Speculation Will the Empire still exist in some form in the new trilogy? I wonder...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by TheLateAdmiralPiett, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. JediChris99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    There has to be a scroll. It's Star Wars. A Star Wars without a scroll (or crawl as some call it) would be like Hamlet without Hamlet!
    JainaSoloYJK likes this.
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    @JediChris99

    Yes, the Republic became the Empire... but the Rebel Alliance, and the new government it forms, is something separate. And a remnant of the Empire survived.
  3. syferdiasisalie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2004
    star 2
    Or an into with large scrolling yellow letters ;)
  4. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    The celebrations we see at the end of RotJ is for the death of Palpatine, not the Empire's defeat at Endor. So the Empire could still be going strong post Endor once they've crowned a new Emperor/ress. Question is, who? Who could possibly take the throne without throwing the Empire into a civil war?

    Princess Leia, imo. Well loved by the rebellion, lost her homeworld so has the sympathy vote, is not only Alderaanian royalty, but also Naboo royalty and she is the daughter of the only man who would have succeeded Palpatine, so her claim to the throne can't be easily questioned. I got the impression that the people loved her as well when she had been a Senator.

    To bring peace to the galaxy and end the war, why not accept a proposal to take the throne? Then we can get the Fel dynasty from Legacy like someone posted previously.
    Vespasian likes this.
  5. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    I'm not an "EU fan," I mean a lot of the stuff is really great and well told, but I don't really care if Lucas ignores it or anyone else ignores it. That being said, I think the books serve as a fantastic "What If..." To that end, it makes perfect sense that the Empire wouldn't be completely gone. All of that hardware and all of that power doesn't disappear even in 100 years, I don't think. It would get repurposed, though. It would leave probably hundreds of different scenarios playing out across the galaxy. Some remnants would probably join the defense forces of an individual planet, given strong leadership at that planet. Others would roam through space and act as pirates. Some others would be assembled and held together by strong warlords, perhaps not attempting to "take back" the galaxy but at least establishing a new foothold of power elsewhere, like the Outer Rim.

    What was lost in ROTJ would be the entire central command for the Empire, which would in turn throw the remaining forces into disarray and leave them fighting for power.
  6. Vespasian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Wow, the EU is... wow. Fel dynasty? The last book I read was from the X-Wing series. I guess the plots advanced.

    Well anyhoo, I guess the Empire could still be around, but I'd prefer it long gone. An internal threat from the New Republic, that I'd like, almost like the Separatists from the prequels, but maybe cooler?:) I don't know.
    Last edited by Vespasian, Nov 2, 2012
  7. Darth_Darkmoon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I hope that the Empire is still strong. It is iconic to the Star Wars universe. Having no empire resulted in the Prequels ;)
    The good thing abot the Zahn-novels was that the Empire was still a threat and that you had all of the iconic elements in the books: the Empire, Star Destroyers, TIE-Fighters, Luke Skywalker, Han, Leia, the droids, Chewie... etc. A new movie with all of those elementts would be great, people would freak out. So I think that they will somehow incorporate all of those elements into the new movie.
    Marc McAllister likes this.
  8. Othalan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2010
    One of the few aspects of true realism in the EU was how the post-Endor Empire was treated. The Emperor visited a military installation. He, his second, and a few mid-high ranking underlings were killed. That does not equal a total defeat by a long shot. How many world leaders have been suddenly and unexpectedly assassinated IRL? Hundreds, perhaps thousands over the course of human history. How many times has that resulted in the instant, magical annihilation of the political power structures and military infrastructure they built? I'll give you a hint: not even once.

    There is an entire bureaucracy on Coruscant designed to manage an entire galaxy. Do you think those people saw the Death Star's destruction on the news and just packed up and went home? As for the military, does anyone honestly think the piddling fleet of fifty or so warships at Endor represent the entirety of the Imperial Navy? A Navy with the resources of an entire galaxy behind it? How could fifty ships, even star destroyers, possibly maintain order on millions of subjugated worlds? The answer is that they can't. Which means there is an utterly massive military-industrial complex dedicated to holding the galaxy under its boot heel. Killing the Emperor doesn't make them magically disappear. Was Endor a huge victory for the Rebellion? Yes. Was it a major turning point in the war against the Empire? Yes, definitely. Was it the End of the war? Not even close.

    Yes, because a known traitor and revolutionary, who has taken up arms against the legitimate (evil or not, you can't deny that the Empire was a lawful authority) government, killing countless loyal citizen-soldiers of the Empire is the perfect candidate for the throne. No one in the military or political administration of the galaxy could possibly have any problem with that idea. Why? Because she's a pretty princess with a sob-story. [/sarcasm]

