Will ROTS change your opinion about GL picking SLJ to play Mace Windu?

what's the problem with samuel? this party's over - no one could have delivered that like he did plus the way he arrogantly and emphatically said anakin will not be trained (TPM) and "young skywalker take a seat" is samuel as mace and it's good. w/o those deliveries we would be wondering why anakin begins to think the jedi council harbors baaaaad feelings about this.

 

From my point of view, Windu defeating Palpatine and being stopped and killed by anakin's intervention is great. I really don't understand your dislike for Windu character. To me, nobody among 5000 Jedi able to defeat the sith is what would have made the story absurd, and the jedi simply useless. Windu is considered from the beginning as one of the main characters (he even appeared already in early drafts of the OT). He is not just a secon level Jedi like it seems you consider him. There have been things in the story that I haven't liked, things that I would have preferred had happened another way, but I don't consider the saga sucks just because something didn't fit my conception of the story.

About your three points.

1 - I don't think at all it has been made in order to satisfy Sam Jackson. For that matter the ultra powerful Palpatine is just because Mcdiarmid begged for it.
2 - Totally right here. It looks stupid. I don't think it was so violent or cruel to have Han shooting first. After all he is the kind of character who does those things.
3 - Maybe the worst point of the entire saga. It's ridiculous. Whenever I see the time where Han tricks the soldiers to get out the bunker, and then they are trapped becasue of the little monkeys... I think guys, have you forgotten that you have armours and laser weapons??

 

HE

WAS

THE

PERFECT

CHOICE


nuff said



70

 

Jedi-Ethan and R8hitman
I am glad that GL's decision did not hurt this movie for you-for me that scene was a disaster. I just wanted to make it clear that I did not want Sidious to be all powerful. I was generally ok that Yoda could stand up to him. I would have preferred a more definitive win by Sidious just because it was a fight we were anticipating since like '82.

If I were king of for a day and could affect the Mace vs. Sidious scene, here is what I would have done:

1) I actually think the Yes vote worked perfectly in this scene. I would have made it perfectly clear that Sidious was dragging the fight out waiting for Anakin's arrival. That wouldn't be too hard as there are already hints to it in the fight. GL really just needed to "confirm" it the other way, but I would have made it even clearer.

2) If I had to let Mace disarm Palpatine, then the lightning scene would have gone like the book. Sids loses power just as he is about to make Mace eat his lightsaber showing that Sidious clearly could have killed Mace, but he wanted Anakin's choice to drive Mace's demise. Instead we get a struggling Mace that was in trouble but nowhere near the extent of the book, and GL threw out his lines like "he is too powerful for me" etc. Another bone thrown to Mace when he didn't need to be "boosted" anymore; GL just dumped on the Emperor more.

 

It would have weakened, in fact destroyed the drama and climax of that scene. If was editor of your work it would become a deleted scene, and I'm not sure if I would include it in the DVD docummentary.

 

So LordVicious, you basically think the book is the "true" explanation of the scene, and the movie was just something to cater to Jackson??


I dont think thats it. I think that Sam was picked because of Windu's status...NOT Windu's status being boosted because of Sam.

(which is what I think you're saying)

 

The *name* Mace Windu appeared. Tattooine was originally called Utapau, that doesn't mean that Utapau as we saw it in Revenge of the Sith was the homeworld originally concieved for the OT. The character and the name associated are completely different.

I'm sure you're aware of this, I'm just clarifying the point.

As it happens though, "Mace Windu" was the first name invented for the SW saga:

So it makes sense that Lucas would give the name to a very powerful Jedi as opposed to a "background" one.

Actually, I think the main problem is not how powerful Mace (or Yoda, or Sidious) are, but that from Episode II onwards, all but the main Jedi look useless. I mean, ok, I'd expect them to be less skilled - but to such a degree where they can be overwhelmed by blaster fire? Yoda and Obi-Wan have no problem mopping up three times the amount of Clones that Ki-Adi fell to.

As for SLJ as Mace Windu... I didn't mind at all. I love SLJ, but I didn't like Mace Windu's character (in EP II or III) that much, because he didn't seem like he could have been a Jedi Master - "This party's over!" I mean, what? And that look of hatred/anger towards Dooku on his face. What?

Mace Windu was written as if "SLJ was a Jedi Master", not as if "SLJ was playing a Jedi Master." The EU can make up all the "vaapad" and "channelling darkness" excuses it likes, but I was pretty annoyed by it.

It's like "practise what you preach Mace".

 

Let me ask you something....

