Will the PT music be fixed for the DVD?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by hawk, Jul 30, 2005.

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  1. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    I didn't have a problem with the use of "The Arena" march in ROTS during Vader's entrance into the Jedi Temple. It didn't strike me, during either of the times I've seen the film, as out of place.

    Would it have been nice for Williams/Burtt/Lucas to have written/edited/used a new piece of music? Yes. Does the use of "The Arena" ruin the scene for me? No. It's still a powerful scene.

    Just my two cents on that one. :)
  2. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    You persistently ask me "What's your problem with Anakin's Dream and Betrayal?" Nothing. I don't like the way it's edited into the film and it sounds like they just threw the music into that scene and dubbed it 'complete'. It feels incomplete and cheap. Enough said.
  3. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Indeed enough said. Please heed a mod warning to move on and drop it.
  4. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    I just remembered the most obvious answer to this question....the ANH DVD; the music is most certainly...."fixed".


    [face_peace]
    ttbk, Star Wars music....
  5. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    :_|
  6. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    although that was "just" a volume "adjustmen" and "artistic license" for the rear channels

    at least, in theory, it's still the same music ... sort of


    just for the record, I love The Arena for the march on the Jedi Temple. I was surprised to hear it there, for sure, but I liked it. After the first few viewings I left the theater humming The Arena.
    It also doesn't count as tracked for me, because it went unused in AotC.
    The editing might sound strange, but I don't complain about a repitition of one of the best statements of that theme/ cue.
    In the end, it's the feel it evokes that matters, and with that it worked - at least for me and a bunch of other people


    I find the tracking of "Hyperspace" into the Snowspeeder's search for the heroes and inside the second Death Star far worse
  7. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    It was actually used on the Geonosis DVD menu, not that it counts. :p


    Strange that.
  8. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I tend to agree with TLJ on this matter. Since it wasn't used in AOTC, it's not as bad. It's OK for me, though I've said that a newer statement of the IM or Emperor's theme in a light, quick march would have worked better.
  9. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Lol, how would the Emperor's theme work in a scene like Vader and the clonetrooper's march on the temple? I can't imagine that. A slightly different rendition of the IM, at least, however... most definitely.
  10. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Consider how "Augie" worked in TPM...

    now if it evolves back into the Emperor's Theme, no chorus, just using horns and percussion...

    I can imagine it.

    That being said, I think a light, quick IM (mirroring "Boys Into Battle") would work the best.


    Edit: Prior to the scoring sessions, there was speculation that Williams might incorporate the ANH Imperial Theme into ROTS. I wonder how that would have worked in the "March On The Temple" scene, and how well it might have linked to ANH.
  11. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Imperial theme? Here ya go. ;)

    http://files.filefront.com/Entry_into_the_Temple/;3932580;;/fileinfo.html
  12. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Consider as well that the theme used during Anakin's confession scene in AOTC is also the Emperor's theme. How could it work? Because it's the most evil SW theme out there. Anakin is carrying out the Emperor's will. It works in several ways.

  13. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    Listening to that Imperial Theme for Vader's entrance in the Jedi Temple . . . seemed much too slow. Perhaps if it was sped up a bit, I can see it working better than the Arena March.
  14. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I also listened to "Imperial Attack" at the 5:30 mark, and "The Death Star/The Stormtroopers" at the 2:05 mark for reference, and I would agree that a little faster tempo would be called for if used for "March On The Temple".
  15. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    True, but the theme is too slow and doesn't have enough impact or "oomph" to it in this case.

    And it doesn't flow or collaborate too well with what's actually happening in that case either. It worked with the confession scene, but at the most I suspect it would only work in a scene like that. I think a slightly different and perhaps tempo increased version of the IM would work beautifully.
  16. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I meant to synch it with the footsteps of the clones, but forgot... maybe I'll do a version 2.
  17. EwohEkim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2005
    star 1
    Most of the music near the end of AOTC just felt too rushed and didn't feel solid at times. AOTC seems musically-lacking in terms of music playing a part of the story. Episode I and III had some musical cures that worked well.

