Will the Completion of the Saga Change the Way We Look at the EU

I think, like some of the others said, that EU will be even more popular after Ep.III is done with since it'll be the last SW movie!

I also think that the completion of the saga won't change our view of EU much. Most EU books deal with post-ROTJ so it's pretty far removed from Ep.III.

I would also like to add that while I'm certainly not enthusiastic about some of EU there's some books & characters that I really love!

 

I like some of the EU. I think that the PT makes me look at it somewhat differently. I read the Thrawn Trillogy when it first came out. Some people think that they shoud be 7 8 and 9. I think that when I first read them I accepted them as the sequel trillogy. Not anymore. I'm writing my own version of episode seven right now.

 

I don't think that any of the EU will ever officially be considered Cannon. If YOU wrote Star Wars, would you just accept all these other stories that fill in all your gaps? I certanly would not.

If you want cannon, nothing but the 6 movies are cannon, but that does not say that one can pick and choose as to what they want to believe as part of the story. Remember what GL said, "It's all fake".

After EP 3 comes out, I will continue to not care about the EU.

 

Cannon go boom. Canon is an endless debate.

Anyway, it may change the way some people see it, but I think a lot of us are already stubbornly set in our ways when it comes to looking at it as either counting or not existing.

 

God, I love these boards!

It's amazing how a topic posted months ago that dissappeared can "come back from the dead" to get some fresh insight & new thoughts.

I found it interesting that many of the anti EU posts were geared towards stories told post ROTJ. Though, as I stated earlier, I have never read any of them, I also would have no interest in these kinds of stories. That's not to say they are good,bad or just ok. It merely means that for me, the saga ends when ROTJ ends. I chose to love the SW saga based on THAT storyline. I have no interest in what the OT characters do after ROTJ, just as I have no interest in what went on before TPM. That is why I wanted to focus this discussion ONLY on the timeline between Ep3 & ANH.

Perhaps it was a mistake to use the word "cannon". Maybe it is better to ask if those of you who would not normally read any EU, be more "accepting" of stories told in this timeline. I guess MY answer would have to be "it depends".

While I feel there will still be much to tell during this timeline, I really don't want to see any PT characters portrayed in ways that conflict with what we have come to know of them onscreen. The same can be said of any OT characters introduced during this timeline. It would also depend on how heavy GL's involvement towards any unanswered questions. Saying this, I also know that liberties must be taken in order to "flesh out" these novels.

Oh well, I don't know. Maybe I should just take my own advice that I've posted many times on the 3SA board........we don't need to be told/shown EVERYTHING.

ANYWAYS........thanks for the responses


Oldie

 

At the end of the day, if it doesn't contradict the movies, it's canon.

 

"Defining the Saga. If someone were to ask me to describe the Saga in it's simplest terms, I'd have to describe it as the story of the rise, fall, & redemtion of Anakin Skywalker."

If someone were to ask me to describe the saga I would say, "R2. Its all about R2".

The prequels don't change the way I think about the EU. I think the EU is great and continuity problems don't really bug me. I really am not too concerned with perfect continuity. It must be from being a Star Trek fan(Star Trek's continuity is pretty messy, especially now that Enterprise is around).

 

If someone were to ask me what the whole Saga is about, I would say it's about Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Honestly, the movies actually don't have any effect on my attitude/interpretation of the EU. Quite simply put, movies and movies and EU is EU. If I don't like a book, it's entirely due to the writing style and characterizational discrepencies than anything else.

Aunecah

 

I used to be into the EU. But since the PT came out, my main focus has been on the movies.
Afterwards, I'll probably lok into some tween 3 and 4 EU. Depending on what they crank out. If it's endless 'Dark Jedi' and 'Jedi survivors' just because the author wants to write about a force user, then you could probably count me out.
It's like fan films. Everyone's a Jedi!
Or a fighter pilot

 

This should settle any canon debate you guys have had in this thread:

"Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that the Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays." Things that Lucas Licensing does not consider official parts of the continuous Star Wars history show an Infinities logo or are contained in Star Wars Tales. Everything else is considered canon."

 

Most EU books deal with post-ROTJ so it's pretty far removed from Ep.III.

