Will the trilogy ever be the same again?

Discussion in 'Chicago, IL' started by Fisting_Furbies, May 24, 2005.

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  1. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Yikes. I can't believe you let a few lines like that ruin your enjoyment of an entire series of films.


    "One thing that just hit me..."General Kenobi, you fought with my father in the Clone Wars"....Wha!? Bail Organa was a senator and never picked up a blaster. He was just hanging out in the Senate trying to stop the fighting. Again, Lucas was pulling the prequels outta his butt."

    That's not the correct line. Leia says that Obi-Wan served her father in the Clone Wars. Bail was a senator in the Republic, and Obi-Wan was a general in the Army of the Republic. Obi-Wan served the Republic, and thus Organa. There is no discrepancy.

    *gasp* That's one less "mistake" made by Lucas. Let's go nitpick something else so we can even the score.
  2. Hazmatt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    Says "Mr. I Can't Listen to the Music 'Cause it will Ruin The Whole Movie".

    No, those few lines don't ruin it. Well, by themselves. They are symptoms of a larger problem, i.e. poor writing. When Lucas did "Phantom Menace", he wrote himself into a corner and started down a storyline that made the actions of the last 30 minutes in ROTS chaotic. The story ended up being written because certain things had to happen to connect to Episode IV, not because they made a good story or were particularly interesting.

    And although Dave spelled out in his post further up the page, I'll reiterate. Saying Obi-Wan served Senator Organa in the Clone Wars is like saying Colin Powell served Senator Obama during the Guld War (if Obama had been in office then). While it may in a round-about way be true (from a certain point of view, Leia?), it's not really accurate. Obi-Wan served the Jedi Council in the Clone War (Clone Wars?) and the Supreme Chancellor. Colin Powell served the 3rd Army (I think...maybe 6th?) in the Gulf War and President Bush.
  3. DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    maybe her father told her to say that, as a sly reference to their time together on the tantive, and the plans they set with yoda?

    like, "okay, it's time old man, wake up and join the fight, and bring luke."

    i agree the line is a slight continuity flaw, but it doesn't ruin it for me.
  4. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Sorry Sithy, but "served" in ANH implies they were up to their knees in rice paddies, with guns that didn't work! Going in there, looking for Charlie, slugging it out with him! While P****** like you were back here partying, putting headbands on, doing drugs, and listening to ***DAMN BEATLE'S ALBUMS!

    Bosh
    "SAY IT!! SAY IT!!"
  5. zionprime Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2005
    NO, the trilogy will never be the same again. Mainly because characters who were mysertious, cool and fan favorites have been ruined in the prequils. Also, the series as a whole was dumbed down by the prequils.

    Anakin Skywalker: the horrible acting and quick script format to accomidate fx & action really didn't do him justice. Anakin turning to the dark side was just not believable. It was understood that Anakin is Darth Vader in the original trilogy so he has to become evil in the prequils. Even though some of his reasons were touched, it was touched in passing. Those of us who have been redeemed from such dark natures or those who still are in such dark natures knows that his transormation into Vader was not just underplayed, but it was so unbelievable that it ruins the entire series.

    Boba Fett: a carbon copy of a cool character who not only had a dumb death, but had so much potential that it was destroyed with the ending of "Attack of the clones". For the past 20 years, Fett was a great and masterful mystery who made you think that he could do just about anything. Boba Fett was Star Wars's answer to Batman. Finding out that he's nothing more than a clone who watched his DNA doner die in front of him was a rip. Boba is just a clone. & what's worse, is that there should still be a bunch of Fett clones running around in the original series [all of they could not have been killed or destroyed from "Revenge of the Sith" to "Return of the Jedi". So Boba could easily have a bunch of "kids" running around out there; the children of the clones from episodes 2 & 3.

    Chewbacca: what the Sam Hill? Why was he even in episode 3? It doesn't make any sense! If he's able to fight in a war like this & is in his prime, then there's no way any one would believe that Han Solo saved him & has a life debt owed to him. Lucas already linked the prequils & originals with R2 & 3PO.

    Kenobi: he went from reluctant uncle in episode 1, to father in episode 2, to nerdy older brother in episode 3. [I don't mind his grandfather role in the original trilogy because that was cool.] His relationship with Anakin was shotting @ best. McGregor is such a good actor & Lucas just squandered his talents.

    Jar Jar Binks: this character, this species, brought Star Wars to a ghetto kindergarden. Everyone, even kids, loved the original trilogy because it was smart. It was whitty. The prequils introduced an end to loveable dialogues and new characters with the Gungans. The only good thing about the Gungans is that you can shoot them & rob their bodies in "Star Wars: Galaxies".