Does Sam Jackson look angry in this picture?
[image=http://rabittooth.com/800x600StarWarsWallpapers/MaceWinduWallpaperV2.jpg]

How about Yoda??
[image=http://simonz.web.elte.hu/wallp/yoda-ep3-hero-eng.jpg]



Because with the exception of Yoda being a muppet and Windu being a human, they look like they have almost the EXACT same type of expression but Windu get's called angry, while Yoda's dedicated and serious.

 

Haha they totally do look the same. Dedicated...that's bull. Anyway, lordvicious...he said those lines like "he's to powerful" to TRICK Anakin...yeah...sometimes bad guys lie.

 

It may be a valid point that Mace Windu was only written the way he was because of Jackson's influence. If this is the case, it would have been better to have an unknown actor play the role so that the story wouldn't be sacrificed. Jackson is good for the character, but it would be better to have an inferior actor than an inferior plot.

1) I actually think the Yes vote worked perfectly in this scene. I would have made it perfectly clear that Sidious was dragging the fight out waiting for Anakin's arrival. That wouldn't be too hard as there are already hints to it in the fight. GL really just needed to "confirm" it the other way, but I would have made it even clearer.

2) If I had to let Mace disarm Palpatine, then the lightning scene would have gone like the book. Sids loses power just as he is about to make Mace eat his lightsaber showing that Sidious clearly could have killed Mace, but he wanted Anakin's choice to drive Mace's demise. Instead we get a struggling Mace that was in trouble but nowhere near the extent of the book, and GL threw out his lines like "he is too powerful for me" etc. Another bone thrown to Mace when he didn't need to be "boosted" anymore; GL just dumped on the Emperor more.

This sounds like a good description. Probably the best way to handle the scene would be if Palpatine simply hits Mace with lightning and suddenly stops. Mace tries to kill him and everything else remains the same. This would have preserved the Emperor's image of "unlimited power" instead of catering to the demands of Samuel Jackson.

 

A SITH LORD?.... Who else coulda delivered that my friends??

 

SLJ was perfect. 'Nuff said.



Violetsaber

 

That's a good point, but I think being in battle is a different to having your blade at someone's throat and looking really, really p*ssed at them. (Mace doesn't look particularly angry in that picture anyway... well, one half of his face does. It's weird.)

I think that the Jedi as a whole were made far less "serene" than we were led to believe in the OT - take Obi-Wan's fight with Vader (in the OT). He was calm, collected and cool in the way he spoke - I'd have liked to see more of this among the experienced Jedi masters in the PT.

Mace is simply the worst offender in the anger department, he just seems to be in a constant mood throughout RotS - and yes, while it's understandable due to the war, what's not understandable is that no-one calls him on it. Were I a Jedi I'd have been just as concerned with how quickly he loses his patience with Skywalker in the Council chambers as I would be with Skywalker's tantrum.

But I guess that's the point isn't it. The Jedi have all become arrogant idiots, which is why Sidious is able to play them so easily.

 

I've been hearing this a lot lately...what specific evidence supports the claim that the Jedi got too arrogant?

 

Everytime an African American looks serious or determined people jump up say, "he's aggressive" or "militant" or "angry".

People need to get over that crap. I understand that a lot of it is subconscious but c'mon now, this is getting ridiculous. Mace isnt "angry" at all.

The only way people wouldnt say he looked angry was if he walked around all day looking like this

[image=http://simonz.web.elte.hu/poster/ep3-poster-mace.jpg]

Which IMO would have looked kind of silly.

 

I was going to post an opinion on the topic, but scanning the thread and seeing the race card being pulled in every 10th post, it hardly seems worth the effort.

 

He was fine.

 

It's probably all for the best anyway.

 

Love Mace, Love SLJ, nobody could have been better.

 

It should been The Apollo creed dude from the rocky flicks even though he's older now...isnt Carl Weathers his name?

 

yep it's carl weathers,and no that would have been horrible. Carl Weathers..oh man.

 

Something really funny on the dvd commentary is where Lucas says that SLJ wanted a good death scene - he didn't want to be stabbed in the back in the dead of night.

Well, both those things happened:

Anakin 'stabbed Mace in the back' and it was in 'the dead of night'.

lol.

 

Rocky: "I thought you said be cool"

Apollo: "That WAS cool!!"

[image=http://i.1asphost.com/RockyFan/apollopic.JPG]

 

Good Lord.
I'm thinking "clearly visible real arm" strapped unconvincingly behind back and gory prosthetic a la Predator whenever I picture Mace getting his hand removed from now on...