dropped the alcoholism and replaced it with OCD - but that doesn't make him not like the comic book version.

With the exception of the type of humour in use in the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes movies, RDJ and Law's characters are the characters of the book, Doyle wrote them as gentlemen and this version has them a little more rough around the edges but they are still Holmes and Watson.

My point is that no matter the actress (live action or voice over) Mara Jade is a boring character and the only way to make her interesting is to put a completely different personality to the name.

Her character had nowhere to go after the Thrawn trilogy and had no chemistry with the any of the heroes and, bar an unnecessary cameo in Children of the Jedi and a short story by Zahn himself, the character barely appeared again until Zahn's the Hand two parter and threw her into a nonsensical marriage proposal with Luke despite no history of true affection.

 

I just got an alert that you "tagged" me but I don't know what that means or where it is

 

It means I did an Hogsquattle however I deleted it within 15 seconds after posting since I changed my mind and didn't want this thread to devole into a subjective opinion debate where neither side gives ground about the EU... even though you haters of Mara seem hell bent on trolling the fans of her for a responce (from my certain point of view anyways )

Anyways I'm trying to get this thread back to the topic. Let's just agree to disagree about Mara Jade. A few really hate her, and I respect the right to that opinion, however many loved her.

 

As T-R- said source material is changed all the time. That means you can take the best of Mara Jade, throw away the worst, combine it with something new and voilà ...Crystal Jade or something to that effect. A Mara Jade or something like her will be part of this new trilogy, bet on it.

Sometimes when source material isn't changed all that much really terrible movies like Spider-Man 3 (or all 3 if you ask me) are made. Or really bad movies like Superman 2 (the Richard Donner Directors Cut of Superman 2 is absolutely great on the other hand), then followed by even worse Superman 3, Superman 4, and Superman Returns. These types nearly killed the franchise(s) and took many years to get back true fans that don't just go buy anything with a label on it.

Then sometimes you get a change in some source material like Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight films that were by far the best depiction of Batman, the most realistic anyone has ever seen and by far the most successful. Yet you still find people online (never met one in person) that would suggest Batman (a grown freaking man!) should be running around in his underwear and yet dodging bullets like Neo, you can believe that when you are 8 years old but not when you're 28, sorry. It seems you can't please everyone but I'm sure Disney will use some of Mara Jade's characteristics when/if describing Luke's mate and there is room for her be a hero or s villain or just as a memory mentioned.

 

I might be a subjective opinion to you, but it is fact to me

We haven't gone of topic - this is about the possible wife of Luke, or mother of his child anyway, and since many believe Jade is a possibility, this is a valid discussion point.

And these forums exist for information and debate - a discussion is not invalid because neither person gives ground.

And it isn't about the EU, just Jade as a character.

And not all "we haters of Mara" are "trolls" just looking to rile people up - if you did get riled up I wouldn't bother chatting with you

Making a negative generalization like that sullies the conversation

However, I have notice (on both sides of the Mara divide) that with the exception of anakinfan1, no one is saying why they like or dislike her.

I'm about to start a long drive so it may be a few hours before I'm online (maybe even a day or two) but I'd like fans of Mara to tell us why they like her and why they want her in the ST and for her detractors to say why they feel the opposite - I'll throw down my own thoughts on her as soon as I can

I think this is better than us all just proclaiming our love or dislike of her

Laters

 

The Raimi Spiderman's are not great but were X-Men showed superhero movies could be taken seriously (if you follow me - good actors, decent script, zero cheese) Spiderman showed that they needed to be big, fun action movies with good actors (unfortunately Raimi was just remaking the first three Superman movies - how no one saw that I'll never know)

Superman Returns was a good sequel to the Reeves movies but it was twenty years too late - Singer had gone too far into the light hearted after the too melodramatic X-Men movies - they were good but superheroes need to be fun

Nolan's Batman movies are great - but I don't see how the characters or story differs from the comics? Can you explain?

I don't see them as "realistic" - Nolan choose to start the set the story in a more real world as opposed to Burton's take on Gotham and make the characters less over the top - but both are equally enjoyable

He also made it fun

I know people still complain about the costume but I've heard that some whited him super agile like Neo - I guess he is more agile in the comics and cartoons- but the character is the same

And I will put money on any wife of Luke being nothing like Mara Jade - have Abrams and Kasdan ever even heard of her or have any interest ?

 

Those Spider-Man movies were terrible and those were the first the ever made except for a 1977 made for TV movie. X-Men on the other hand went far off from it's source material but most of them are great and focusing on Wolverine instead of boring characters was a smart move, Days of Future Past was a way of correcting a lot of continuity errors within there own film universe. Superman Returns was okay compared alongside the Reeves movies (we all grew up watching) but it was 20 years too late (like you said) and 20 years out of date, Superman didn't even throw one single punch for two hours of film while Lex Luthor punched his face in, terrible failure.

Nolan's Batman films are great and how the Batman story should be told, my point about them was that only fanboys complain online because he is not wearing Peter Pan's tights and miraculously dodging bullets like Neo and because Ras Al Ghul being 600 years old isn't mentioned on film neither is Bane using venom, that is literally their only complaints. Nolan only made minor changes to the lore, all of which were preferable to watching a comic book on film because they already made a Batman live action comic book movie(s) called Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, both were awful movies and ended Batman films for years. Comic book fans of Batman should either stick to that or watch Adam West or George Clooney again if they prefer that interpretation and leave us adults to a Batman that is realistic.