    Yeah, the action was great. Yeah, the fx was awesome. Yeah, there were some good parts. But, they weren't enough. The bad acting and weak scripts are like finger nails on a chalkboard. So, the series won't ever be the same. Even my goddaughters, 10 & 8, don't like episodes 1 & 2. They perfer the original trilogy because, according to them, "They're just better."
  6. DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    if there is ever needed any definitive proof of lucas' unerring desire to sell toys, BK kids meals, etc. through his movies, Chewbacca in Episode III is it.

    i liked the movie, but it does play like a Greatest SW Hits, and you know Lucas and his marketing minions were frothing at the bit to get up all those snazzy posters with Vader, Yoda, Chewie, 3P0, R2, etc.

    "lookit! it's star wars! just like you remember it! all the classics from your youth!"
  7. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    Sorry...but for me...seeing Chewy was one of the few "moist eyes" moments I had....it was great to see him again...and make the connection to the OT....
    Chewy is an awesome character....reading some of the novels also expanded him past "furball" status...and just because he IS big and bad doesn't mean that someone couldn't get the "drop" on him.


    Which only goes to prove, once again, .....we all see things differently....
  8. Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    No, I think that's exactly the point we're were trying to make. Why make a great movie when they can just stick Chewy in there for 2 minutes.

    Bosh
    "Oooh look! The Falcon!"
  9. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    but for many....
    they rank ROTS as their #1 favorite (not me, however)....
    so for some people....ROTS ISa great movie....
    [face_worried]
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Personally I think the 6 film saga is better than either trilogy on it's own.

    While certain surpises are lost in the classic trilogy (Vader is Luke's Father, Yoda is really Yoda, or as others here have said, the Emperor has force lightning), what is gained by knowing what happened to Anakin while watching Luke on his journey more than makes up for that IMHO.

    Asking if the classic trilogy will ever be the same again is like asking if ANH will ever be the same after seeing ESB. At first Vader was just this bad guy in a black suit, after ESB, he was Luke's father all along.

    As far as those of you who are suggesting Chewie was put into ROTS to sell toys, that has to be one of the most ridiculous conclusions I have seen on these boards in recent memory. Chewie has always been a fan favorite since ANH. Lucas didn't have to put him into ROTS to sell more Chewie toys.

    There is not one minute thing in any of these movies that hasn't been turned into a toy.

    If you guys think these new movies are devoid of substance, or are even just a shameless attempt to sell toys, then I don't think you are actually putting any effort into looking at these movies. I just don't see how a thinking human being can just jump to that conclusion when if anything, the prequels give the classic trilogy more substance.
  11. Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    I'm with you on that Go-Mer
    :)
  12. MusicTrooper Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2005
    star 4
    I agree with go-mer, that,

    prequels give the classic trilogy more substance

    Ed

  13. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Fisting_Furbies: You don't get a good as an explanation of the force as offered in ANH, you kind of just have to figure it out in TPM on your own.
    />
    Fisting_Furbies: Finding out that Vader is Luke's father is no longer as shocking and tormenting to Luke as it was in ESB.
    />
    Fisting_Furbies: After watching Yoda fly around mid-lightsaber battle, you are no longer awed when he lifts that X-Wing out of the swamp in ESB.
    />
    Fisting_Furbies: After watching ROTS, then you are no longer surprised when the Emperor unleashes his power in ROTJ.
    />
Fisting_Furbies: You'll always be wondering why R2-D2 isn't jumping around burning stormtroopers.
/>
this, the droid booster rockets R2 sports during the prequels have gone out of warranty by the time the classic trilogy rolls around. Even if you didn't see this EU bit, a little creativity could have supplied you with a million reasons why R-2 doesn't use rockets in the classic trilogy. All you have to do is not stop at "this makes no sense".
Fisting_Furbies: You'll be confused just how Chewbacca went from piggie-backing Yoda, to serving Han.
/>
Fisting_Furbies: You'll wonder why there is no Qui-Gon in the ghost scene of ROTJ, since he was the first to discover the power.
/>
Fisting_Furbies: After finishing ROTS and starting the OT, you'll constantly be hoping that Jar-Jar was not an invention of the OT so you never have to see him again.
/>
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#38
  • Schph_Gochi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 4
    And if anyone wants to know the story of how Han and Chewie got paired...

    Read the "Han Solo Trilogy" (The Paradise Snare, The Hutt Gambit, and Rebel Dawn) by A.C. Crispin.....
    ;)
  • DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    okay, so Chewie's in ROTS to bring warm fuzzies to the fans...which inevitably makes them want to run to the stores to buy the new Chewie figure, Chewie Lego set, and Chewie brand beef jerky.

    same difference. and I'm saying that as someone who LIKES ROTS at the end of the day.

    Right...but Lucas has gotten far more shameless in his pandering to the marketing and the merchandising of his movies.

    Yoda is on Kashyyk (sp) to get him off Coruscant so that Anakin/Vader can ransack the temple without the ugly story complication of him having to smack down the most powerful Jedi in the Order. (obi-wan's chasing grievous for similar reasons--he can't be in the temple or on coruscant when anakin goes crazy.)