Actually, there are absolutely loads of Clone Wars books scheduled for release in 2003-2004 and, considering the NJO is coming to a close, the focus of the EU will maintain detail in the Clone Wars era, and eventually move on to chronicle the time between Episode III and ANH (of which will depict the Imperial times in the Star Wars Saga).

So, rest assured, the EU isn't going to be stuck in the Post-RoTJ era.


Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day

 

I support the comments made above about:

1. SW was never a fairy tale, but a space opera/drama

If you want a nice, happy tale where noone dies and everyone's happy, go watch Disney, as said above by Jedi_Satimber. SW is not a fairy tale/happy little fantasy, nor should it be one, and IMHO, if it were a fairy tale then many people would not watch it and would not have become fans. SW is a tale of good against bad, life and death, and if it were a fairy tale/happy fantasy, why did so many people die in the movies? The destruction of Alderaan, the Death Stars, Han being frozen in carbonite, they are not "happy" topics. They are heavy topics not suited to happy little stories where everyone's invincible.

Darth_Jamus, the EU is not just putting the characters through misery and stupidity. For years in the EU, everyone was happy: Leia and Han were married, they had kids, Luke had finally found a soul-mate, and he and Mara were training Jedi like mad. The galaxy was pretty much running itself, and our heroes could relax. As well as this, the books and trilogies and duologies are spread out: they are not bang bang bang one right after another, but with gaps of a half-year, year, few years between each one. And the characters did not have to suffer and suffer and suffer. Yes, they went through hard times, but by the end of the book/series/trilogy/whatever, the problems were usually solved, and everyone was happy. There are some places where this doesn't occur, but this is most often the case. The EU has not coloured SW with grimy, never-ending realism, rather, it has become a source of enjoyment for fans worldwide, and its' realism adds to its' charm. Why read stories about Luke, Leia, Lando, and Han just breezing through every challenge? It just wouldn't be realistic. The GFFA is portrayed in the movies as a place like ours, with advanced technology, and like here, some things just can't be done. The EU has continued the story told in the movies, in my opinion, with great effect, without ruining any of the characters or having unbelievable villains. Sure, there's crappy book,s but they are a minority in a sea of brilliant stories. As Jedi_Satimber said, where's the credibility if a certain group is invincible? The EU shows that the central group of characters isn't invincible, which is a lot more credible than thinking that Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, and Lando could live forever.

And to the original question, the EU probably will rise to more prominence - hungry fans wanting more stories. There are Clone Wars novels coming out about several of the movie characters - Mace Windu and Shaaq Ti off the top of my head, and the authors I'm sure are being as careful as possible to keep the characters in sync with the movies.

 

Will the Completion of the Saga Change the Way We Look at the EU

hard to say, for some it will, for others it wont.. it wont change for me, ill still love the books and continue buying the books.

 

At the end of the day, if it doesn't contradict the movies, it's canon....well said JediLegOBlock
!

While mistakes were made in the early days (especially in the Marvel comic series)...the majority of EU has both the approval of Lucasfilm, and has been checked for any storyline conflicts with GL's vision for the films.

When the SW movies are completed, EU will fill in the gaps, answer the questions, and develop characters...that would hinder GL's ability to tell the important story of Anakin Skywalker's fall and later redemption from the dark side.

 

I think canon is anything that is not absolutely teeming with spoofy esq event's or character's i.e. The Glove of Darth Vader series and Children of The Jedi <---- Just by reading their name's it want's to make you smash your head through your computer screen.

<[-]> Saber

 

Not smash head through computer screen. Smash computer screen against wall .

No, just hearing those names actually gives me this strange urge to find some matches...

 

"I don't think that any of the EU will ever officially be considered Cannon. If YOU wrote Star Wars, would you just accept all these other stories that fill in all your gaps? I certanly would not. "

If GL didn't want people to think of EU, as Star Wars, then he wouldn't have authorized it. Maybe you wouldn't accept someone else?s stories about your universe. Maybe we wouldn't either. But the fact is, George Lucas has.


Before I joined the JC, the thought never even crossed my mind to not consider the novels comics and video game part of Star Wars. Were did people get this idea? I don't understand.

Will the completion of the Star Wars saga change the way we look at the EU?

Probably. As we have seen with the PT EU that has been published lately, George has taken a much keener interest in making sure that the EU and his films tie closely in together. If this continues, (and why wouldn't it) some people may be forced to grudgingly accept the EU. Also, after the last movie has been released, people looking the get there daily dose of Star Wars, will have no where to turn but to the EU. It may change some people's opinions of it. And it may change how authors go about writing in it. They will most likely have much more freedom to explore and expand.