I feel strongly about those topics, can you tell? We are venturing off topic here so I'll bring it back to Mara Jade. Yes Abrams and Kasdan are well aware that such a character did in fact exist. I don't know much about her because I wasn't much a fan of the uncreative works of the post ROTJ EU. I just realize that the character does have a strong fan-base, probably the largest in all EU except maybe Revan. Disney/LFL will adapt the Mara Jade character one way or another, whether she is hero or villain or even exist in the same time frame as Luke is up to them. I'm expecting Luke to have a son, so yes, I do think we will see a form of her in these films, even if it's only a mention of someone who passed away.

 

I think the accusations of trolling have something to do with things like this: "You mean we might get a chance to watch the old hag die horribly on screen?"
That goes well beyond "I don't like this character." It honestly freaks me out to see such violent wishes and hate towards any fictional character (except maybe Jar Jar), and it seems to dominate any thread where people have tried to have a discussion about Mara.

As for why I like her, I'll repost here from a private conversation about her:
"Her character arc is centered around some BIG flaws, and the guilt she holds over them - her loyalty to the Emperor till the end, her meanness, mistrust and impatience towards people who care about her, etc.
She's also not automatically the best at much of anything; she achieves her skills with the force, a lightsaber, etc. by setting aside her pride and sweating hard in lessons - another thing thing that appealed to me greatly in her.
She's rare among redemption stories because she isn't redeemed by love, destiny, God, or getting laid (a truly awful trope) - but simply by deciding that she can try to do good in the world, whatever her flaws. Luke just helped her feel like she had that option.
One of the biggest disservices I've seen done to her is Zahn attempting to remember her through rose-colored glasses during her time as Hand. Her somehow still being pretty much a hero in that period undermines her redemption. That's why I'd love to see her in Rebels as a real enemy to the heroes (even with a glint of regret in her eye). It'd be a great way to set her up for a retelling, with the same kind of weight we ascribed to her guilt when it was up to our imaginations in Heir to the Empire."

Luke will always be my favorite, but an earnest genuine hero like him needs a foil to appeal to modern audiences unironically (even true in 1977). He is greatly deepened and seasoned by having a more cynical, humorous character alongside him. At first, this was Han, but Han's character arc inevitably leads him (or should have led) to the more responsible family man. When Han and Leia settle down, someone needs to take over that role, and I thought Mara fit perfectly. Her black humor and jokes at the expense of both herself and Luke are one of the things I remember most from my first readings of the era. Importantly, I can't imagine Luke falling for the kind of pretty, doe-eyed swooning maiden that some authors tried to set him up with. He seems to be attracted to women who challenge him and compete as his equal; I hugely respect him for that, I wouldn't want an insecure Luke who feels threatened by such teasing. So many people treat him as "Luke, famous war hero", but when they're together he can feel like the reckless, romantic farmboy who would race down canyons in a hotrodded speeder and shoot womprats (everytime she calls him 'farmboy' I can imagine the playful smirk, and my heart skips a beat), while she's also capable of understanding and supporting his responsibilities and challenges as he tries to rebuild the Jedi Order.
There's a great deal more to be said, but I'll leave this here to discuss. I understand that many of you won't agree, or will remember or interpret things differently, but please do recall that she won over a great many fans - we can disagree about interpretation without personal accusations.

 

It would be ludicrous of me to make any accusations of sexism here, but some of the things I've seen directed towards Mara in the past have pushed buttons around attitudes towards non-traditional female characters in general. Mostly the vitriol just seems out of proportion with the discussion at hand.

Very good point, Allston was Mara's author to me in a big way. The point where there was less of what I loved in her characterization was also the point where I started distancing from the EU in general. NJO is the last thing I remember very fondly, but certainly not for the way Mara was handled.
Irrespective of how she's been written by any particular authors - let's discuss how she could be done in the NU and new films. I think all our polarized impressions are to some extent cherry-picked from her best and worst appearances - I'm just trying to explain how I imagined her at her best, because that's the character I hope to see more of going forward.

 

it is obvious that no one on these threads like the eu or their characters. You look foward to it being erased.

I love Mara because she is fiery and talented. I like that she and Luke found each other. She was the perfect foil to Luke. Luke being measured, calm, and centered in peace; mara fiery, and passionate. They were great together. I loved her in the NJO. We see another side to her. We see that she has feelings and loves to be with Luke. I thought some of the best writing in Star Wars history was how she and Luke interacted during that series. It was real love. She had mellowed a little. Luke mellowed her a little. I like how she was strong and held back that Vong virus. She had an iron will and was very powerful. Sadly her character went to hell in Dark nest, and LOTF. But for the most part she was cool.

 

Can we take this back to the EU thread? This is supposed to be about Luke and his children (potential). A little side tracking is fine (I admit to playing in it) but that's where the other character belongs.

That being said, I can see Luke taking on 'adult orphans' in E-7 as apposed to biological children as the hole would just be too big a jump for most of the movie going audiance.

 

You haven't gone further than "X is absolutely ****ing awful", which is absolutely ****ing fine. (And a good crack about the pregnancy stuff.)
Some people have posted death fantasies and on worse sites than this I've seen far far worse.

This isn't being said to try and delegitimize "your side". There are no sides and everyone's subjective reasons for liking or disliking a character can be just as valid, and a past troll doesn't taint the argument of someone who agrees for utterly different reasons. It would be ludicrous because I don't believe anyone in this argument has been/is sexist. I'm just trying to explain why people might be made uncomfortable by the level of passionate hate that just filled most of a page of the thread. People asked. We can disagree (and do it with colorfully foul language) in the EU thread without going that far.

My apologies to anyone who was made to feel accused by that.