Chic, IL Will the trilogy ever be the same again?

Discussion in 'Mid West Regional Discussion' started by Fisting_Furbies, May 24, 2005.

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  1. Fisting_Furbies Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    I'm now finished with my 3rd viewing of ROTS and I can't decide if I like it because I'm too distracted with the trilogy as a whole. I grew up watching the originals, like the average fan, and then divulged into the new ones as they came out. But the recent person I saw the movie with started with TPM and has only seen the first 3. I mean she knows what happens in the originals, but she hasn't seen them.
    But my greatest fear since I first found about the prequels is that the originals will lose everything that makes them great.

    I mean if you started off watching the new ones intstead of the old ones~

    -you don't get a good as an explanation of the force as offered in ANH, you kind of just have to figure it out in TPM on your own

    -Finding out that Vader is Luke's father is no longer as shocking and tormenting to Luke as it was in ESB

    -After watching Yoda fly around mid-lightsaber battle, you are no longer awed when he lifts that X-Wing out of the swamp in ESB

    -After watching ROTS, then you are no longer surprised when the Emperor unleashes his power in ROTJ

    -You'll always be wondering why R2-D2 isn't jumping around burning stormtroopers

    -You'll be confused just how Chewbacca went from piggie-backing Yoda, to serving Han

    -you'll wonder why there is no Qui-Gon in the ghost scene of ROTJ, since he was the first to discover the power

    -after finishing ROTS and starting the OT, you'll constantly be hoping that Jar-JAr was not an invention of the OT so you never have to see him again

    However an upside of starting with the PT are~

    -Truly fearing for Obi-WAn in TPM

    -the girl I was with was actually fearing for Yoda when Order 66 was initiated, much to my amusement

    -the disolving of the senate in ANH means more to you

    -the destruction of Alderaan means a lot more

    I mean even though these movies are numbered I,II and III I just don't think watching them in that order for the first time is any way to enjoy the series. I think its always going to be the OT and then you go back to see "prolouge" to the OT.

    Any one else have any comments?
  2. MrShiny Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 1
    -you'll wonder why there is no Qui-Gon in the ghost scene of ROTJ, since he was the first to discover the power

    hhmm, wait for the next dvd?
  3. Master_Logard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    The simplest and most direct answer to your question is no, they will NEVER be the same. Ever since Lucas defiled the OT and did the "Special Edition", the OT we new was gone, never to be released in legal obtainable format again.

    I will continue to see newer versions as they are released, but they will never hold the magic that the OT did in its original format and versions.

    Han shot first.

    I like the ewoks chant song much better than the current version in ROTJ.

    These are just two examples that the SW we all grew up with will NEVER be the same.


    My 2 cents...
  4. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    After several viewings of RotS over the weekend I came home and watched ESB to cleanse the pallet. The biggest effect is the weakening of Darth Vader IMHO. When you look at him now...it's a guy who sold the Kingdom out for a girl....no for galactic domination....no wait...for a girl.....or was it for absolute power....or was it a girl....because the Jedi are evil from a certain point of view.....or was it galactic domination.....no wait, for a girl.

    Vader was a much much more ominous and powerful villian when mystery shrouded his past. You knew he was good, turned bad (real bad)...and then was redeemed. Now you have a poorly constructed "reason" for it.

    Bosh
  5. LanceWS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 1
    I watched ROTS, ANH, ESB, and ROTJ in order over the course of this past weekend. ANH was better than it had been in a long time. Obi-Wan is an improved character knowing his past. Vader comes off as more arrogant than all-powerful. If nothing else ROTS changed the way I look at ANH. That's a good thing. I've seen that movie a million times, but it's more interesting to me now than it has been in years.
  6. Fett402 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2005
    star 3
    I agree with Lance about how ANH means alot more and is now more interesting to watch. You understand alot more of what had lead up to that moment, and how things got to where they were.

    I have alot of discrepencies...so I'll just list the one that I have the most trouble with:

    -- In ROTJ, Leia says she remebers her mother...um HOW THE **** CAN THAT BE? Did her mother not die during child birth? Did I miss something? Is she talking about her mother on Alderaan? Lucas!! --

    Anyone got an answer to this one?
  7. MusicTrooper Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2005
    star 4
    Order of viewing and re-viewing,

    supports the "certain point of view"
    principle, common to both the Sith and the Jedi,
    in the films

    and so , I hope to have multiple points of view,
    depending on the perspective that seems relevant
    at that time.

    film students, study this and of course,
    about when films are re-made....oh, which is
    what Lucas is kinda doing with each new re-edit.

    Great post about how to look at the
    two trilogies and the saga as a whole.

    Ed
  8. midimanipulator Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2005
    star 2
    After watching the ot again, i've decided the prequels are just a "what if" kinda deal (anyone remember the marvel comics series?). They don't count for real. Not for me anyway.
  9. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    I guess it is all a mute point...
    The Prequels are out there...and can't be taken back...