    Why does Yoda HAVE to go to Kashyyk? he doesn't. it's a story device.

    so sending him to the wookiee planet, THEN having him coincidentally hang with the most famous wookiee ever, is a little shameless to me. and whether it's direct shameless (check out chewie! buy this toy!) or indirect shameless (check out chewie! feel warm fuzzies! buy this toy!), it's still shameless.

    lucas has been making every effort he can to tie this trilogy in with the OT, and sure, they're the same story. but it's also marketing that he has NEEDED as the films have been revealed as essentially weak to awful movies and he's had to play upon the public's sentimental attachment to the first three, awesome movies to get butts in the seats.

    again, I say all this as someone who LIKES ROTS.

    and I could just as easily say that I just don't see how a thinking human being can sit through the unmitigated pile of stinking dog s*** that is TPM, or the limp and lifeless snoozefest that is AOTC, and actually LIKE those movies, which I hate.

    i DON'T say that--never have, because lots of my friends like the prequels, and they're all smart, nice, sensible folks (except dave, although he hates the prequels too). which is why I personally avoid unnecessary generalizations or attacks on the reasonable opinions of others.
  • Hazmatt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    because I love Jar-Jar

    And that is why you fail.
  • DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    i will say that I wouldn't kick jar jar out of bed for eating crackers, if you take my meaning, and i KNOW y'all do.
  • Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Who's the stars of the Cingular ads? Who's the stars of the Frito ads? It aint Anakin, it aint Aayla Secura, it aint Darth Maul or even Jar Jar....it's Chewy, Vader & Stormtroopers......icons that people appreciate. Dooku is obviously a more important character than Chewbacca in the prequels, but obviously no one outside of the core fan-base gives a crap about Lee's character...Cingular knows it, and Lucas knows it. Why do you think there weren't any fast food tie-ins for AotC?
    TPM had the fact that it was the "new" Star Wars giving it the hype engine prompting it's marketability to Taco Bell and Pepsi. RotS had not only "the last" Star Wars...but being directly tied to the actual franchise that the general public cares about and recognizes was license for exploitation.

    Lucas didn't put Chewbacca in there for "us" he put Chewbacca in there for Cingular and Burger King, and for Joe-Average Gen-X'r who wont remember who Count Dooku is 10 minutes after he walks out of the theater, but remembers who Chewbacca is...and would think it's cool to download that new ring-tone.

    I like RotS too, but don't deny that marketing department didn't get to be script consultants on these films.

    Bosh
    "Board Trolls! You know they're still shipping them over here. They put'm in cars, they put'm in yer TV, they put'm in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears, they even put'm in watches, they even have teeny message board trolls for our watches!!!"
  • MusicTrooper Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2005
    star 4
    Bosh wrote,

    Chewy, Vader & Stormtroopers......icons that people appreciate

    and this sounds very much like Dave's Wookie fan film,

    which I would glady help out on,

    especially if I had the opportunity to visit Austin, Tx.
  • DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ed, is it really worth a trip to austin to feel so filthy?

    i've "starred" in a few of dave's "films." trust me. it's not fun.
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    From where I sit the story seems to come first, then the toy companies buy the rights to make toys out of everything in the story.

    Whether its Chebacca or whatever.

    I think Chewie was put in there to help Yoda so it would make sense that Obi-Wan trusts him when he goes looking for transportation to Alderaan.
  • Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    I must have missed the trust building scene between Obi-Wan and Chewbacca.

    Bosh
    "Chewbacca, meet Obi-Wan Kenobi."
  • Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Obi-Wan and Yoda had plenty of time to talk through the Force while they were learning from Qui-Gon. Certainly Yoda would have mentioned Chewbacca's help at some point.

    The only reason you missed this is because it's supposed to happen in your mind.

    You can't blame Lucas for that, you are the one dropping the ball here.
  • DarthAstuart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    are you a real person? seriously?

    you honestly think that in the twenty-odd years that Yoda and Obi-Wan had to chat about this, that, and the other, that Yoda would have said, "Way the by. A cool Wookiee I did meet. Chewbacca, his name is. Fly with him on a smuggler ship, you should, if an opportunity you should have."

    besides, we have no evidence to suggest that Yoda and Obi-Wan can or do chat at all during those twenty years. i'm sure the EU will change this right quick, however.

    as apologist claptrap to cover up plot holes, that takes the cake, my man!
  • Bosh_Talk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2000
    star 4
    Right, I missed typing up some imaginary fan-boy script that never happened. How short-minded of me. Maybe you should post this on the Fan-fic boards...since that's what it is.

    BTW, Sidious doesn't really die at the end of RotJ, he totally fakes it using the Dark Side of the Force so that everyone thinks he's dead, then Moff Jerjerrod gets him off the Death Star II in a troop transport. I mean why would Lucas kill such a cool character off? I mean Vader turned good, so you don't need to kill Sidious. It'll all tie in in Episodes VII, VIII & IX. You'll see.

    Bosh
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