Rogue One Will they survive? / Couldn't someone have lived?

I didn't really give it any thought at the end about wanting someone to live and make it through. The end as it is is so well done as Jynn and Cassian die with the fantastic score and visuals, thats its almost like a false ending before it cuts to the exhilarating ending of Vader and rushing the plans off the ship.

I like the film as it is with them all dying, it adds weight to the story and it doesn't take the easy way out and have the main 2 heroes liiving happily ever after, thats a brave move for a blockbuster.

 

I do kind of think the way Bodhi dies in particular feels a bit cheap, like they're trying to figure out how to knock everyone off one at a time. But I have no problem with the artistic choice of no one making it out alive.

 

I think Monk really highlighted main drive of the film here and arguably what gives it weight beyond some other war films were some/all characters die without as much dramatic buildup.

For me way too much of the recent analysis of Star Wars(especially on Youtube) has tended to focus on the wish fulfilment/power fantasy aspect of the story, I would argue in an effort to play to modern audiences who've experienced a lot of this in the currently dominant superhero genre. That's why I'd say ANH tends to be the focus of there analysis and indeed was the obvious target for Abrams to draw strong influence from but even in that case I think a lot of analysis(and TFA) is ignoring greater depth to the characters. Luke for example doesn't just dream of being a hero but also reflects the counter culture rejection of conformity leaving his mundane roots AND rejecting a career with the establishment Empire in favour of a more spiritual path and becoming politically involved.

By ESB and ROTJ I think moral drama even clearly takes centre stage and Rogue One draws its style much more closely from these films. That Jyn's story isn't one of revenge on Krennic but rather a shift towards a selflessness is I think very much inline with those films. Right from the start we see the route of her cynicism is the view that her mothers death was meaningless and indeed I think its quite deliberate that whilst he achieved more Galen's death itself was also without direct meaning and even Jyn's death doesn't come with the knowledge of certain success but rather personal fulfilment

 

In real life, many soldiers die like Bodhi. It is way more tragic than the heroic deaths of all others.

So in my point of view, Bodhi had the most realistic death of the Rogue One crew. He had one second to realize he was going to die.

 

Speaking as someone who's witnessed a bit of violent conflict, it was an incredibly realistic and gut-wrenching scene. Whether or not scenes work sometimes depends on our personal experiences, and this is probably a good example of that.

He achieved his part of the mission and died for it. For me, it was perhaps the most effective of the deaths.

 

To be clear, I'm not disputing the reality of it or even how it fits into the theme. Just the way it was cut, perhaps, or maybe its place in the story, drew attention to the artifice for me.

 

It may be because it happens immediately after he manages to communicate with the Rebel Fleet. Purpose fulfilled. Dead. I can see how that might come across as contrived.

 

Yes, I think you may be right.

 

I'll say it again that it's hilarious that in a year of tremendous amounts of celebrity deaths, the highest grossing domestic film of 2016 was one where literally everyone dies.

 

If they had survived we would have heard no end to the Rey is the offspring of Jyn non-sense. Something I for one am glad they squashed!

 

I'm not sure if this has already been addressed in this thread or not:

When the Alliance troop carriers and Blue Squadron entered through the Scarif shield gate (before it closed), was there any realistic prospect they could ever return?

IIRC, the shield gate station (and the planetary shield) were eventually destroyed to make a clear reception of the Death Star plans possible, but the return options of the surviving Alliance fighters wasn't really of anyone's concern?

To say it in Leia's words in ANH: This is some rescue. When you
came in here, didn’t you have a
plan for getting out?

 

It looked to me like the shield was still present over the planet, at some point after the gate was destroyed. You have the same blue glow high above the edge of the atmosphere, that you see when the Rebel Fleet arrives.

I would guess that the station only projects a small part of the total shield.

