Discussion will the ST restore Star Wars legendary glory, or will the LOTR stay on top???

LOTR? On top? I disagree. Love the movies and the books, as well as the recent Hobbit flick. It will never beat SW. Never.

 

I REALLY don't consider LOTR to top the Star Wars films in legendary status. Critical acclaim? Sure...? But Star Wars is the more iconic one.

 

No, because there is important material after the Ring is thrown into Mount Doom, and by covering that material the film ends at the same point as the book. Stopping at the moment the Ring is thrown into Mount Doom would be ridiculous for a number of reasons. We wouldn't see the fate of Frodo and Sam or the armies of the West, for one thing. So I'll assume your problem is with what comes after - but that material concludes the subplot of the fate of Arwen, gives us the payoff of Aragorn's journey to the throne ( which would be kind of criminal to leave out based on just the title of the film ), and contains the important scene at the Grey Havens where it is established that Frodo leaves Middle-earth ( without which the film would really not be trying to be true to the books at all ). Also, people who didn't read the books don't realize how much tighter Jackson's ending is by virtue of jettisoning Tolkien's "The Scouring of the Shire", the actual textual truth of "too many endings" ( which is largely a myth in the film context ).

 

Sure. Take 10 minutes outta that with tighter editing. Not as many long, meaningful pauses and slow motions shots of Arwen walking outta drapes and falling flowers, etc. Old Bilbo babbling in the carriage as they go off across the sea. Sam sitting there and looking wistful at the end. the hugging. The slow motion shot of the eagles carrying them off. It may be important to a plot but it doesn't justify as filmmaking how dangblasted long and ponderous it all is.

 

The only other movie that I can recall with one coda after another that was so groan inducing was the English Patient.

 

I agree with the hugging, actually, but the rest of it doesn't go on long enough to be considered a problem. Especially one regular ( not slow ) motion shot of Arwen's appearance which maybe takes a few seconds. If you can't abide even one brief shot devoted to it, you're not arguing about "editing". You just don't want to see the marriage referenced at all. The few lines of dialogue in the carriage don't amount to much time. Nor does the scene with the eagles, which would lose its stylistic force if sped up. Also, Sam doesn't sit there and look wistful at the end. He walks into his house with his family just like in the book, says his last line from the book, the end.

 

The end is so ponderously slow because the camera lingers too long on silent reaction shots from half the cast, that's editing. Tighten it up. Take out chunks of dialogue. Reaction shots. Seriously, how long does Sam take to walk to his door? Why does it fade out after Frodo gets on the happy ship like the movie is over then we gotta see Samwise Gamge again? (also, who really cares if he's sitting there or walks to his house or whatever, the point is nobody wants to see it.) Why do we never need them sitting in the bar looking at each other. And on and on and on and on.

Also? Once again, only people on the Internet actually like the ending. I've never head a single real life person say they like the ending. It drags too long. It needed to be shorter. The movie is over. Let us leave, Peter Jackson. It is too long and must be cut down.

 

Seriously, you could do Aaragon being married and crowned king in, like, 30 seconds, max. With a single shot. Boom. Done. Not five minutes.

 

Quick poll! Does anyone aside from, like, 5 people in this thread actually like the ending of ROTK? Go ahead! I'll wait!

 

Also, how is the interminable ending of ROTK not considered a problem when I clearly do have a problem with it? You may not have a problem with it but I do. Therefore it is a problematic ending from my perspective. Because it is too long. My opinion isn't fact and neither is yours.

 

If the entire point of the construction of a scene and its intended effect is for the camera to linger for a few seconds, then the editing of the scene is precisely what the filmmaker wanted. What do you want, a rock video style mishmash of quick cuts?

Question answered...

A few seconds? Nothing to get upset about, at any rate. Is he supposed to come running into frame like he's running a marathon, only to karate-jump-kick the door open?

So it could end with a faithful recreation of the last scene in the book? But I'm beginning to see the problem here: you automatically equate fade-outs with "now I can leave". Must have been torture...

I wanted to see it. Do you not grasp the fact that you do not speak for the entire audience?

I wouldn't have missed that scene myself.

People on the internet actually become real life people the moment they log off.

I'm talking about the individual components you mentioned. IMO none of them individually is long enough to be reasonably considered in need of editing. So if one were to accept that premise the only problem would be the number of them. But most of them would be important to any faithful adaptation of the book.

 

to be honest, I actually like the flick a lot and I don't mind the individual context of the scenes, but some things should be cut just to improve the pacing of after they toss the ring into Mount Doom. You're watching a flick about Hobbits trying to destroy the ring, that's the main thrust of it. All of that battle stuff beforehand is cool and even when Aaragon and Gimili and all those guys beat the one army and again they line up to fight again outside of Mordor I'm down with it because Sam and Frodo still gotta toss the ring so as a viewer you're invested in what is driving the narrative. Once the ring is tossed, that's it. Maybe 5 minutes, max from there to rolling the end credits. That would be a good thing for the viewing audience who is trapped in the theatre at that point.

Watching the flick again, I was able to make it past the post-mount doom ring destruction stuff as an isolated viewing chunk. As that, it actually does work. But in a single sitting from the movie of start to end, it's infuriating. If it was an epilogue episode of "Lord of the Rings, the TV series" I could hack it. All at from frame 1 to rolling credits? It's deliberately keeping audience there.

 

Who cares about subjective frivolous status of future films? Just care about the first film being good.

 

Yeah, but it's all your opinion and it's all my opinion, none of it makes it fact. I think it's too long and you don't. "Nobody wants to see that" is a joke but, more than likely, it's what a majority of the audience was feeling at that point because everyone I've ever talked to say the same thing which boils down to "holy god, that movie takes forever to end."

 

In addition to Jackson sparing the audience the entirety of The Scouring of the Shire, he also took out The Houses of Healing. Thus we are left with only one brief shot to establish that Eowyn and Faramir got together - but I suppose even that is too much, because it's a "reaction shot". The main narrative of the book goes on for another 80 pages after the Ring goes into the fire.

Wait for it...

So, not really a joke after all. How completely shocking.

So... a majority of the audience was thinking that their opinions represented the opinions of everyone else? So a majority of the audience was, in fact, wrong? Amazing result - it's almost as if argumentum ad populum is some kind of logical fallacy! And how exactly is such misguided, insecure thinking supposed to serve as indication of the potential for intelligent film criticism?

 

Well the editing is what the filmmaker intended but, in my opinion, it could have been edited tighter. jackson may have intended to linger but I wasn't digging it. Whatever emotion he's trying to convey at that point is just turning into irritability after sitting there for 3 hours at that point. I would have loved just a single shot of Aaragon being crowned and married. That would have been nice. Then I could leave.

Actually, yeah, that would have been pretty awesome if Sam just randomly karate kicked a hobbit to open his door. I would have completely loved that.

 

Which is fine, good for Jackson. That's a book. you can put it down. I'm trapped in a theatre and the walls are closing it and Return of the King won't end, please God, somebody help me! Etc. etc.

 

I was fine with ROTK. No complaints. I wish it could have been longer!

 

Movie wise, The Star Wars Galaxy will long out live Jackson's Hobbit movies.

 

No, the majority of the audience was thinking "Gee, this movie is long". And it was! For the majority. I would be highly shocked if everyone in the theatre did not think that.

Oh! Nice way to use "argumentum ad populum" It made you look smart! Yay! Go you! Smart guy! WHOOO!

 

argumentum ad populum!

Golly, I can't wait for a link to the definition! Ever so smart!

 

Fun fact! Using latin makes your right! In everything!