Discussion Will the ST start the trend of Star Wars Winning Awards?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by phatdude1138, Nov 22, 2013.

  1. phatdude1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 3
    Star Wars was never really known for winning awards in the first place, and my theory is because Lucas didn't really conform to Hollywood standards. With him out of the picture, does the ST have a better, worse, or same chance at winning awards now?

    Just for the record I think these awards and award shows are crap. This also includes how I feel about movie critics. They totally don't influence how I feel about the film in any way.

    But just for topics sakes, I was wondering how you folks felt about it?

    Here is a list compiled from IMDB:


    Star War IV: A New Hope:
    Won Best Art Direction-Set Decoration
    Won Best Costume Design
    Won Best Effects, Visual Effects
    Won Best Film Editing
    Won Best Music, Original Score
    Won Best Sound
    Won Special Achievement Award For sound effects
    Nominated for Best Actor in a Supporting Role
    Nominated for Best Director
    Nominated for Best Picture
    Nominated for Best Writing, Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen

    Star Wars V: The Empire Strikes Back:
    Won Best Sound
    Won Special Achievement Award For the visual effects.
    Nominated Best Art Direction-Set Decoration
    Nominated Best Music, Original Score

    Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi:
    Won Special Achievement Award For the visual effects
    Nominated Best Art Direction-Set Decoration
    Nominated Best Effects, Sound Effects Editing
    Nominated Best Music, Original Score
    Nominated Best Sound

    Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace:
    Nominated Best Effects, Sound Effects Editing
    Nominated Best Effects, Visual Effects
    Nominated Best Sound

    Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones:
    Nominated Best Visual Effects

    Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith:
    Nominated Best Achievement in Makeup

    From what I can tell, Star Wars started going downhill in the academy's eyes over time. Not to mention that the PT was completely disrespected. Minimal nominations and zero wins.

    So will Disney turn this around? Will the academy respect Disney and Abrams more? Again we can say "if the movie is good it will get awards", but that's not true, I love all 6 films and care less what the academy thinks. Heck, I may even like J.J.s version, and they may not get awards. Also on the flip side EP7 may get a ton of awards and I may hate it.

    Anyhow get in before the lock!!
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  2. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    After Disney bought Star Wars The Clone Wars it finally got an emmy nominations and wins after 4 seasons of none because Dinsey has far more pull within the industry, especially vs LFL being so independent from the industry which always hurt its chances of wins. I expect far more nomiations than the prequals got, especially now that Lucas isn't writing or directing it... maybe not as much as A New Hope though unless ot turns out to be something really special.

    A more wild card possible advantage VII has going for it is being the first in franchise December release, it will be very fresh in everyone's minds right before ballots are cast compaired to May which is practially right after the Oscars and being far removed from everyones minds.
    Last edited by Ryus, Nov 22, 2013
  3. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    I agree with what you say about the value of these awards and these shows.
    But, for discussion's sake, let's elaborate a bit, haha.

    I think there is a certain kind of movie that is currently dominating the "awarded movies" and "festival movies" sections. (Note on festivals: I can only speak of those I've personally seen in Serbia, and while there are quite a few, it's just a personal view, not a rule :p ). These are the, very broadly put, "drama" kind of movies. It doesn't really matter if it's a documentary, a feature, a short, or some weird other narrative form. These are the movies that are meant to portray a "real story" or a "very human story" or a "an everyday story." This, in fact, does not really apply only to movies. It's a somewhat general trend in art that I've noticed. Why these types of movies/works? They are easy to make, they are easy to relate to, they are easy to find a target audience, they are a political correctness wet dream. But most of all, these kinds of products rely on their inherent "shock value." Like a certain "flavor of the season" they just shift subject from minority issues, sexual, religious, ethnic, national, etc. You can't really stay indifferent to a moving drama story or documentary about some backwater family's harsh life, of "one man's/woman's/child's/Waru's struggle against all odds." You can't really stay indifferent when someone makes huge portraits of children that died in concentration camps. (A certain Austrian or German artist, can't recall his name.) This "tug the hearstrings" approach covers up the inherent shallowness of such a work, the fact that it simply documents or tells a story, without making any sort of statement, taking a stance. It's a feelgood excercise for much of the all-too-distant "western" audiences where documenting and being aware of a problem in society often gets equated with actually doing something about it. These sort of products are meant to be a sort of "enlightening experience" where your views and beliefes are brought into question and where the observer is supposedly "spurred into action" against whatever injustice may be portrayed. The authors themselves very rarely go beyond simply documenting or, dare I say, exploiting their subject for personal gain or status raising. I have seen countless examples of folks making these sorts of documentaries, then happily collecting their thousands of euros in rewards at festivals, while the family they filmed keeps starving. Of course, there are exceptions and these exceptions are very notable and should be mentioned - a student filmmaker who won a thousand euro award (a lot of money for an average student here) on a small festival and instantly handed it over to the people who were in his film. However, these are, unfortunately, rare. These movies are meant to "move the audience" in a certain manner and, in my view, they do it in the cheapest possible way. Switching around with the flavor of the season, they just follow the current trends and are in general going about fixing very real, very existing issues in a rather shallow, uneducated, playing-it-safe and generally counterproductive manner.