 

The whole operation was high-risk and highest stakes, and I'm sure those rebels knew that when they went in. But as the poet wrote, "Hope springs eternal in the human breast." I'd imagine if they had time to contemplate the situation they'd think, "I don't know how we're going to get out of this one" and if asked they might respond, "I don't know, we're making this up as we go."

Speculating, the shield system was designed to keep attackers outside, so attackers inside might be able to destroy the shield generators or emitters and escape when the shields dropped. As it turned out, they were too busy fighting the TIEs, AT-ATs, and troops to have time to escape before they were all destroyed.

Given a month to plan, the rebels would probably have come up with a better plan, but the whole battle was improvised as it happened. Chaos worked in their favor that day. IOW, the Force was with them.

 

It could just be a production mistake I spose, I think it is inferred that the citadel tower is generating at least part of the shield with those sluice gates we see letting seawater flow though to presumably generation hydro electric power? Its not mentioned in the film but I'd seen it suggested elsewhere that Scarif did have some shipyards elsewhere on the surface so perhaps they had generators as well?

 

moreorless12 wrote

I think it is inferred that the citadel tower is generating at least part of the shield with those sluice gates we see letting seawater flow though to presumably generation hydro electric power?

Interesting, when I saw the large dish on top of the citadel tower it reminded me of the deflector shield dish on Endor in ROJ, so I thought they'd be providing the orbital station with enough energy transmissions to create that planetary shield (IMHO, the station looked way to small to do that on its own).

Using seawater to generate hydro electric power was my first thought, too, but somehow I can't imagine that the Empire would really use environmental friendly technologies (not to mention the little energy yield).

I think they rather used all the seawater to harvest deuterium from it (much like these hydro rigs in Oblivion) as a reactant powering the nuclear fusion reactor (and/or cooling that) that probably provides the energy for the planetary shield.

 

That would make sense as if you think about it the sluice gates wouldn't work like a normal dam would they as the pit would just fill with seawater with no outflow, I spose it could potentially be both if the water was harvested and hydropower in the right situation is actually a relatively cheap option. You could argue Vader's castle might be drawing power from the lava flow under it as well and in both cases the advantage of that would be less need for supplies in a location you want to keep low profile.

Scarif I think generally makes more sense if you consider it to be a bit of a secret location(at least its terms of its true nature), basically the new order within the Empire hiding its shady projects away from the eyes of the senate.

 

I definitely agree with you, especially re: "they're not in the OT so they had to die." (or "none of them were at the medal ceremony, we didn't see them on endor" etc... while they could've easily been in the background and we could've learned that through some novel or comic later on). IMO these reasons for killing them are so stupid. Plus, i kind of hate this notion (i got it from one of Gareth's interviews) that the only way to be completely heroic is by achieving something first (in their cases: saving the rebellion and saving the galaxy) and then dying. Yes, they complete the mission (some die not knowing whether the plans got transmitted)... Why would any of them surviving make their actions any less heroic? Also, are we meant to believe that these characters weren't worthy of something more than just death? Was this really the best ending for them, or at least for some of them?

I would've honestly loved to see Jyn and Cassian survive, i always thought they could've found a way to get away from Scarif together (even though we're already been warned in the movie, as audience, that Bodhi is their only way out of there, for some reason). If i were to choose another character surviving, it would've been Bodhi too. The three of them were really young and deserved to live longer. I sense that a lot of people will disagree with me on all of this, but that's how i feel. And i think LF could've made even more money on these characters (if anyone had survived) from various future novels, comics, etc. Maybe even movie sequels? I think they made a huge mistake. Don't get me wrong, i think their deaths have huge impact and it fits well within the movie (RO is still my favorite after TESB), but... i wish some of them had lived.

Anyway, I love this post and it sums up well how i feel about this topic ("did they really need to die?"), so i recommend it.

 

The shift in the focus of the film relative to the OT away from the grand heroic character towards more rank and file characters did I think make a greater mortality a more realistic outcome, I mean there's no lack of Rebel deaths in the original films is there?