 

I don't and never will consider the EU Star Wars. Lucas considers it a parallel universe that exists outside his own. I would wager he allows it to go on because it's an easy way to make money without doing anything. He has said he doesn't get too involved in the parallel universe, that he tries not to think about it, and when asked, he couldn't come up with a single EU story he liked.

He's more involved in the prequel EU than the trainwreck of the post-ROTJ EU, which explains why the prequel EU is truer to the saga than the post-ROTJ stuff. But still, it isn't part of SW. It's a sometimes entertaining tie-in product. And I am glad of that. I hate to think of the Big Three ending up as the EU has made them -- Luke married to a former Imperial pop tart who's emasculated him and mystifyingly gets new promotions/titles every book with no explanation or justification; Leia being spat on and disrespected (her own brat of a daughter smirks to herself about how great she is with the Force, unlike her inept mother) and the fact that she completed her Jedi training being completely ignored, her youngest kid dying, and her husband walking out on her; Han, turned into a drunk who blames his youngest kid for Chewie's death and then runs out on his wife and kids.

In the EU, the Big Three are made into incompetent fools who get rings run around them by snot-nosed upstarts, who are made invincible while the frailties of the Big Three are not only exaggerated but constantly remarked on. The Big Three are in awe of the EU characters, telling them they're braver, stronger, etc., deferring to them at all times. It's disgusting.

Here's why I say the EU is not SW: SW would not turn Luke Skywalker into a whipped lapdog of a harpy like Mara, making her a Jedi master when she doesn't qualify, letting her walk all over him and everyone else. SW would not make Luke so insensitive to his sister, not offering her any comfort when she is tortured or when her child dies. SW would not make Leia into a workaholic, and suddenly render her "half-trained and uncertain in the Force" when she already completed her training, and it certainly wouldn't have her telling Mara, of all people, that she is braver. SW would not turn Han into a booze-guzzling lout who walks out on his family, then moons over some stupid girl who dumped and betrayed him.

So no, the release of Episode III will not change the way I look at the EU. I will still regard the EU as a lousy ripoff of SW, which brings unending misery to the GFFA and undermines the movies and the movie characters, belittling them in favor of the pet EU character du jour. It saddens me to see Luke Skywalker go from Jedi, hero of the Rebellion, savior of his father, to the moony-eyed, spineless acolyte of a former Imperial assassin. Was this what Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker sacrificed themselves for? Sad. If they had graves, they'd be flipping over in them.

 

Nicely said Shelley! But I'm going to have to disagree with you about Prequel EU being better than OT EU. Though the Prequel books don't have Mara, their writing style is absolutely horrible. I'm a very fast reader and it takes me (usually) an hour or two to read a three-hundred paged book. But it takes me five or six to read the Prequel books - the worst is Rogue Planet.

I try not to let the Saga influence my opinion of the EU, but sometimes I do wish the books were better - SW would be so much cooler that way, if we didn't have to constantly debate between what's canon and what's not. It's just horrible when a book messes up the characterization of your favorite characters and make them resign from the Jedi Order and all that kind of stuff.

There are some very good stories told in the EU - Traitor is one of my all time favorites, but most of the books, unfortunately, are pathetic. I think the authors should really spend more time looking at the movies and studying the characters' characterization. There are a dozen fanfic writers here who write infinitely better than the EU authors - well, I should say their stories are better than that of the EU authors', I suppose.

So no - like Shelley, my opinion of the EU won't be changed by the completion of the Saga. The only way it will be changed is if the books get better.

I just want to read a good story.

Aunecah

 

Nicely said Shelley!

Thanks!

But I'm going to have to disagree with you about Prequel EU being better than OT EU.

Well, I didn't say it was better. I just said it was truer to the saga.

I completely agree about the characterizations. Very few books have been true to the characters as they are in the movies. I also agree about the overall quality. Like I've said elsewhere, I actually like "Traitor." It's a good sci-fi book, very well-written and interesting. It just isn't a good SW book.

I also completely agree about the fanfic authors being better.