    Again, this is a wider trend that I have personally encountered very often, others may have completely different experiences or interpretations.
    In short, the fact that there are thousands of people checking news every day for a new Star Wars movie is a much bigger award than any that can be bestowed by the shallow, forgettable and low standards of the seasonal tastes.
    Last edited by The Hellhammer, Nov 22, 2013
  4. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I used to always say that no matter how good a Batman movie is, it will never win best picture. Same holds for Star Wars.
  5. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    The Dark Knight proved its possible, however unlikely, for a best actor win from these types of movies.

    Return of the King proved its possible, however unlikely, for a franchise to win best picture.

    Both required extreme cirumstances, the first a brilliant preformance (I believe Heath still would have won if he lived), the second required two prior movies of an army of fans screaming for wins so the Academy gave a boat load to the final film. However both aren't impossible to replicate, just unlikely. As to "lower" awards, winning them is farmore likely.
    Last edited by Ryus, Nov 22, 2013
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  6. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Star Wars must remain true to its roots. If it turns out to be like any common action flick of today then it isn't Star Wars anymore. I'd rather it remain true to the original movies and not win any awards than not be true to the movies and win awards.
  7. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Who says any of us care if it wins an award? We all only want a great movie in the end but right now we're just bored and its a new conversations which happens to be about awards. [face_tee_hee]
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  8. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    It'll win the Academy Award for Best Movie Ever Made.
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  9. plaidphoenix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2013
    star 4
    This isn't a diss against JJ Abrams, but I don't think his skills as a director rise to the level of having a film he helms winning an academy award for best director. That being said, I have to agree, big woop about a SW film winning a major award. I'd rather see a good movie and enjoy watching it then go watch a ho hum movie and wonder halfway through whether or not it's going to win an Oscar.
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  10. -Jedi Joe- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    That is crap that RotS didn't get at least a nomination for best VFX, especially since it blows King Kong's VFX out of the water.
  11. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    I think the Academy regards Star Wars as having been done before. It won the awards in 1977/78... They always look for things that revolutionize or shake up the movie industry or boldly stride forward in a genre, which the original films did... And let's face it the prequels didnt. Personally I can't see the sequels winning oscars either, not without drastically altering the Star Wars formula, which lets face it we don't want them to do.

    I'm happy with an entertaining Star Wars movie, not the kind of things the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences looks for.
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  12. Jetedonne Pur-Pureus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2013
    star 4
    Gary Oldman was nominated for an Academy Award a grand total of one times after phenomenal performances in The Fifth Element, Batman, Dracula, Harry Potter, etc. Joseph Gordon-Levitt has yet to be nominated for an AA even after sensational performances in G. I. Joe, Looper, Batman, etc. Not to mention, a few years back on the People's Choice Awards he was nominated for best new actor, even though he'd been acting practically since childhood.

    Yup...I think that the awards shows are rigged. It would be a colossal, albeit pleasant surprise, if Star Wars were even to be nominated in the future, but Episode VII would probably have to feature a massacre of key characters to be included in the yearly melancholy fest that the AA has become. Imho I'd much rather Star Wars settle for a Razzie award because at least they cover a broader spectrum of entertainment.
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  13. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    If Heath Ledger was still alive, he would not have won the Oscar for that movie. Probably wouldn't have even been nominated. For all the Oscars Return of the King won, not a single actor was even so much as nominated. (In fact the whole trilogy led to only one actor-related nomination: Ian McKellen from Fellowship)
    That was as much a nod to all 3 of the movies as anything. It was well deserved, but something happening once a century gives me little confidence it will happen again.
    Last edited by Beezer, Nov 22, 2013
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  14. phatdude1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 3
    Like I said before, if J.J. can pull of a "Star Wars Stylistic" film (like any of the 6) and it is nominated for zero or wins zero awards I'd be happy!