More specifically though to me Jyn just feels written to die to the degree I was not at all surprised when it happened. The characters whole story revolves around dealing with the deaths of friends/family that seemed pointlessly in the name of the cause, ultimately overcoming that cynicism, committing to the cause and then dying herself whilst achieving it and validating the previous deaths makes dramatic sense to me.

 

I think all of them dying served a couple of purposes.

One being the obvious, that it would result in endless and unnecessary debate about what happened to any of the potential survivors and where they were during the OT. It was supposed to be a self contained movie, and it was.

And two, in a way, it sort of preserves ANH as being the starting point for all of what we know as SW. I think there is something to be said for that. Had anybody from the Rogue One crew survived, it could possibly taint that a bit, just by adding too much to what is already an origin story, and thus making it less an origin story and more a mere continuation of the events in RO. Not that ANH or anything else that happens in the SW universe isn't a continuation of previous events, obviously. But from purely a cinematic point of view, versus the in universe story point of view, I think it would have meddled too much with how we see ANH.

 

For me, almost nothing is as heroic as a character choosing to "do the right thing", to do the necessary thing, knowing full well that the odds are against them, and that they very well may not succeed, probably will not emerge unscathed, or may not make it through at all. Rogue One powerfully shows us this, repeatedly.

I differentiate this from the more common heroic trope - also inspiring, mind you - of the hero "charging into danger". You can argue, of course, that they are very similar, but I don't think they are the same. Many times, the hero is portrayed as the one who continues to believe the good guys can win, when everyone else has given up hope. And like I said, that is inspiring too. However, I think that is very different from a character who knows a thing needs to be done, even if the odds of success are low or the odds of making it through are slim.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a sadist - or would that be masochist?... I didn't WANT the Rogue One crew to perish. Just saying that I found the distinct tone of Rogue One made it stand out, elevated it, made it really moving, and inspiring.

 

Amen. That’s why Jyn’s second speech/ pep talk on the way to Scarif is so powerful. “We’ll take the next chance, and the next, on and on until we win, or the chances are spent.” They all knew the chances were slim. But they did the right thing anyway. It’s an old heroic warrior spirit. The equivalent of the spirit of the Rohirrim in Lord of the Rings. From the Two Towers (book):

Gamling: Too few have come. We cannot defeat the armies of Mordor. Theoden: No we cannot. But we will meet them in battle nonetheless.

That’s Rogue One in a nutshell.

 

Just watched this movie again for the first time in probably four, five, or six months and I'm reminded again that having them all die definitely makes this a much better film in the end (and a much more meaningfully story to the Star Wars universe. The heroic sacrifice tale definitely makes this movie funner to go back and re-watch and like many others have already said as well having any of these characters survive wouldn't have fit very well with the OT.

You could possibly accept their absence for most of ANH because they would have likely been allowed to rest but then you would always get into that scenario of why weren't they at the medal ceremony when they would have deserved medals every bit as much as Luke and Han did. They possibly could have weaved a story in there that neither Jyn or Cassian wanted to be praised on stage (as they both seemed like individuals who would prefer staying in the background) but at the same time they would be pulling some obvious strings to explain why they weren't at that medal ceremony nor even mentioned during it.

Maybe (and this is a big maybe) you could accept their absence from ESB because that movie was mainly about Vader trying to track down Luke. However by that point Cassian and Jyn would have been higher up within the Rebellion than Han was so you would think they would have been around to some degree.

By the time of ROTJ though there is no way you could accept their absence. The mission on Endor would have been more suited to Jyn and Cassian than it would have been for Han.

 

I, for one, am very much in favor of everyone having died, because they were part of the Rebel Alliance and traitors take them away.
Though I also would have accepted them escaping to, say, Alderaan.

 

they all had to die if makes the whole suicide mission of theirs more important with out the sacrifice of all involved the empire would still rule the galaxy