    I've wondered if the year 2002 was a diffiuclt one for Williams. He had 4 major films that year (Harry Potter 2, 2 Spielberg Films and AOTC), and a number of other items that had to have made him quite busy.
  18. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Not to mention George Lucas and Ben Burtt being busy... :p
  19. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    Wouldn't it be wonderful if Lucas decided to go back and replace all the tracked music on the DVDs with what Williams wrote? Not going to happen, but we can dream, can't we?
  20. DarthQuellonis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2005
    star 4
    John Williams should create more music and release a total edition of music for ROTS.
  21. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Wouldn't it be wonderful if Lucas decided to go back and replace all the tracked music on the DVDs with what Williams wrote? Not going to happen, but we can dream, can't we?

    It's not that simple. First of all, "what Williams wrote" means nothing. If there is actual recorded music, then that's another. There is plenty of unused recorded music for TPM. Not all of it is usable because of the last-minute film editing, but much could be reinserted into it, and here I am thinking especially the Battle of Naboo. As for the other films, however, there was generally no music written for the scenes in which tracked music was used. A few "conspiracy" theorists believe that Lucas, during the recording sessions, decided that certain scenes could be tracked, to cut back on recording costs, but most believe that no music was written for the battles of Geonosis, Kashyyyk, and Utapau (and other instances of tracked music).

    I don't think it's likely new music will be recorded for the Sith DVD. There's only a month or so before the DVD goes to press, and we've heard nothing. And it's not a simple thing reconvening the London Symphony Orchestra to record new music. The only case of this happening was "Victory Celebration," back in 1997. Now, Lucas is even cheaper...
  22. DarthAJ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2004
    star 4
    Nothing was wrong with TPM score. It was an unique movie in Star Wars with unique music.



    But go ahead and change AOTC. Jango vs. Obi in space was horrible. No music at all. And of course every scene on Geonosis. Execution, Arena Battle, Ground Battle, Duel. But it would also be neat if the Imperial March was taken out of AOTC's finale (too be saved for ROTS) and replaced with the original music JW composed.

    For ROTS, many of the scenes lacked music especially aboard the IH: Hanger, Elevator, Dooku Duel, IH being broken in half, Guard duel, GG's escape. But IMO i LOVED the TPM music when the IH crash landed on Coruscant. It fit much better than the when Ani destroyed the Droid Control Ship. Next, alot of the Utapau scenes. I would have also liked Imperial March in there somewhere (maybe when Sidious' announces the Empire and Ani kills the Sepretists?) or some variation of it besides the Yoda duel. And last at the very very end of the movie, i would have liked some music from all over the saga for the ending montage. Like maybe for Padme's Funeral we could have a variation of the 'Funeral March' in ESB. For Vader's looking upon the Death star we could have a peice from 'Darth Vader's Death' when it has the single string playing the Imperial March theme. Then for the Twin's keep the music that's already there.
  23. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    But go ahead and change AOTC. Jango vs. Obi in space was horrible. No music at all.

    I like the fact that there's no music until the end of the asteroid chase. I've always enjoyed those types of scenes where the sound effects take over. But I guess its just personal taste.

    And of course every scene on Geonosis. Execution, Arena Battle, Ground Battle, Duel.

    The tracked music during the Battle of Geonosis doesn't bother me and I think it works well with the scenes, but I can understand why somebody would be bothered with it. I think the music during the duels is fine. Its certainly not Duel of the Fates or Clash of the Lightsabers, but then again the duel at the end of Attack of the Clones is probally the least important of the saga, so I don't expect it to be the most impressive.

    But it would also be neat if the Imperial March was taken out of AOTC's finale (too be saved for ROTS) and replaced with the original music JW composed.

    I'm confused here. The music the plays in the film is the same that plays during track 13 of the soundtrack. Did Williams compose something else that we haven't heard?