    A few people I know have never seen the original trilogy OR the prequels...and have decided to get into Star Wars....question is....what order do I tell them to watch it in...
    OT first or
    Prequels first?
  10. midimanipulator Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2005
    star 2
    watch the ot. first. lot's of times. Then watch the prequels. They should see it the way we saw it. Plus they will realize how much the prequels just don't jive with the ot.
  11. Master_Logard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    Leia remembers her "mother" on Alderaan, Not Padme. Organa, not Skywalker/Amadala.
  12. MrShiny Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 1
    Unless she dies too, I think Liea would remember more than just "images" of her Alderaan mom.
  13. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Luke specifies "Your real mother."
  14. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    Leia is strong with the force too....
    .she may have imbedded memory from the force....

    that's my story...and I'm sticking to it..
  15. DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    i don't know that EpI and EpII will ever be part of Star Wars for me. I'm gonna start with EpIII.

    to me the saddest things are yoda and the focus & weakening of vader. i don't want him to be a sad figure; i want him to be a bada**. and I don't want yoda to be hopping around and leading an army; i want him to be the peace-loving guru who abhors war.

    oh well.
  16. Fisting_Furbies Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Schph_Gochi, that's exactly what I mean, how do you introduce someone to a series by telling them not to watch the first one...I don't think I'd ever suggest that anyone start their star wars experience with episode 1. The PT just doesn't have the "magic", the wonder, the awe that the OT has. And I know people will cry foul and say that is just because I grew up on the old ones and blah blah blah. But from a storyteller's point of view there is no way you can say we got a better explanation of the Force in the MIDDLE of TPM fron Qui-Gon, then the one we got at the BEGINNING of ANH Obi-Wan. I mean I'd have to think viewers would be confused as hell watching Qui-Gon and Obi-WAn tear up the place and throw around these robots with hand gestures. I mean even in the first 3 lines of TPM they make a reference to the Force, without ever explaining what it was.

    I this is where Lucas went wrong. IF he wanted it to be a story told about Anakin and the series starts with TPM and then goes chronologically, then he needed a movie that explains the Force, lightspeed, lightsabers, etc etc. To me the PT is all about Obi-Wan and shows you what he is talking about in ANH, and the OT will always be about Luke to me. But then I was never much of a Vader fan, or Anakin for that matter.
  17. MusicTrooper Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2005
    star 4
    ref

    "how do you introduce someone to a series"

    Ask if they would like to start at the beginning,
    and if so,

    then a good case can be made for STAR WARS
    starting in 1977.

    Ed
  18. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    It is a difficult decision.....

    We, as a whole, look at Star Wars in the perspective that we began our journey....
    in the middle of the story...

    do we force our perspective on the un-initiated?

    I really don't have an answer on that.....

  19. Lt_Dak-Ferris Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2003
    star 3
    This was posted by someone else somewhere . . .

    In the comic book version of ROTS, Leia has her eyes open when Padme names her, Luke does not.

    This, combined with Leia's force abilities which somehow allow her to remember things as a newborn, explain her memories of her real mother.
  20. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    I think Lucas not caring about continuity explains her memories of her real mother.

    Though honestly I don't blame him. He obviously wasn't writing the prequels out in his mind when he wrote the bridge scene for RotJ.

    Stuff like this is just an irritant to fans who buy into the story that Lucas had an entire 9 movie script plotted out in detail. Face it, he didn't even know Vader was going to be Luke's father until the thought popped into his mind sometime afterwards. He certainly didn't have the prequels written out when making the OT. He only had one movie's worth of story lined up for the PT anyway stretched thinly out into 3 films. If anyone thinks he has 7, 8 & 9 plotted out somewhere in his little red book, I'd beg to differ.

    Anyway, instead of tying up some of the tiny inconsistancies (which can be easily geeked out with comic book explainations I suppose) he took the more logical route...Padme dies during childbirth. Otherwise he's gotta come up with some complicated scenario as to how and why Leia would remember her mother, which normally would mean that Padme would be around, and recognized as her natural mother for at least 3 or 4 years.

    There was rumor that they were going to set it up so that Padme would hide out as a hand-maiden for Bail Organa's wife so she could watch over Leia (like Moses mama). Would have been better than losing the will to live.

    Bosh
  21. Hazmatt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    Agreed. Losing the will to live is lame.

    One thing that just hit me..."General Kenobi, you fought with my father in the Clone Wars"....Wha!? Bail Organa was a senator and never picked up a blaster. He was just hanging out in the Senate trying to stop the fighting. Again, Lucas was pulling the prequels outta his butt.

    It's funny, because Leia does make a true statement, it's just about Anakin, not Bail. And of course, everytime in the OT that C-3PO says "Thank the Maker", I picture Vader now.
  22. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    didn't Leia say...."you served my father during the Clone Wars"...
    as Bail was a Senator for the Republic...

    ...and it was the Army of the Repbulic....

    it would therefore follow that Obi-Wan did indeed "serve" Bail...

    yes?

    or am I remembering the quote wrong?
  23. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Ha, me and Dartha were just talking about that last night. I said, it's like saying General Tommy Franks served under Ted Kennedy.

    Also, "The Clone Wars" is a stupid name for the war now that we see the context of it. It's like calling WWII "The Ally Wars"

    If you think these movies have affected the OT, let's see what the TV Series is going to do to it. Looks like it's well set up already. They cut Mon Mothma out of the movie (I'm guessing so they can hire a crappy TV actress for the show. And obviously they threw in that whole reversing the becaon code so that at least a few select Jedi (the star/s of our new show maybe) will have an opportunity to live for a few years helping the Rebellion get off the ground...before being killed by Boba Fett during sweeps week.

    D'
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    After you watch the prequels, you are supposed to keep watching the classic trilogy.

    You don't need or even want everything explained twice, it's supposed to work as one single 12-14 hour movie.
  25. Hazmatt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    "it's supposed to work"

    Exactly. Too bad it doesn't.

    Also, Yoda's "Begun the Clone War has". From what I am aware of, wars don't get named until long after they are over. The Gulf War was Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm. The Korean War was a "police action". And most Americans don't realize that World War II started years before December 7, 1941.

    Bosh is right, calling what we saw on the screen a "Clone War" is stupid. By that token, it was also The Droid War.
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