    I hope to whatever entity might be listening that they don't just decide that Endor was the end of the Empire. That would be stupid beyond belief, possibly even more so than Jar-Jar.
    Last edited by Othalan, Nov 2, 2012
  9. Diggs Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 4
    The Vong are awful. No thanks. I'm sure whatever form the enemy takes they will be armoured troops of some kind. They will want to keep as many recognisable classic SW elements as possible, given it's highly likely we will be following a new set of characters. If Luke, Han, Leia et al are around I imagine it to be in a torch passing way. Building a new trilogy around three ageing heroes won't cut it. I know they've said the EU won't be adapted but I think they will most likely take a Clone Wars approach to it - borrow from what works, but adapt to make fresh. The Remnant is something conceptually sound that makes sense for example. The Mandalorians are an existing war-like army that are instantly recognisable to the greater public and could pose a strong threat to the galaxy. And there's no way we will see a new trilogy without Sith in some way shape or form.
  10. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    I hope ths Empire has been completely dissolved and absorbed by the New Republic. I think its a good chance to move on to a new threat.
    Marc McAllister and Vespasian like this.
  11. Moog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 1
    They wouldn't be an 'empire' anymore for a start. You might have small groups of 'loyalists' who didn't believe in what the Alliance were doing, but the Empire as it was was overthrown with the defeat of the Emperor. Thirty years later this political situation would have developed significantly, with the loyalists either having been destroyed or having gained support and strength and now acting in opposition to the new Republic, politically or militarily.

    Is 'militarily' a word??
  12. TheProtocol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 2
    I hope the Empire does still exist. Like others said there's no way it would just disappear, even 20 years later or so. Even in the EU when the Vong invaded, the Empire has they're own section of space that was theirs and they were involved in some of the stories (if memory serves). I think/hope it will be featured in the movie but not as the main threat.

    I also hope the original cast will be in Episode VII, VIII, IX. Ideally I want them to be the main characters in all three movies and then pass on the torch for Episodes X, XI, and XII lol. Otherwise, I'd like them to be in Episode VII and then pass the torch on and maybe be in VIII and IX as supporting characters, or cameos.
  13. Saurion-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2001
    star 4
    that would be a good title "remnants of the empire"
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  14. Daft Vader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I think the Empire would still exist in some form following their defeat in ROTJ. It may be that Palpatine was already grooming a successor to Darth Vader and that he/she would be the one to carry on this threat to the galaxy. I would imagine that it is either this scenario or the new baddie/threat against the Republic coming from outside the galaxy.
    Either way it could be;
    Episode VII - A New Threat (mirroring A New Hope)
  15. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    It's not the first time in history that someone of the opposing side ended up on the throne and was loved and accepted. Take 11th century Scotland for example. Despite what a certain play says, King Duncan was a tyrant and murderess monarch who killed his own kin because he thought they were after his crown. He went after the steward of Moray and lost. Macbeth took the throne, even though Malcolm was the rightful heir, and for seventeen years was well loved by the people and kept peace in Scotland. He would later be murdered by Prince Malcolm after the young man returned from exile with an English army.

    So yes it is highly plausible for Leia to be accepted by the Empire and it's people despite what she represented and been branded as. Does that mean she won't have opposition in the Empire afterwards? Hell no. I would be highly surprised if there wasn't one person who wouldn't try to take the throne out from under her.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  16. Othalan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2010
    Actually, believe it or not, there might be a bit of difference between 11th century Scotland and an imperialist semi-constitutional non-hereditary monarchy in space. Firstly, noble blood wouldn't count for much in the galaxy as a whole. The worlds and cultures that have strong aristocratic traditions like Alderaan, Serenno, the Tapani and possibly Coruscant (though by the nature of the planet as an urban political, cultural, and trade hub/melting pot, Coruscanti would probably place more emphasis on the merchant class than on some nebulous concept of hereditary superiority) might back that method of succession, with blood/family ties overcoming crimes committed. But that leaves a hell of a lot of different cultures and political entities that probably disagree with the very concept of nobility, maybe even violently.

    You also have to consider the nature of the Empire itself. While the institutionalized racism/sexism of the Empire is largely an invention of the EU (and one that I could live with seeing retconned out of existence for its sheer ham-handedness if nothing else), it is hinted at by the fact that we never see a single alien or female Imperial in the movies. If those attitudes are in fact commonplace in the Empire, placing a woman in charge is probably not going to fly very well with a lot of powerful people. Furthermore, consider the method by which the Empire maintains control: military force and the fear of military force. That means that the military is essentially the true arbiter of power in the galaxy, and they know it.

    A being who possesses the military's approval and loyalty (like Palpatine) can hold the throne. A being who has a long history of bitter enmity (not to mention the whole treason thing, which military types tend to frown upon) with the folks holding all the big guns (like Leia) isn't going to last long. Even if she survived the initial assassination attempts, there's the simple fact that the vast majority of the largest, best equipped military force in galactic history is not a loyal servant but a mortal enemy, which would make her, at best, a pretty damned ineffective Empress, and at worst, well, a very short-lived Empress.

    Leia becoming Empress would be (to the Imperials) like the U.S. naming bin-Laden the next president if Bush had died in office. Sure, Bush was unpopular, but it completely goes against their entire ideology built up over the course of the war, and just makes no damn sense. The fact of the matter is that Leia's supporters are a tiny fringe element in the Empire. A fringe element vehemently opposed to-and by-basically everyone in a position of power.

