"Will of the force". What does this mean?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by AnakinSucks, Jul 11, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: SithStarSlayer
  1. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    But the force was in action just a few years before ANH, and I doubt that this Motti was the first to feel the force - as in REALLY feel it.

    Today, we have highly dubious claims of gods getting up to all sorts of crazy shenanigans, and some people believe them without hesitation (or so they say).

    So, if the Jedi were recently in action, I think that every one under the sun would be raving about them!


  2. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Many physicists hypothesise that there is an infinite number of possibilities that are covered in other "parallel" universes.

    And then there is the Many Worlds interpretation.

    Lucas said that he considers the EU to be like a parallel Universe.

    I thought that he might have been thinking along these lines.

  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Obi-Wan beating Grievous shouldn't have happened?

    How about Grievous beating anybody?
  4. Dark_Faith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2004
    star 3
    I think he means because Obi Wan was the underdog at the end of all of those fights, yet still managed to come out alive AND the victor.

    Maul- Obi Wan was hanging for his dear life, he was defeated and should have been killed, but not only survives but kills Maul, by using the force.

    Grievous- He was hanging off the platform thousands of miles high up, with no lightsaber, no weapon and Grievous was advancing on him, he was defeated and should have died, but once again with the force he was able to grab the blaster and not only survive but kill Grievous.

    Vader- Vader/Anakin was way more powerful and stronger than Obi Wan but he won because he gained the higher ground. I guess you could say, metaphorically, it mean the higher moral ground, and it was influenced by the force that he not only survived but defeated Vader and could have killed but didn't.
  5. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    The guy had a personal collection of Jedi lightsabers, which would suggest that he's had some experience in dealing with them. Not to mention the fact that he's huge, very fast, has four arms, four lightsabers, a pistol, he's made entirely of steel, he can cling to steel surfaces, he has bodyguards which have given Obi-Wan trouble in the past, and Obi-Wan is surrounded by thousands of battle droids. Obi-Wan should have bought the farm that day, but his luck, timing and planning, as usual, brought him out on top.
  6. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I think the answer there is simply that the Jedi numbered only in the thousands and that not every one in the galaxy had ever seen a Jedi.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    While the Force exists, not everyone believed in it. This was evident by Nute Gunray and Rune Haako having never seen the Jedi in action before. Only going by a reputation which is dubious at best, until they see the Jedi in action. And then realize that they live up to their reputation. Anakin wasn't familar with the Force, but believed the Jedi to be invincible. Jabba was never impressed by the Jedi. By the OT, misinformation spread by Palpatine's agents allowed people like Motti to disbelieve in the Force. Seeing it as a hokey religion or simple tricks that don't work as well as one would like to think.

    While the GFFA is an advance society, religion still exists. People still believe in their faith. And the Force is something that has proven itself time and again. The Jedi and the Sith both believe in the Force, but they take their own view. The Jedi try to understand the Force and it's mysteries. The Sith try to control it.
  8. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Yes.

    But people have never seen the "Devil man", or "Allah", or "Jesus", or the "Holy Ghost", or"Thor", or "Apollo" etc.

    They still worship/believe in them however.


    And I am sure that Vader was killing people with the Force right left and centre. Well, I am at least sure the incident with this Motti was not the first of its nature.

    Word would have been spread surely.

  9. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    He strangled a Moff just a few days before ANH in the Han Solo trilogy.

    Thinking about it, I wouldn't say Motti didn't necessarily not believe the Force existed, but that it wasn't comparable to his technological terror.

  10. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Vader should have killed that fool then.

    If I knew that some guy could choke me to death without laying a finger on me, I would likely stay silent, or more likely quiz Vader on the subject without petty insults.

    If his Death Star were so great, the results would speak for themselves.
  11. anakinandpadmedoomed Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2007
    star 4
    [face_laugh] i agree..grievous shouldnt of beat nobody...he looked stupid..IMO..[face_laugh]
  12. SithStarSlayer Ntwadumela: he who greets w/ fire Prequel & SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Grievous was like that sword-twirling dude in Indiana Jones.
    I loved how Han (in his fedora) just turned around and shot him (first) before he could attack.

    :p

    What would've been UBER-sweet is if Kenobi had just whipped his saber from across the space between them and impaled him. The line that followed would've drawn an applause: "So much for Dooku's training"
  13. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    So Motti's a schmuck...I thought that was already quite well-established. :p
  14. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    The will of the force sounds like the Jedi version of, "you are fulfilling your destiny" / "it is unavoidable."

    But Maybe you're just replacing one religion with another. People used to honestly think that religion = truth, now scienc3e is the new religion. Eh, out of the two, I'd take science, if we were picking teams in gym class or something.
  15. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    Will of the force has nothing to do with combat or political and/or social beliefs. The will of the force is a reference to it's natural flow which is directional and hamonious with the preservation of all life (since midichlorians exist in ALL living things) The destruction of any life and/or the passive flow of the force is counterproductive to the will of the force; hence the term 'dark-side' of the force. When beings take this path, their destructive nature blinds them to the truth and causes chaos in the balance of the force. This is why dark side users become corrupted with sickly skin and ghastly yellow eyes; because they are opposite the will of the force.

    In terms of the lore, it's a way to create a morality anchor for the heroes and villains to struggle around and create drama. Lucas likely did this to create the themes he wanted from his Joseph Campbell studies of myth without attaching his creations (the films and the lore) to any religious doctrine in the real world.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Huh? I thought it was because of getting hit with lightning!