 

Could you explain in a bit more detail what you mean exactly by `truer` to the saga? Seeing as the `Saga` seems to cover a period of a few years of the character`s lives, I dont quite get how the main character`s futures can be `untrue` to their pasts.

They might get the wrong end of the stick circumstance wise (and they didnt get exactly get off lightly in the OT). And they may have relationships with people that you have a bad opinion of. I dont see how it`s that different in spirit.

 

While I can understand the complaint that some of the writing in EU may not be up to your personal standards (I'll give Aunecah_Skywalker that concession) Expanded Universe is an officially licensed product of Lucasfilm, and is carefully reviewed to remain "true" with the ideas of the films by George Lucas. Even starwars.com has begun to include EU information into their database on the timeline.

Shelly, for the last time...where (I want exact citing) is this supposed quote of GL refering to EU as a "parallel universe?" I want to read it for myself, to determine if you are taking something he said out of context. (very possible IMO)

He has said he doesn't get too involved in the EXPANDED UNIVERSE (get it right)...that could be interpreted as his decision to not make movies beyond ROTJ came from the fact that the authors of EU had written a well developed storyline (with the approval of HIS own production company LUCASFILM) that there was enough of a timeline already done.

which explains why the prequel EU is truer to the saga than the post-ROTJ stuff...going back to my previous comment, wouldn't that entail GL got too involved in the parallel universe (as you refer to it)...so now the boss does pay attention to the storyline and developments of that parallel universe you keep refering to. I believe we've found the "thermal exhaust port" in your theory!!!

and when asked, he couldn't come up with a single EU story he liked.
Apparently, he like the story of Aayla Secura enough to bring her character to life in AOTC!!! Don't be surprised if we see alot of EU developments in Episode III, which tie PT and OT through subtle references to events of prequel EU.

So you don't like Jaina because you can't understand how the daughter of Han and Leia Solo could feel like she has to be better then the "legend" of her own mother. And Leia choose to focus more on being a politician, attepmting to undergo "jedi home schooling" (when the opportunity arise) then completed her training, and it certainly wouldn't have her telling Mara, of all people, that she is braver...so you believe Leia wouldn't be able to set aside her own pride to acknowledge the strengths of her sister-in-law? You must think very little of Leia?

 

The EU appeals to me because of something the films cannot offer by they're very nature. It allows the focus to be on characters other than bloody depressing Jedi. Confession time: Jedi are probably my least favorite characters. The EU allows other characters they're chance to shine. The PT EU is my least favorite because it's all Jedi centered, but I can see Jedi fans enjoying it more than, say, pilot fans, to whom it offers nothing. That said, I don't mind Jedi as much as all that and still enjoy the films.

So, can we all just either read or not read the EU as we see fit? Let's be nice to each other. [face_puppydog]

 

Shelly, for the last time...where (I want exact citing) is this supposed quote of GL refering to EU as a "parallel universe?" I want to read it for myself, to determine if you are taking something he said out of context. (very possible IMO)

Actually, I read that somewhere too. I forgot who originally posted it though, so you're gonna have to do a bit o' detective work.
I didn't, however, read that he didn't like any of the EU. From what I heard he liked Dark Empire. But that doesn't mean he considers it the same universe.

 

Oh, I definitely like some of the EU. Even though there were some gross mischaracterizations in Courtship of Princess Leia, I still like the book. It has a good writing style and at least Han and Leia get together by the end of it. Tenenial Djo was also an interesting character. The Zahn trilogy, too, I like. But the Thrawn dualogy - that Vision of the Future lecture, that's just completely ridiculous. Every time I read it - and I grant you, I don't read it far too often anymore - I still want to smack Mara and rip the pages out of the book. The whole lecture episode seems just too wrong.

(Of course, I would have had a lot more respect toward Zahn and Mara if she was supposed to have killed mostly "those who deserved to die" even though she was working for the Emperor - that's right, I suppose Luke's one of those people that belonged in that category.)

So, sometimes, many times, especially with post-RotJ stories that deal with Luke just don't seem to fit in with the OT. I still haven't seen a single book that I would say worked the OT characters' characterizations brilliantly, but at least we have some good books to read.

Though the completion of the Saga won't change that, I hope it will at least give rise to new books that will take the EU in the direction that I want. (As a side, I think if GL gave a fanfic writer a chance to write an EU novel ... )

Aunecah