    For ROTS, many of the scenes lacked music especially aboard the IH: Hanger, Elevator, Dooku Duel, IH being broken in half, Guard duel, GG's escape.

    I've heard many people complain about the lack of music aboard the Invisible Hand, but I love the fact that much of the sequence is silent. Everything that happens aboard Grievous' starcruiser is a set-up by Palpatine, and instead of music accompanying these scenes we get this eery silence. Its eery because we expect epic heroic music but instead we get quiet. It sort of plays with the plot. We see our heroes performing all these heroic deeds to save Palpatine, but its really all just a false conflict. I don't know if it Lucas and Williams did that purposely or not, but that's how I feel and it suits me.

    But IMO i LOVED the TPM music when the IH crash landed on Coruscant. It fit much better than the when Ani destroyed the Droid Control Ship.

    I loved that music as well. It brought me back to The Phantom Menace. Its sort of like "Anakin's Heroic Space" motif.
  24. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I'm confused here. The music the plays in the film is the same that plays during track 13 of the soundtrack. Did Williams compose something else that we haven't heard?

    Yes, he did. The final five seconds can be heard in the "Across the Stars" music video. The rest is unknown, but a member of the London Voices who recorded with Williams had this to say:

    "I have now listened at length to the AOTC score (which incidentally I consider to be the weakest Star Wars score yet). Now, I remember being less than impressed when the last disc came out- but it grew on me and grew and grew. The track that I immediately played was the 'Confrontation With Count Dooku and Finale.' I can tell you now that this cue has been revised from what I heard at the recording session. I was waiting for the massive orchestral blowout before the finale statement of the Love Theme. I have been raving about this material since the day I heard it in January. Imagine my disappointment when I heard that the entire sequence had been replaced with a grandiloquent statement of the Imperial March. I considered this to be the high point of the music that I heard that day. Remember that I spoke to you months ago about this section of the music- It underscores the scenes where thousands of Clone Troopers are standing in attention in front of three hooded figures who are surveying this military parade. Huge spaceships are flying overhead. This scene is obviously meant to depict the birth of the Empire. These massive statements from the orchestra are then immediately followed by the final statement of the love theme, then the end titles. I kind of wish that Williams had not bowed to pressure and left any statements of the Imperial March until Episode Three- can you imagine the dramatic effect of not hearing the theme until we see the first glimpse of Anakin in his new incarnation as Vader? I can just imagine it. The original music was more effective I think- but Lucas must have had different ideas. I wonder if this original version will ever see the light of day... too bad."

    I've heard many people complain about the lack of music aboard the Invisible Hand, but I love the fact that much of the sequence is silent. Everything that happens aboard Grievous' starcruiser is a set-up by Palpatine, and instead of music accompanying these scenes we get this eery silence. Its eery because we expect epic heroic music but instead we get quiet. It sort of plays with the plot. We see our heroes performing all these heroic deeds to save Palpatine, but its really all just a false conflict. I don't know if it Lucas and Williams did that purposely or not, but that's how I feel and it suits me.

    A lot of the supposed silence was in fact scored, but the music was dropped. Good thing you can hear most of it on the RotS CD (track 7 and the end of track 1). And the silence didn't seem foreboding to me. The scenes just lost all intensity. Try imagining the end of track 1 (called "The Elevator Scene") used in the film. It adds to the tension a lot. Without music, it's hard to really care about the Jedi's transportation predicament. It all seems like a joke without the music. And yes, there is comic relief... I have this strange feeling that the music would have made those parts funnier as well, but it's hard to explain.

    I loved that music as well. It brought me back to The Phantom Menace. Its sort of like "Anakin's Heroic Space" motif.[/i]

    It can't be considered a "theme" or "motif" because it's tracked. However, it ends up being a motif anyway because of its use in the full version of "Take To Your Ships" (this cue is NOT used in the film TPM so naturally nobody has heard it).
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