    Meanwhile, the majority of Imperial citizens would likely behave exactly as thier counterparts in the real world do: they support whatever keeps them payed, fed, sheltered and entertained. Political instability caused by a radical fringe group seizing the throne without the blessing of the military or political establishment most definitely does not keep them payed, fed, sheltered and entertained. While they may have hated Palpatine and his policies, I think they hate the idea of their homes and families caught in the crossfire of a civil war a little more. Oh, plenty of them would probably rally to Leia's cause at first, but as the potential consequences of such a violently divisive leader start to become obvious, popular support would cool pretty quick.

    So no, it's clearly not "highly plausible".
    Last edited by Othalan, Nov 3, 2012
  17. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    The Empire should still be around. There are a few possibilities:
    1. The Galactic Empire - it couldn't have been destroyed right after Endor. Not even after the Emperor died. Wookiepedia sais that 30-40 Imp ships were destroyed back then. I doubt that the entire fleet was consisting of less than a hundred Star Destroyers, since it was a Galactic empire and all that;
    2. Imperial Remnant - even if it was mostly destroyed, there should still be former Imperial leaders who will try to retake the Galaxy. Grand Admiral Thrawn seems like the best bet;
    3. Imperial Remnant + Hutts (or other shady, underworld criminal organizations) - with their forces running thin, the Imperial leaders are searching for new alliances and ways to strike the Alliance from the inside.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Nov 3, 2012
    whostheBossk likes this.
  18. Kalontas Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    No.
    I wish people stopped disregarding parts of canon they don't like. It happened, deal with it. Like any professional, Lucas respects what he deemed as canon and does not shy away from using EU elements in his own stories (cf. usage of EU characters and places in PT). We will start after 44 ABY, and if the Empire plays any role it will be the fledgling empire of the Fels. If you don't like it, you have the full right to, but don't claim it didn't happen or a professional filmmaker will piss on his own canon.
    EviL_eLF likes this.
  19. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    But it's not his own canon. He doesn't even read it.

    Not that I don't agree with you, to an extent
  20. Guy-Gone_Weird Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 2
    I'm certain the Empire or some form of it will play a part in the story. Aside from all the story reasons that it makes sense, it also is a marketing decision they'll want to make, considering how popular Clone and Stormtroopers are.

    What might be cool is a hybrid of Dark Empire and Legacy - have the main threat have a twisted unstoppable version of the Empire, while there is also the Imperial Remnant, who (in an interesting plot development) could help the heroes defeat the enemy.
    Last edited by Guy-Gone_Weird, Nov 3, 2012
  21. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I wouldn't think that the Empire collapsed over night. Ignoring the EU and just speculating on what makes the most sense to me (which could be what the EU did anyway), I would think that the Empire fractured and different Moffs and Admirals maybe have carved out territories as de facto warlords. The rebellion seemed to consist of what was at Endor, otherwise I fail to see how Luke would have witnessed the destruction of the alliance if that was just a small insignificant segment of the Rebel fleet. And those ships don't seem nearly enough to secure the entire galaxy. So, I'd think powerful Imperial governors could hold onto power for awhile before eventually getting swallowed up as the Rebels rebuilt the Republic, increased its strength and then began to liberate those last pockets still under the control of warlords.

    But depending on how far Episode VII is in the future, it could take place after the mop up has been done. And while an Imperial Remnant may have lingered on for awhile after ROTJ, it just seems unlikely that they would have remained a huge threat. If the Emperor with his Death Star and the power of the Force was defeated by the rebels and the Imperial flagship was also destroyed, I don't know how great of a threat a bunch of disorganized warlords would be and I don't think the last little bit of Palpatine's Empire would be a compelling enemy for a future trilogy. I mean, even the Imperial capital (Coruscant) started rioting and celebrating Palpatine's death. It doesn't bode well when your capital hates you. While Moffs may have been able to hold onto power in the Outer Rim, I would think that the people there would hate the Empire just as much if not more so than Coruscant.
  22. Guy-Gone_Weird Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 2
    Unless there was someone who united the disparate Imperial Remnant factions.
  23. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    That's actually a perfect title. Better than what I came up with. Maybe they'll use Thrawn's character in this new trilogy.
  24. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    That just seems unoriginal and unlikely. Those kinds of stories are best left for the EU IMO. Personally I'm hoping Episode VII takes place after the tedious period of the New Republic mopping up the last of the pockets of Imperial control and moving onto something completely new. Even the equivalent of space Mongols coming from beyond the Outer Rim to pillage and oppress the Republic is something I could get behind sooner than more Imperials.
  25. Guy-Gone_Weird Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 2
    Well, pretty much every conceivable kind of threat they could face HAS been done in the EU - long-lost enemies, extra-galactic conquerors, pirates, terrorists, bounty hunters, crime lords, militaristic societies, a fractured Empire, a resurgent Empire, a separate Empire, heroes and allies turning against them, ghosts, evil clones, witches, zombies, corruption, misguided people, robots, dinosaurs, monsters, supernatural beings and even the unfathomable Waru. Unoriginal is subjective. It's really just a question of which "unoriginal" direction George had in mind, and which one the writers feel continues the story best.