    As far as nominations go, I know "actor" and "best picture" are always out of the running. However I would like John Williams to get the best musical score, and it may be possible because the academy may see it as one of his last chances. FX and sound, etc should all be possibly categories as well.
  15. phatdude1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 3
  16. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Sorry but we'll agree to disagree. Heath Ledger is the only post death Oscar win that was practically a full year after his death and the movie he was in 6+ months old. The short term sympathy vote time period was long over, however he did such an amazing job he won anyways despite only 3 ever prior post death nominations and only 1 before ever won (and the guy died less than a month before). The Oscars are for making careers, not honoring the dead... yet Heath broke all the odds due to his sheer overpowering acting that blew everyone else in the movie away. You can claim his death was the reason but his death having so much of an impossible challenge still beat the odds, greatly implying it was far more than his meer death that earned him the win but instead his sheer brilliance of his method acting in the role actually deserving the win.

    As to RotK, I said as such. It won best picture due to all three films and it being the final one. It doesn't negate the point though that it isn't impossible for a franchise to win best picture. Plus how can it be a once in a century win with less than a centuries worth of oscars... jumping to conclusions there a bit hmm?

    My post was entirly about saying it isn't impossible these days for an unexpected franchise film to win in the big 6 catagories (best film, director, actor, actress, supporting actor, supporting actress). Nothing more, nothing less. You read far too much into my statement.
    Last edited by Ryus, Nov 22, 2013
  17. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    I'm not sure the ST will be up for winning any serious awards until they bring in serious award winning filmmakers... and let's face it, if ANH and TESB can be ignored (in the big categories) then what chance did the PT have and what chance does they ST have? Award jury's are a funny lot and science fiction/fantasy and horror are often ignored... therefore films from those particular genres have to be exceptional to get noticed ('exceptional' in terms of filmmaking or popularity with audiences). Lucas has largely been a Hollywood outsider - something that I'm thankful for... but he WILL get the lifetime achievement awards in the next couple of years I'm sure... which is a shame because I believe artists should receive the accolades from peers whilst they are still making films and not when they are dead or retired.

    As far as The Dark Knight is concerned - lightning in a bottle, largely helped (unfortunately) by Ledger's death. The Lord of the Rings - great source material... and it certainly has its serious prose and its drama... but even then I'm not sure it warrants the amount of awards it achieved (especially if we benchmark it with/against the accolades the OT achieved).

    Bottom line - awards are largely meaningless and by no means a measure of a films worth... and award ceremonies (panels) often reward their own (which is not particularly diverse/wide group). It's mostly a backslapping celebration of 'industry' and not of 'art'.
    Last edited by Darth PJ, Nov 23, 2013
  18. ScorpionJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 2
    To be honest, I don't really care if it wins an Oscar or not at this stage. I'm more concerned about whether Abrams, Kennedy & Co. can do all the heavy lifting to get Star Wars out from the hole The Phantom Menace sent the franchise to. They should be focused on winning back the critics and audiences the franchise lost with the prequel trilogy.

    At this point in time Star Wars VII is winning in terms of hype, excitement, box office potential and curiosity for 2015. That could all go downhill if we don't get a good script and story which won't divide fans any further than it already has.
  19. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    Star Wars already has the biggest Oscar statue, his name is... C-3P0. :p In all honesty, who cares? I think that these movies are fun popcorn movies, not serious films. Just remember who does the voting within the Academy.
  20. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    It could possibly get a few more nominations than the prequels, but not in the big categories. These movies just aren't "serious" enough for that. I could see it winning for visual effects and maybe something to do with makeup, costumes, and/or sound, although I would also love it of course if Williams could grab some more wins or at least nominations which he didn't even get for any of the prequels.
  21. mavjade It's so Fluffy Fanfic & New Movies Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    As a few others have said, I think it's possible to get VFX, score, make-up, costume etc. type awards, but in general SW isn't the type of movie that gets Best Picure or the big actor awards. Things could change, of course, but I seriously doubt it.

    Personally, that isn't something I look for in a movie, there have been award winning movies I've loved and some I've hated. Awards don't really mean all that much to me, though I guess I will admit it's nice when something I'm passionate about wins. ;)
  22. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    I don't think they have to worry about "winning back audiences" as the prequels were massively popular and brought a new generation to Star Wars.
  23. ScorpionJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 2
    I was referring to the group of people who walked out crying from The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.
  24. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    @phatdude1138, I agree with you that award shows are crap. It's hardly ever about "the best" anything but about who Hollwyood is going to "pump" as their latest "new big thang." Very political so you hammered the nail on the head -- George Lucas was a maverick who pissed off a lot of bigwigs in Hollwyood and they got back at him repeatedly.

    Will the ST win other awards than music or special FX? I doubt it. Even if JJ or someone directs the best possible movie for that year there will always be some secret, behind the scenes machinations (read M O N E Y) buying a little gold statue for someone else.
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  25. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    Yep, but I think that has been more than made up for by the amount of new fans the prequels have garnered. Things move on... people fall in and out of love etc.
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