    I mean, that wouldn't make sense because objects hit with lightning in the real world never turn out that way, but Pablo Hidalgo said it and therefore it must be true, right?
    I mean, my understanding is that Pablo Hidalgo is the highest level of canon and is infallible just like the Databank, correct?
    Or am I simplifying things too much? [face_talk_hand]
  17. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    To a Jedi, I guess, everything obeys the will of the force; it's like dharma.

    From the OS (EU part): The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him. Always rang true to me.
  18. MisterVader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2006
    star 3
    The will of the Force is the collective will of all living things in the galaxy manifested in an energy field.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Even though he acts completely unharmed and certainly unravaged a little later in the scene?

    Oops, I forgot -- that was just Ian's acting, based on his idea of the character. Not canon.

    But GL left it in the movie, so VOILA! it becomes canon.
  20. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Science is not a religion.

    We have a scientific method that allows us to come up with the best possible answers based on what we have observed to the best of our ability.

    And if we make a mess of something, then there are built in mechanisms that allow us to go back and fix it.

    The two have nothing in common.

    Unless of course you meant "Scientology" ;)
  21. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    ^^^^

    "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (Albert Einstein, 1954)

    "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." (Albert Einstein)
  22. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Yes. He probably said these things after somebody misinterpreted previous statements of his as evidence for Einstein being religious, in the common sense of the word.

    Humans just like to use "God" to fill a gap.

    If a race has hyper-drive however, it is safe to say that they have distanced themselves so much from the notions of gods.


  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Why? In Star Trek, many worlds have achieved warp speed travel, yet they still have their religious beliefs. The fifth Star Trek film alone dealt with the concept of religion, by highlighting the religions of humans, Vulcans, Romulans and Kilngons. In Star Wars, there is nothing that disapproves that people who live on Coruscant or Naboo or Tatooine do not have religious beliefs. In the films alone, it is the Force that is the common denominator. That's why Admiral Ackbar and General Jan Dodonna, two non Jedi/Sith, use the term "May the Force be with you." Same with Han to Luke. In the eu, there are worlds that have their own religions and are just as civilized as the next world.

    As advanced as we are on Earth, we still have many who believe in a deity or deities. Just because you don't believe, doesn't make it any less so in real life or in a science fiction/fantasy setting.
  24. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Well, in real life there are people who are religious. My opinion is that this must come to an end, as "Faith" puts an excuse into the equation for those who want to gain power. Humans are violent enough as it is, but science (the method - it is not a person) is winning every debate and there are mountains of evidence that make the idea of gods laughable.

    In sci-fi, you are quite right. I have no idea how these Klingons manage to get dressed in the morning, let alone use warp-drive.

    Because of the religious tension that exists today I would have hoped that those involved with Star Wars would have tried to take the religious aspects, like those that appear in the novelisation of ROTS, out of the equation.

    Unfortunately, this was hard to do because of the OT.

    In the end, the concept of The Force is very confusing. I think that it would have made for a better script if a sci-fi explanation of it were given, in full.

    Though part of me thinks that the Jedi fell because of their superstition.

    Ps. It seems to me that we are not very advanced at all here on Earth, with Countries fighting over whose god is superior (though in reality it is about human nature ? ?gods? just make it worse!).



  25. SithStarSlayer Ntwadumela: he who greets w/ fire Prequel & SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    For me: religion = doctrine and that has more to do with man than our Creator.
    Confuses alot of people is that there is only One, who is G-d, but he has many names.

    Shemot HaElohim

    Almighty God graciously chose to reveal His Name (i.e., His character and presence by means of His acts and deeds) to the world through the Jewish people. Through the ancient Hebrew Patriarchs, through the great deliverance God effected by means of His servant Moses, through the eloquent oracles and admonitions of the Hebrew prophets, and most especially through the manifestation of the Mashiach Yeshua: in all these ways God has revealed His Name. In fact, the Scriptures make it clear that the name of Yeshua is so vital to our correct apprehension of reality that without it we are literally lost, since we are told ?there is no other name by means of which it is necessary for us to be saved? (Acts 4:12).

    YHWH

    The Hebrew letters are named Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh, and the proof of his existence can be found on a mountaintop in Israel. His name, written in hebraic form, can be found in Satellite images. In appearance, YHWH is the third person singular imperfect of the verb "to be", meaning, therefore, "He is". This explanation agrees with the meaning of the name given in Exodus 3:14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person ? "I am". God exists by himself for himself, the uncreated Creator who doesn't depend on any concept, force or anyone else; therefore "I am that I am".

    Because of Yeshua's sacrifice, all (Gentiles and Jews alike) have a path to know the Father for eternity. Knowing G-d isn't about religion, its about faith. The universe was formed out of the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet. We only see them in 2-d...
    That's why we can't fully comrehend the mystery of His ways.

    Psalm 119 tells the story. The 176 verses of the Psalm are divided into 22 stanzas of eight lines each: one stanza for each letter of the Hebrew alphabet. In the first stanza, each of the 8 lines begin with aleph, the first letter of the alphabet; in the next stanza, each of the lines begin with bet, the second letter, and so on through the entire alphabet. G-d is The Great Mathematician, and His grand design can be found by studying the Hebrew texts.



Moderators: SithStarSlayer
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.